No Brexit Extension

[i_ateallthepies]

I think it counts as promoting Hedge Funds.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Slightly subjective but there is some.merit that not being in the EU procurement strategies has helped get vaccines more quickly too.

More than a bit naughty saying it's why we've approved the vaccine though.  Interesting to see who's right and who's wrong in that argument.

[drfchound]

Farming subsidies are now to be paid on the environmental efforts farmers make rather than the amount of land they have. Maybe we will see some hedge rows coming back?

Myself and some friends planted two sizeable hedgerows on Sunday morning.

[wilts rover]

Slightly subjective but there is some.merit that not being in the EU procurement strategies has helped get vaccines more quickly too.

More than a bit naughty saying it's why we've approved the vaccine though.  Interesting to see who's right and who's wrong in that argument.

Possibly, but it is only through us still following EU rules and thus having access to the EU clinicals trials data that we were able to certify the vaccine so quickly.

https://twitter.com/G_Boccaletti/status/1334451638552190977

[wilts rover]

Farming subsidies are now to be paid on the environmental efforts farmers make rather than the amount of land they have. Maybe we will see some hedge rows coming back?

Myself and some friends planted two sizeable hedgerows on Sunday morning.

It would be nice to think so, although as the vast majority of land that is farmed is owned by people who don't make their money from farming (James Dyson, Duke of Westmister etc) then I guess it won't make much of difference to them anyway. Maybe of hound does it for free and then they claim the money?

It was disapointing that they are still allowing the destruction of grouse moors though. How many more floods will it take to realise the best way to stop flood water running off the hills is to keep it there.

Well done hound (and friends) btw.

[Not Now Kato]

At last, some good news for a change....
 
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_20_2346?fbclid=IwAR3qeMycWoiQ0fa5Y7O9qy1VPZlU4sgpbTWkPywW31jwtoBOyPlfFSysEOI

[Axholme Lion]

Farming subsidies are now to be paid on the environmental efforts farmers make rather than the amount of land they have. Maybe we will see some hedge rows coming back?

Myself and some friends planted two sizeable hedgerows on Sunday morning.

I will be planting a native hedgerow in the next couple of months. I get the bare root ones from a nursery in Essex. The last one I did was a mixture, the birds loved it.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

At last, some good news for a change....
 
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_20_2346?fbclid=IwAR3qeMycWoiQ0fa5Y7O9qy1VPZlU4sgpbTWkPywW31jwtoBOyPlfFSysEOI

Political will makes deals. Still would surprise me if they don't agree a deal, they will want to make it look like a win but a win with a done deal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As far as I can see, this "deal" announced today is nothing more that the UK agreeing that we will actually stick to the treaty that we signed in January, and not break international law.

What a f**king charade...

[Glyn_Wigley]

At last, some good news for a change....
 
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_20_2346?fbclid=IwAR3qeMycWoiQ0fa5Y7O9qy1VPZlU4sgpbTWkPywW31jwtoBOyPlfFSysEOI

We'll know if it's good news or not when they bother to tell the rest of us the details.

[Not Now Kato]

As far as I can see, this "deal" announced today is nothing more that the UK agreeing that we will actually stick to the treaty that we signed in January, and not break international law.

What a f**king charade...

Agreed.  And when I posted the link on another forum, (maggotdowners - a fishing forum),  as a positive the immediate response was....
 

As long as the EU keep their word.

You couldnt make it up!
 
Oh, and it seems that if you disagree with the 'Brexiteer Masses' then they use a 'deter' function in their forum software to deliver rediculously slow responses to deter people from posting.   

Meanwhile they are happy for people on there to post things like "migrants should be shot on the beaches and at the airports". Seriously!

