Donkeygate

[phil old leake]

Being ridiculous now.  When was the last time any party suggested something that was a good idea and the opposition said  Fxxx me that’s a really good idea
I know it’s never going to happen but I can dream

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Ah, the power of the right wing media and people who are incapable of thinking for themselves!
 
Tell me, those of you who voted Tory, why do you think a proven inveterate liar is a good leader of this country!  Just one good, honest, reason - and knocking anyone in the opposition is NOT a good reason, that's pampering to what you read in the Mail etc!  What credentials has Johnson got in your eyes?

The question is fair, the second point of your question is not.  Look back to the last election and there was a choice between a few options and for many it is a choice of who was the least worst or who matched their Brexit or policy ideas.

What I would say is I am far more likely to vote for a Labour party led by Kier Starmer than a Tory party led by Boris at this stage and there was the problem at the last election, Corbyn and the extremity of some policies chosen, they were not moderate enough for me.  Pretending the opposition was not an issue is sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring the problem frankly.

Let's see what policies the labour party come up with, if they are a little more to the centre than last time and not pushing Brexit they will have a very strong chance of winning.

[SydneyRover]

I suppose it gets back to the hatchet job the msm has done on Corbyn, no he wasn't perfect but if johnson had suffered the same abuse in the media for as long as JC had most wouldn't have wanted either of them. Add to that the compounded lies about the EU and Brexit and you have a perfect storm created by the media, proof just look at what the result is a baffoon in charge of the response to a pandemic with brexit just over the horizon. Those that warned against johnson have already been proven correct and he's only been in charge a few months, anyone want to place any bets about how much control you're going to get or bet on brexit improviing your life?

[Donnywolf]

Johnson could be destroyed by the power of the press (if they wanted that)

Remember Beckham the golden boy who got sent off v Argentina and cost us the game and a real World Cup shot - well the Press turned on him and turned a lot of the people against him - so it can be done easily

Here is an extract for those not familiar

Many, including the team's manager, pinned the loss on Beckham's inability to control his temper. For months he was vilified by both the media and the general public. A newspaper printed a dart board with his face on it, and someone was seen hanging a sarong-clad Beckham effigy outside a London pub.

Speaking to GQ in 2015, Men in Blazers host Roger Bennett said the vitriol was so intense that, "there were murder threats," and, "violence crackled around the grounds whenever he played in games."

So if they want you in they leave you alone - if they dont want you they can try and arrange that

I have noticed also that (and I didnt know) that Kier Starmer has been getting grief for owning a field to be used as a Donkey sanctuary

Yet David Cameron trying to be a man of the working class often said his wife "they tell me" has a field near Scunthorpe somewhere. Very vague. Also when leaving office well Sam tells me she has the field near Scunthorpe so we should be ok

I believe this is what stands on the field or perhaps the field is a separate number of acres

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normanby_Hall

[Donnywolf]

It does say Lincolnshire Council "run" the Estate or dminister it but here is another article showing Sam Cams Dad still uses it - and rakes in 350k a year JUST from a small percentage of the 8 wind turbines he had put up against the wishes of the locals

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/countryside/8716138/Why-Samantha-Camerons-dad-is-stirring-up-a-storm.html

[Not Now Kato]

Ah, the power of the right wing media and people who are incapable of thinking for themselves!
 
Tell me, those of you who voted Tory, why do you think a proven inveterate liar is a good leader of this country!  Just one good, honest, reason - and knocking anyone in the opposition is NOT a good reason, that's pampering to what you read in the Mail etc!  What credentials has Johnson got in your eyes?

The question is fair, the second point of your question is not.  Look back to the last election and there was a choice between a few options and for many it is a choice of who was the least worst or who matched their Brexit or policy ideas.

What I would say is I am far more likely to vote for a Labour party led by Kier Starmer than a Tory party led by Boris at this stage and there was the problem at the last election, Corbyn and the extremity of some policies chosen, they were not moderate enough for me.  Pretending the opposition was not an issue is sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring the problem frankly.

Let's see what policies the labour party come up with, if they are a little more to the centre than last time and not pushing Brexit they will have a very strong chance of winning.

But that's what wrong with many of the electorate who are influenced by the right wing media, Facebook and Twitter that they read.  It shouldn't be about personalities, it should be about policies - but so few people in the country bother to read the Manifesto's published by the main parties, they'd rather get their 'truth' from the media; the media that lies to them consistently!  Anyone who took the time to read the Labour Manifesto would have seen that everything in it was costed out, (ignoring the silly 'everyone gets free broadband' they touted later but was not part of the Manifesto and was a stupid thing to say to try to buy votes!), and the vast majority of it was to the benefit of the country as a whole. Similarly, if anyone took the time to read the Tory Parties Manifesto they will have seen that there was little substance to it and no costings whatsoever! Rather, they relied on Boris' personality and the hatchet job done on Corbyn by the right wing media, Facebook and Twitter 'bots' to sway the easily persuaded that personality was all and what they actually intended to do was irrelevant!
 
And guess what, personality, lies and a hatchet job won through - rather proving my point.
 
You want further proof?  The right wing media and right wing politician posters on twitter have already started their hatchet job on Starmer and the Labour Party!  Nothing changes, the gullible will always be gullible because it's easier than actually thinking!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Couple of points.

1. Just because it was costed out doesn't mean you fundamentally have to agree with it - as has been debated on here many a time and around the time of the election.

2.  A a simple point there about the use of the media etc.  The written press tends to be more right wing, we all agree that.  Isn't that the job of left wing commentators to resolve and become attractive themselves?  Indeed the labour party has managed to do so in the past under Blair etc....  On the social media side, you tend to see what you're interested in quite often, but the labour party has proven pretty good on that side.

