Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 08:45:37 am

Login with username, password and session length

Links


FSA logo

Author Topic: No Brexit Extension  (Read 90298 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

MachoMadness

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 5982
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #750 on August 04, 2020, 12:35:13 pm by MachoMadness »
That's exactly what it is. Blaming "the fine print" because he knows it'll play well to the gallery. If there is fine print, we're supposed to have the country's top lawyers and diplomats checking it over, so what difference does it make?



(want to hide these ads? Join the VSC today!)

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3034
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #751 on August 04, 2020, 03:16:11 pm by Not Now Kato »
At last, a real benefit of Brexit - the Government has come up with a plan to make it really easy to export good to the EU....
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/enforcing-operation-brock-plans-in-2021/proposed-legislative-amendments-on-enforcing-operation-brock
 
It's going to be just as easy as Levers were promised....
 
Quote
Being border-ready means that an HCV driver is carrying all the necessary documentation to get through the GB and EU port (or has been provided with the appropriate information to get the documentation).
This includes:

    customs documentation:
        a master or movement reference number (MRN) from an import declaration if the goods are going to stay in the country of disembarkation (for example, goods going from GB to France), or a transit accompanying document if the goods are either staying in the country of disembarkation or going to move beyond it (for example, goods going from GB to Spain via France)
        an admission temporaire/temporary admission (ATA) carnet if the goods are temporarily going abroad (for example, goods going from GB to France and then back to GB)
        a transports internationaux routiers (TIR) carnet if goods are sealed and/or going to non-Common Transit Convention (CTC) member countries (for example, GB to India overland).

    import and export documentation depending on what goods are carried (it is possible that a free trade agreement or sectoral deal may change some of the requirements for import and export documentation). For example, EU member state authorities will check for the following on arrival at the EU port:
        products of animal origin require an export health certificate
        plant and plant-based products require a phytosanitary certificate
        fish require a catch certificate, export health certificate and where appropriate a captain’s certificate.


Some documentation could be electronic or physical (like the MRN barcode) while others would need to be physical (like the ATA carnet). Please note that the list is not exhaustive; for more information, please refer to the Border Operating Model published on 13 July 2020.
In addition, there may be other forms of import/export documentation that an HCV driver will need to carry on behalf of their trader which would not be checked at the ports. An HCV driver using the accompanied roll on roll off (RoRo) route would need a safety and security declaration before arriving in the EU. However, EU rules mean that they can be completed shortly before arriving in the EU.
Some EU member states have additional national requirements for goods arriving from GB, for example:

    France requires the use of the SI Brexit system, and the MRN barcodes for multiple consignments must be compiled in to a single ‘envelope’ MRN that will be scanned
    the Netherlands and Belgium require that all movements are pre-notified using the Portbase and RXSeaport systems respectively; HCVs that are not pre-notified will not be allowed to leave Dutch or Belgian ports

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #752 on August 04, 2020, 11:03:50 pm by SydneyRover »
Brock is a perfect name it can be used in many contexts such as it's brock, it's f**king brock, it's really f**king brock  :)


Glyn_Wigley

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 11963
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #753 on August 04, 2020, 11:56:47 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
At last, a real benefit of Brexit - the Government has come up with a plan to make it really easy to export good to the EU....
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/enforcing-operation-brock-plans-in-2021/proposed-legislative-amendments-on-enforcing-operation-brock
 
It's going to be just as easy as Levers were promised....
 
Quote
Being border-ready means that an HCV driver is carrying all the necessary documentation to get through the GB and EU port (or has been provided with the appropriate information to get the documentation).
This includes:

    customs documentation:
        a master or movement reference number (MRN) from an import declaration if the goods are going to stay in the country of disembarkation (for example, goods going from GB to France), or a transit accompanying document if the goods are either staying in the country of disembarkation or going to move beyond it (for example, goods going from GB to Spain via France)
        an admission temporaire/temporary admission (ATA) carnet if the goods are temporarily going abroad (for example, goods going from GB to France and then back to GB)
        a transports internationaux routiers (TIR) carnet if goods are sealed and/or going to non-Common Transit Convention (CTC) member countries (for example, GB to India overland).

    import and export documentation depending on what goods are carried (it is possible that a free trade agreement or sectoral deal may change some of the requirements for import and export documentation). For example, EU member state authorities will check for the following on arrival at the EU port:
        products of animal origin require an export health certificate
        plant and plant-based products require a phytosanitary certificate
        fish require a catch certificate, export health certificate and where appropriate a captain’s certificate.