[BillyStubbsTears]

We really are through the looking glass NNK, when the UK Govt today finally agreeing that it will abide by an agreement that it signed to massive fanfare 14 months ago is touted as a great breakthrough. An agreement that will require goods going from GB to Northern Ireland having customs checks, despite Johnson insisting through the General Election campaign that it wouldn't. If we don't hold to account politicians who deceive people like this, I don't know where we go.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Almost beyond belief that with a few days left and 4 and a half years gone since the Brexit vote, we are still in this situation.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1336633624825827330

It was ALWAYS so obvious. There is no way that we get tariff-free access to the Single Market without signing up to stick to the same rules that the rest of the countries in the Single Market play by.

Surely everyone can see that? If we get a preferential situation, whereby we get all the benefits of staying in the SM, while having the right to ignore future rules in the SM, the SM immediately ceases to exist. Because why would any other country accept anything less that we have? Why should they have to stick to the rules to get the benefits if we don't? Then the whole concept of a SINGLE market evaporates, if every country opts into what it wants and out of what it doesn't want. So the European countries were NEVER going to let us have a deal like that.

Christ, the logic is so simple, a bright 6 year old could follow it. But it's been ignored and pushed aside for 4.5 years. And now here we are. We either accept that reality, or a far harder one will smack us in the face.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And meanwhile, that odious little shite Gove was on the radio this morning being asked about the consequences of him agreeing yesterday that we wouldn't break International Law. The interviewer pointed out that the result of the agreement he made yesterday was that, as everyone was saying back 12 months ago - Johnson was a liar. he had insisted that there would be no customs checks in the Irish Sea between GB and NI. And the interviewer said to Gove, isn't it now finally agreed that goods going between GB and NI WILL have to be checked?

And Gove, that consummate bullshitter and deceiver, replied, "No...ah...ahh...it IS the case that goods travelling between NI and GB will not require checks."

Absolute 10 storey t**t of a man. Look at what he did there. And ask yourself how debased you have to be to allow yourself to be guided by a deceiving bas**rd like that.

[TommyC]

Almost beyond belief that with a few days left and 4 and a half years gone since the Brexit vote, we are still in this situation.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1336633624825827330

It was ALWAYS so obvious. There is no way that we get tariff-free access to the Single Market without signing up to stick to the same rules that the rest of the countries in the Single Market play by.

Surely everyone can see that? If we get a preferential situation, whereby we get all the benefits of staying in the SM, while having the right to ignore future rules in the SM, the SM immediately ceases to exist. Because why would any other country accept anything less that we have? Why should they have to stick to the rules to get the benefits if we don't? Then the whole concept of a SINGLE market evaporates, if every country opts into what it wants and out of what it doesn't want. So the European countries were NEVER going to let us have a deal like that.

Christ, the logic is so simple, a bright 6 year old could follow it. But it's been ignored and pushed aside for 4.5 years. And now here we are. We either accept that reality, or a far harder one will smack us in the face.

Is it not slightly disingenuous to portray our current negotiating position in that way? I don't doubt that the Brexit dream may very well have been sold to the public on the basis of how easy it would be to have all of the benefits (access to the Single Market being a big one) with none of the commitment to the EU project. But surely the negotiation is slightly more nuanced than that in these final stages of discussion.

My understanding is that we're asking for something similar to the free trade agreement that the EU offered to Canada. The EU I believe have historically confirmed that such a deal would be possible - I don't have it to hand but I do recall Barnier or someone similar offering that to us many months ago. However is it not the case that the EU have shifted their position on that and they are now only prepared to offer us a deal that is actually manifestly worse than the deal they offered to Canada, particularly on the subject of state aid/subsidies? To suggest our negotiating position as we sit here today is somehow now asking for the earth does seem a little misrepresentative of where the negotiations appear to be. That the EU will only offer a deal that is more onerous on us than one they have done with Canada is entirely their prerogative, (we chose to leave after all!) but I don't agree
with your depiction that the UK are currently the villains in this, no matter how much you believe in the EU project and  disagree with the decision to leave and the reasons behind the vote to do so.

[wilts rover]

Tommy, do you not think our negotiating postion, or at least how we might act after signing a deal, might have been somewhat altered in the minds of the people we are negotiating with once we decided it is fine to break international law 'in a specific and limited fashion'?

And Canada have to follow EU agricultural standards in that deal. Which has actually seen their exports fall:

https://www.ft.com/content/c72634da-2006-11ea-b8a1-584213ee7b2b

[Donnywolf]

Liar Johnson's actual words on the Irish Sea to the DUP Conference in 2018

"Now, I have to tell you that no British Conservative government could or should sign up to any such arrangement," he added.

Mr. Johnson replaced Theresa May as Prime Minister in July and repeated his promise that there would be no border in the Irish Sea.

However, on Thursday, Prime Minister Johnson agreed a new treaty with the European Union that involves a border in the Irish Sea.

[normal rules]

No breakthrough tonight then. Sounds like Sunday is endex.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Almost beyond belief that with a few days left and 4 and a half years gone since the Brexit vote, we are still in this situation.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1336633624825827330

It was ALWAYS so obvious. There is no way that we get tariff-free access to the Single Market without signing up to stick to the same rules that the rest of the countries in the Single Market play by.

Surely everyone can see that? If we get a preferential situation, whereby we get all the benefits of staying in the SM, while having the right to ignore future rules in the SM, the SM immediately ceases to exist. Because why would any other country accept anything less that we have? Why should they have to stick to the rules to get the benefits if we don't? Then the whole concept of a SINGLE market evaporates, if every country opts into what it wants and out of what it doesn't want. So the European countries were NEVER going to let us have a deal like that.

Christ, the logic is so simple, a bright 6 year old could follow it. But it's been ignored and pushed aside for 4.5 years. And now here we are. We either accept that reality, or a far harder one will smack us in the face.

Is it not slightly disingenuous to portray our current negotiating position in that way? I don't doubt that the Brexit dream may very well have been sold to the public on the basis of how easy it would be to have all of the benefits (access to the Single Market being a big one) with none of the commitment to the EU project. But surely the negotiation is slightly more nuanced than that in these final stages of discussion.

My understanding is that we're asking for something similar to the free trade agreement that the EU offered to Canada. The EU I believe have historically confirmed that such a deal would be possible - I don't have it to hand but I do recall Barnier or someone similar offering that to us many months ago. However is it not the case that the EU have shifted their position on that and they are now only prepared to offer us a deal that is actually manifestly worse than the deal they offered to Canada, particularly on the subject of state aid/subsidies? To suggest our negotiating position as we sit here today is somehow now asking for the earth does seem a little misrepresentative of where the negotiations appear to be. That the EU will only offer a deal that is more onerous on us than one they have done with Canada is entirely their prerogative, (we chose to leave after all!) but I don't agree
with your depiction that the UK are currently the villains in this, no matter how much you believe in the EU project and  disagree with the decision to leave and the reasons behind the vote to do so.

Tommy. I think there has been a lot of misrepresenting what a Canada type deal means.

The UK has wanted the letter of a Canada deal, where we get tariff-free access to the SM, but without having to follow all the SM rules. That works for Canada because it only does about 50bn Euros of trade with the EU every year. It would be ridiculous to expect Canada to follow all the SM rules for trade which is only about 5% of all the international trade that Canada does and lss than 1% of the entire EU international trade.

The UK is a totally different case. We do more than half our international trade with the EU and trade with us accounts for over 10% of the total EU international trade. Canada having different standards barely makes a difference to the SM. Us having different standards would fundamentally undermine the principle of the SM.

My reading of the EU suggesting a Canada-type deal 2-3 years ago, was that they were saying we could have tariff-free access but be outside the CU, just like Canada. But they have been consistent from the very start in saying that this would come with the requirement that the UK wasn't free to undercut EU countries by opting out of SM rules. there has never been any question of the EU accepting that and Tory politicians bewilderedly saying "Why can't they let us have a deal like Canada?" meaning why can't we have tariff-free access and not stick to the rules is disingenuously playing the domestic audience.