Some documentation could be electronic or physical (like the MRN barcode) while others would need to be physical (like the ATA carnet). Please note that the list is not exhaustive; for more information, please refer to the Border Operating Model published on 13 July 2020.
In addition, there may be other forms of import/export documentation that an HCV driver will need to carry on behalf of their trader which would not be checked at the ports. An HCV driver using the accompanied roll on roll off (RoRo) route would need a safety and security declaration before arriving in the EU. However, EU rules mean that they can be completed shortly before arriving in the EU.
Some EU member states have additional national requirements for goods arriving from GB, for example:

    France requires the use of the SI Brexit system, and the MRN barcodes for multiple consignments must be compiled in to a single ‘envelope’ MRN that will be scanned
    the Netherlands and Belgium require that all movements are pre-notified using the Portbase and RXSeaport systems respectively; HCVs that are not pre-notified will not be allowed to leave Dutch or Belgian ports

The Government hasn't come up with anything. These are exactly the measures that anyone who knows about this kind of stuff knew would have to be re-introduced to import/export traffic once we left the SM/CU. This is what movements to non-EU countries already have to have, all that's happening is that all the EU countries are going to be joining them after December 31st. If anybody thinks this is a surprise (or, even more ridiculously, an EU plot against Britain!) then they haven't been watching properly.

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #754 on August 26, 2020, 12:03:02 am by SydneyRover »
The barrel has been scraped and ...............

EXCLUSIVE: Former Oz PM Tony Abbott to be Britain’s new joint President of the Board of Trade in major revamp. Forthright Aussie to “bang the drum for Brexit Britain around the world” in shock signing:
Ex-Australian PM Tony Abbott to be unveiled as Britain’s new trade deal supremo as Brexit deadline...
EX-AUSTRALIAN Prime Minister Tony Abbott is to be unveiled as Britain’s new trade deal supremo, The Sun can reveal. The forthright Aussie has been appointed joint President of Britain’s relaunched …
thesun.co.uk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT9XS_TvzQ

Glyn_Wigley

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 11963
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #755 on August 26, 2020, 11:23:48 am by Glyn_Wigley »
The barrel has been scraped and ...............

EXCLUSIVE: Former Oz PM Tony Abbott to be Britain’s new joint President of the Board of Trade in major revamp. Forthright Aussie to “bang the drum for Brexit Britain around the world” in shock signing:
Ex-Australian PM Tony Abbott to be unveiled as Britain’s new trade deal supremo as Brexit deadline...
EX-AUSTRALIAN Prime Minister Tony Abbott is to be unveiled as Britain’s new trade deal supremo, The Sun can reveal. The forthright Aussie has been appointed joint President of Britain’s relaunched …
thesun.co.uk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT9XS_TvzQ

So the British Government is too useless to be able to negotiate trade deals.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #756 on August 26, 2020, 07:37:13 pm by wilts rover »
The barrel has been scraped and ...............

EXCLUSIVE: Former Oz PM Tony Abbott to be Britain’s new joint President of the Board of Trade in major revamp. Forthright Aussie to “bang the drum for Brexit Britain around the world” in shock signing:
Ex-Australian PM Tony Abbott to be unveiled as Britain’s new trade deal supremo as Brexit deadline...
EX-AUSTRALIAN Prime Minister Tony Abbott is to be unveiled as Britain’s new trade deal supremo, The Sun can reveal. The forthright Aussie has been appointed joint President of Britain’s relaunched …
thesun.co.uk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT9XS_TvzQ

So the British Government is too useless to be able to negotiate trade deals.