And now we are finally at the crunch. Johnson knows there is no way the EU will budge on that. So either he backs down or we leave with the No Deal that was never discussed in 2016, and that only a minority of the country have ever supported.

And, apparently, that is the sacred will of the people and anyone who questions it is a traitor to democracy.

[IDM]

To plagiarise a football chant..

“4 and a half years, and you f**ked it up”..!!

[normal rules]

Our friends in the EU are currently insisting that if they pass a new law in the future with which we in this country do not comply or don't follow suit, then they want the automatic right to punish us and to retaliate.

they are saying that the UK should be the only country in the world not to have sovereign control over its fishing waters.

Who in their right mind would accept the above? And whilst we do not make the most of our own quota currently, it’s the principle that is key, not the waters or fish.

We’ve got some short term pain coming. I think that was always the case. Deal or no deal.
Regarding food supplies, I won’t be paying through the nose for overinflated french foie gras from Waitrose next year. I’ll settle for some British bred chicken livers instead.
And I’ll be taking Camembert and Gouda of my cheese board and sticking to cheddar.

[Filo]

As far as I can see, this "deal" announced today is nothing more that the UK agreeing that we will actually stick to the treaty that we signed in January, and not break international law.

What a f**king charade...

Thats Gove doing what he does best, distancing himself from the shit show and sharpening his knives

[bobjimwilly]

Regarding food supplies, I won’t be paying through the nose for overinflated french foie gras from Waitrose next year. I’ll settle for some British bred chicken livers instead.
And I’ll be taking Camembert and Gouda of my cheese board and sticking to cheddar.

What about Salad (90% comes from Mercia during winter months), Cheddar Cheese (>95% of imported cheddar comes from EU), Citrus Fruits - the list goes on.

40% of food and drink consumed in the UK eithers comes from the EU or passes through the EU. Basically you're being naive as fcuk if you think your weekly shop isn't going to be negatively effected.

[normal rules]

And so it begins......

The Eu commission have now published this today. A sense of panic ?

While the Commission will continue to do its utmost to reach a mutually beneficial agreement with the UK, there is now significant uncertainty whether a deal will be in place on 1 January 2021.

The European Commission has today put forward a set of targeted contingency measures ensuring basic reciprocal air and road connectivity between the EU and the UK, as well as allowing for the possibility of reciprocal fishing access by EU and UK vessels to each other's waters.

The aim of these contingency measures is to cater for the period during which there is no agreement in place. If no agreement enters into application, they will end after a fixed period.

President von der Leyen said: “Negotiations are still ongoing. However, given that the end of the transition is very near, there is no guarantee that if and when an agreement is found, it can enter into force on time. Our responsibility is to be prepared for all eventualities, including not having a deal in place with the UK on 1 January 2021. That is why we are coming forward with these measures today”.

The Commission has consistently called on all stakeholders in all sectors to prepare for all possible scenarios on 1 January 2021. While a “no-deal” scenario will cause disruptions in many areas, some sectors would be disproportionately affected due to a lack of appropriate fall-back solutions and because in some sectors, stakeholders cannot themselves take mitigating measures. The Commission is therefore putting forward today four contingency measures to mitigate some of the significant disruptions that will occur on 1 January in case a deal with the UK is not yet in place:

Basic air connectivity: A proposal for a Regulation to ensure the provision of certain air services between the UK and the EU for 6 months, provided the UK ensures the same.

Aviation safety: A proposal for a Regulation ensuring that various safety certificates for products can continue to be used in EU aircraft without disruption, thereby avoiding the grounding of EU aircraft.

Basic road connectivity: A proposal for a Regulation covering basic connectivity with regard to both road freight, and road passenger transport for 6 months, provided the UK assures the same to EU hauliers.