So they have appointed someone who has never negotiated a trade deal in his life to do it. But he is a misogynist racist. Yep, sounds right.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #757 on August 26, 2020, 11:49:48 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Just a little aside.

All those people who supported Brexit because "we were told is was just a Common Market but never that it would be a political union." I wonder where they got that idea from.

Have a look at the things that were discussed about the EEC in the 60s and 70s.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1297949374291628033

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #758 on August 28, 2020, 02:49:01 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
So, 4 months on Tuesday, we leave the Single Market and Customs Union.

Good to see that we are well prepared for the consequences.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-08-27/u-k-starts-research-on-brexit-customs-system-due-in-four-months?__twitter_impression=true

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3034
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #759 on September 01, 2020, 04:23:53 pm by Not Now Kato »
On Thursday 20th July 2017 Liam Fox said that a post-Brexit free trade deal with the EU will be the “easiest in human history.”

On Tuesday 1st Sept 2020 No 10 blames the EU and plays down prospects of any Brexit trade deal whatsoever.....  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/01/no-10-blames-eu-and-plays-down-prospects-of-brexit-trade-deal

But you don't have to worry, Tony Abbott will be joining Liz Truss on the front lines....

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #760 on September 02, 2020, 12:27:12 am by SydneyRover »
Remember johnson in Myanmar as acting foreign Secretary, Abbott has roughly the same amount of respect for culture and about the same amount of tact.

https://www.facebook.com/ehusic/photos/a.563951906974693/3322435441126312/?type=3&theater

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #761 on September 02, 2020, 11:37:28 am by SydneyRover »
Does anyone have any idea what the strategy with negotiations with the EU is? we seem to be totally unprepared for the consequences of no-deal which are fairly obvious to most including the EU and yet at this late stage still playing the brinkmanship card.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #762 on September 02, 2020, 12:51:02 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
As far as I can see, our approach appears to be that we want a preferential trade deal, along with the right to opt in or out of various agreements on environmental, social, workers' rights and product standard agreements.

And the EU's position is, you can have a trade deal that includes agreement on all those standards or you can have no trade deal.

Our negotiators are regularly briefing the press that this is utterly unfair from the EU and that we deserve something better.

But that raises a question. Why on earth is the EU not giving us precisely what we ask for? Johnson, Gove, Davis Grayling, Fox, Farage and a string of others unequivocally told us in 2016 that these would be the easiest negotiations ever. That we held all the cards. That the EU would come crawling on its knees to give us whatever deal we wanted. That the negotiations could be completed in a few weeks. That the German car industry would threaten to run Merkel down if she didn't sort out a deal with us.

Hey. Here's a thought! You don't think that set of career-long liars and bullshitters might have been lying and bullshitting in 2016 do you?

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #763 on September 02, 2020, 01:22:32 pm by SydneyRover »
The plan is either really really cunning or it's a crock and here's the thing, if it is the most cunning plan and we get the best deal then the money being invested in preparations to date for no deal is a waste and if it's a crock then the preparations don't appear to be enough. Go figure.

idler

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10681
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #764 on September 02, 2020, 01:47:50 pm by idler »
No politician so far has given any indication of being capable of carrying out bargaining or agreeable strategy. Add to this a lack of direction from the upper tier of government and it was never going to be easy. I suppose that you can also add that any civil servent involved in any way will be the one getting any blame rather than the MPs or Ministers.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #765 on September 02, 2020, 03:47:08 pm by wilts rover »
Does anyone have any idea what the strategy with negotiations with the EU is? we seem to be totally unprepared for the consequences of no-deal which are fairly obvious to most including the EU and yet at this late stage still playing the brinkmanship card.

Run it down to the wire. Tell your base that you are not going to cave in to unreasonable demands by the EU, they need us more than we need them, it will be their fault if there is no deal etc.

Then cave in at the last minute to all their demands, tell your base that this is what you wanted all along and what a fantastic deal it is you were able to negotiate and what a great country we are going to be by following all the laws we shall not be setting and we have too many fish to catch ourselves so its good the French can come and catch as many as they like.

Which is pretty much what happened in negotiating the Withdrawal Agreement.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #766 on September 02, 2020, 03:56:40 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Wilts.

I think that's a fair prediction.

You missed out a key part of that strategy though, which is to agree to key aspects of the EU requirements and then deny to the UK public that you have done. Like, for example, the need for customs checks between GB and NI.

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3034
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #767 on September 03, 2020, 12:12:26 pm by Not Now Kato »
Everyone, leaver or remainer, should be signing this if they believe in and want a sovereign state.  It won’t change the result, but it should help protect our future voting processes from foreign interference – if indeed any such has happened, but we have a right to know.
 
 
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/332293
 


SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #768 on September 03, 2020, 12:38:55 pm by SydneyRover »
Thanks for the link Kato

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #769 on September 03, 2020, 01:12:35 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Remember johnson in Myanmar as acting foreign Secretary, Abbott has roughly the same amount of respect for culture and about the same amount of tact.

https://www.facebook.com/ehusic/photos/a.563951906974693/3322435441126312/?type=3&theater

Dear God up above.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1301406437458038784

"Mr Hancock, Benito Mussolini was a war-mongering Fascist. Why are you making him Commissioner for Railways?"

Hancock: "Err, well...err, I don't...err, well he made the trains run on time."

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3034
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #770 on September 03, 2020, 02:32:58 pm by Not Now Kato »
Anyone who voted Tory in the last election should hang their heads in shame foisting this lot of incompetents on us!

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #771 on September 03, 2020, 03:56:22 pm by wilts rover »
Remember johnson in Myanmar as acting foreign Secretary, Abbott has roughly the same amount of respect for culture and about the same amount of tact.

https://www.facebook.com/ehusic/photos/a.563951906974693/3322435441126312/?type=3&theater

Dear God up above.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1301406437458038784

"Mr Hancock, Benito Mussolini was a war-mongering Fascist. Why are you making him Commissioner for Railways?"

Hancock: "Err, well...err, I don't...err, well he made the trains run on time."

Yes but at least Mussolini DID make the trains run on time.

Abbotts proposal for a UK-EU deal would violate WTO rules!

https://twitter.com/CoppetainPU/status/1301433742368665600

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #772 on September 03, 2020, 08:03:41 pm by drfchound »
Anyone who voted Tory in the last election should hang their heads in shame foisting this lot of incompetents on us!






In your opinion.
I didn’t vote Tory by the way.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #773 on September 03, 2020, 08:15:32 pm by wilts rover »
At last some good news about how Brexit will help regenerate the economy.

Big contracts for tarmac layers and at least 29 lorry park attendents required:

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1301595671733178373

Janso

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2033
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #774 on September 03, 2020, 08:52:33 pm by Janso »
Anyone who voted Tory in the last election should hang their heads in shame foisting this lot of incompetents on us!






In your opinion.
I didn’t vote Tory by the way.

Just curious, which of the current government, Sunak aside, looks vaguely competent to you?

Filo

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 29821
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #775 on September 03, 2020, 08:55:50 pm by Filo »
Anyone who voted Tory in the last election should hang their heads in shame foisting this lot of incompetents on us!






In your opinion.
I didn’t vote Tory by the way.

Just curious, which of the current government, Sunak aside, looks vaguely competent to you?

Sunak is only carrying out orders, remember his catch phrase, we will do whatever  it takes for as long as it takes.

He’s about to throw thousands off the edge of a cliff ending furlough


Janso

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2033
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #776 on September 03, 2020, 09:00:59 pm by Janso »
Anyone who voted Tory in the last election should hang their heads in shame foisting this lot of incompetents on us!






In your opinion.
I didn’t vote Tory by the way.

Just curious, which of the current government, Sunak aside, looks vaguely competent to you?

Sunak is only carrying out orders, remember his catch phrase, we will do whatever  it takes for as long as it takes.