Fisheries: A proposal for a Regulation to create the appropriate legal framework until 31 December 2021, or until a fisheries agreement with the UK has been concluded – whichever date is earlier – for continued reciprocal access by EU and UK vessels to each other's waters after 31 December 2020. In order to guarantee the sustainability of fisheries and in light of the importance of fisheries for the economic livelihood of many communities, it is necessary to facilitate the procedures of authorisation of fishing vessels.[/b]

I get the top three which have nothing to do with any one specific sector, but I think I know what the govt will say about fishing. They are wanting continued access for another year! The French have clearly spoken. Perhaps they thought we would yield at the last moment. They move the goalposts once again to try to suit themselves.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Political bluster. I'd be stunned if no compromise appears.

However I do actually see the point campsall makes. The point of brexit was to move independently of the EU whether you like it or not. That is something the government is clearly sticking to.  What BOTH parties should realise is that it doesn't have to be the extreme ends of the spectrum.

[normal rules]

Regarding food supplies, I won’t be paying through the nose for overinflated french foie gras from Waitrose next year. I’ll settle for some British bred chicken livers instead.
And I’ll be taking Camembert and Gouda of my cheese board and sticking to cheddar.

What about Salad (90% comes from Mercia during winter months), Cheddar Cheese (>95% of imported cheddar comes from EU), Citrus Fruits - the list goes on.

40% of food and drink consumed in the UK eithers comes from the EU or passes through the EU. Basically you're being naive as fcuk if you think your weekly shop isn't going to be negatively effected.

I’m unsure where your stats are from but the likes of cathedral city and all of Asda’s own cheddar is made in Great Britain using British milk. A few years ago dairy crest farms who were the single biggest cheese producer in the uk, were bought out by Canadian owned Saputo, one of the biggest dairy producers in the world.
There are vast amounts of cheddar made in this country. More than enough to keep us fed.
 In 2018 we produced 465,000 tons of the stuff.

[drfchound]

Our friends in the EU are currently insisting that if they pass a new law in the future with which we in this country do not comply or don't follow suit, then they want the automatic right to punish us and to retaliate.

they are saying that the UK should be the only country in the world not to have sovereign control over its fishing waters.

Who in their right mind would accept the above? And whilst we do not make the most of our own quota currently, it’s the principle that is key, not the waters or fish.

We’ve got some short term pain coming. I think that was always the case. Deal or no deal.
Regarding food supplies, I won’t be paying through the nose for overinflated french foie gras from Waitrose next year. I’ll settle for some British bred chicken livers instead.
And I’ll be taking Camembert and Gouda of my cheese board and sticking to cheddar.

You would think that some people want us to roll over and show our underbelly wouldn’t you.
The EU was never going to make our leaving easy but the real blame is with the leave voters.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Fisheries: A proposal for a Regulation to create the appropriate legal framework until 31 December 2021, or until a fisheries agreement with the UK has been concluded – whichever date is earlier – for continued reciprocal access by EU and UK vessels to each other's waters after 31 December 2020. In order to guarantee the sustainability of fisheries and in light of the importance of fisheries for the economic livelihood of many communities, it is necessary to facilitate the procedures of authorisation of fishing vessels.[/b]

I get the top three which have nothing to do with any one specific sector, but I think I know what the govt will say about fishing. They are wanting continued access for another year! The French have clearly spoken. Perhaps they thought we would yield at the last moment. They move the goalposts once again to try to suit themselves.

You really don't understand it, do you? This is about an extra grace period to get the damn thing sorted out if an agreement isn't reached soon. Notice the word 'reciprocal' at all? We can still fish in their waters too under this! But I suppose you'd rather they weren't flexible about extending the negotiations and we just crashed out instead.

[normal rules]

And what at the end of 2021? Still no agreement. 4.5 yrs and nothing. What’s difference will another year make?

[pib]

I have to admit to not knowing all about the politics of it, but as a business owner who sends products to NI, ROI and Europe on a daily basis, this Brexit malarkey is proving to be a massive pain in the arse, to put it politely.

If taking back control means added costs, long delays, a truckload more complicated admin and faffing around and a big dose of uncertainty then it looks as if we're getting all the control we wanted.