He’s about to throw thousands off the edge of a cliff ending furlough

Well I did say "looks"...

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #777 on September 03, 2020, 09:33:48 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Sunak did absolutely the right thing in March. That was good to see, but shouldn't have been a surprise. Finance Ministers the world over were doing similar.

The fact that we were all euphoric about it speaks volumes about Tory Chancellors' records on NOT doing the right thing in the past.

Government financial policy in and advanced capitalist economy should be very straightforward. You act as a balance to the private sector. When the private sector is booming, you increase taxes or cut Govt spending to stop the economy overheating and crashing. When the private sector is struggling, you increase Govt spending or slash taxes to keep the economy ticking over.

It really isn't rocket science.

But look at the track record of Tory Chancellors over the past half century.

1973 - Anthony Barber made massive increases in Govt spending in an already buoyant economy. Inflation exploded and we tipped into the crash of 1974-5.

1981 - Geoffrey Howe increased interest rates and slashed Govt spending in a recession, resulting in the most brutal economic collapse since the 1930s and 4 million on the dole.

1988 - Nigel Lawson gave massive tax cut giveaways in an already booming economy. Inflation took off and we collapsed into the 1990/91 recession.

2010 - George Osborne's insane Austerity after the Great Financial Crash throttled our recovery for 3 years and gave us the worst decade for increases in wages since the Napoleonic Wars.

All those cases are established economic facts, and you'll find very, very few serious economists who would say anything other than that they were disastrous mistakes, caused by going against the most fundamental economic principles. (There are one or two who still support the Howe and Osborne cuts, like Patrick Minford - his policy is that we should always cut Govt spending, and he's been perfectly frank in saying that would result in the "managed decline" (read "devastating collapse") of any industry that we have left. He was the driving force behind the economic experiment that Howe and Thatcher implemented in 1981, which fatally damaged British Industry and caused carnage in the economy for 18 months before the quietly binned it and kicked him out. He claims to this day they didn't cut hard enough, and given that the cuts they DID put through stuck 4 million on the dole, presumably he reckons that wasn't enough.)

The one and only Tory Chancellor to get it right in that 50 years was Ken Clarke in 1993, who reflated the stagnant economy in classic textbook economic fashion and got us sensibly growing (giving Blair a comfortable inheritance in 1997).

So yes, Sunak in March was a pleasant surprise. But his job has barely begun. The real test is how he gets the economy going again. We'll see about that, but him talking already about balancing the books ain't promising. You do not balance the books in a recession. You can't. You spend like hell and THEN balance the books when the private sector is booming.

PS: A bit of background here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/budget_99/budget_briefing/279928.stm

Every one of the devastatingly bad decisions by British Chancellors in the 1900s was made by a Tory Chancellor, with the exception of 1931, when the Chancellor and PM were nominally in the Labour party, but in reality, were leading a Tory Govt.

Makes you think why it is that Labour are the ones who received wisdom tells us are no good on the economy...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 11:46:09 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #778 on September 03, 2020, 09:59:41 pm by drfchound »
But if Sunak does spend like hell wont the Labour people start saying that the National Debt has soared and slate the Tories for allowing that to happen.
Also, if Sunak is only riding to orders as suggested by Filo, then surely the furlough scheme was ordered by Johnson.

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: No Brexit Extension
« Reply #779 on September 03, 2020, 10:13:34 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Hound.

We went through this in March.

I made a bet that no-one on the Labour side would criticise Sunak for massively increasing the debt because it was correct economics.

Have you heard anyone make that criticism on the Labour benches?

Compare and contrast with the shameful, shameless, wrong and deeply damaging line that the Tories took in 2009, screaming Deficit Deniers when Labour (correctly) ran huge deficits in response to the GFC.

I suspect your gut reaction will be that I'm playing politics. But I'm not. If that was my intention, why would I support what Sunak has done to date. Just stop and compare the two cases. In both cases the Chancellor did EXACTLY the textbook economic thing. In only one, the Opposition were a disgrace. 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 11:27:48 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2012