[wilts rover]

  Typical of the elitist so called educated lefties who see themselves as better than everyone else and insult people on age as well as intelligence and don't realise why they keep losing elections.
  The labour party became built in their own image, and like them became elitist and aloof and far from the party I knew, voted for and canvased for in my younger days.
   Now it just represents a party of losers, or is that elite losers.
  Starmer is not the problem it is his party members  and supporters that is the problem.
   I thought the op was about the Doncaster Council when I read the heading.

I would be interested to know why you believe people who went to Eton, own several house one of which is often a manor house, have a number of consultancies and non-executive directorships, keep their money in off-shore bank accounts and lead a party that is funded by Russian oligarchs and welcomed in actual fascists are not 'elite'. Is is just the people you mix with?

[wilts rover]

Couple of points.

1. Just because it was costed out doesn't mean you fundamentally have to agree with it - as has been debated on here many a time and around the time of the election.

2.  A a simple point there about the use of the media etc.  The written press tends to be more right wing, we all agree that.  Isn't that the job of left wing commentators to resolve and become attractive themselves?  Indeed the labour party has managed to do so in the past under Blair etc....  On the social media side, you tend to see what you're interested in quite often, but the labour party has proven pretty good on that side.

Blair courted Murdoch, The Sun & Times supported him in all 3 elections. Gordon Brown was a personal friend of Paul Dacre, former editor of the Daily Heil - fat lot of good it did him.

[EasyforDennis]

My own personal opinion for what its worth is that Johnson wont be PM in 12 months time. The powers that be will find a way to get rid of him and I would think health problems would be to the fore. The bad news would be that Michael Gove would be the likely replacement.

[drfchound]

Some people should be careful what they wish for eh.
I wonder whether Starmer would be interested in a free transfer.
It might be his big chance to become PM.

[Bentley Bullet]

It might be his only chance unless he does a Tory Blair.

[phil old leake]

Why do you think Boris will be gone in 12 months

I think apart from a lot of things that were beyond his control he’s looked after the working people of the country in general
His next big problem will be maintaining his election pledges and paying for all the borrowing without going back to austerity

[IDM]

Those working people will eventually see that he is an habitual liar though..

[idler]

Sir Robert DeVereux , the civil servant who has people working until 67 to get their pension is retiring at 61. He is the Secretary of the Department of works and pensions. He has a pension pot of £1.8m. a lump sum of £245,000 and a pension of £85,000 a year.
I have no problem with people working hard for a good pension but that seems obscene especially retiring early after condemning other physical workers the right to receive their pension at 65. I’m sure that he’ll manage for six years until he receives his state pension though.☹️

[Glyn_Wigley]

Why do you think Boris will be gone in 12 months

I think apart from a lot of things that were beyond his control he’s looked after the working people of the country in general
His next big problem will be maintaining his election pledges and paying for all the borrowing without going back to austerity

The response to the virus was completely within his and his government's control. The NHS workers who've died were working people too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why do you think Boris will be gone in 12 months

I think apart from a lot of things that were beyond his control he’s looked after the working people of the country in general
His next big problem will be maintaining his election pledges and paying for all the borrowing without going back to austerity

Phil

Genuine question. What about Johnson's work makes you conclude that he has looked after the working people.

I'm not looking for a fight or an argument. I'm genuinely interested.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Sir Robert DeVereux , the civil servant who has people working until 67 to get their pension is retiring at 61. He is the Secretary of the Department of works and pensions. He has a pension pot of £1.8m. a lump sum of £245,000 and a pension of £85,000 a year.
I have no problem with people working hard for a good pension but that seems obscene especially retiring early after condemning other physical workers the right to receive their pension at 65. I’m sure that he’ll manage for six years until he receives his state pension though.☹️

He's not responsible for increasing the pension age. Policy decisions such as raising the state pension age are made by the government.

[EasyforDennis]

Why do you think Boris will be gone in 12 months

I think apart from a lot of things that were beyond his control he’s looked after the working people of the country in general
His next big problem will be maintaining his election pledges and paying for all the borrowing without going back to austerity

He is the invisible prime minister. OK he has been ill but how many times have we seen him? He gets slaughtered at pmq's and he has hardly handled the covid situation well has he? The public would possibly accept some of the things they have obviously done wrong but it seems that Cummings has issued a directive that nobody is to use the word sorry or offer any kind of apology or acceptance that they made mistakes. Opinion polls have also shown a marked drop in satisfaction ratings in the last 10 days.

[idler]

Ok Glyn, he followed orders and oversaw it. I still think that it’s far too great a pension when you are telling poorer workers that they have to work longer.

[IDM]

Does he get a greater state pension than anyone else when he reaches 67.?

Other work placed or investment pensions would be greater if the person has reached a higher level in their profession, whether a public employee or not.

[idler]

It wouldn’t sit well on my shoulders overseeing this and then taking such a pension on retirement. That is my view IDM. I have no problem with someone earning a works pension, I have one myself. I wonder how hard he has worked to be in this fortunate position?

[IDM]

You have no problem with people taking a works pension, unless they work in the department which oversees the state pension.?

I could understand your argument if senior civil servants got a bigger state pension, or could take it earlier.

Why wouldn’t he have worked hard to reach the top of his profession.?

I value your opinion so it looks like we may have to agree to disagree here..

[Glyn_Wigley]

Why do you think Boris will be gone in 12 months

I think apart from a lot of things that were beyond his control he’s looked after the working people of the country in general
His next big problem will be maintaining his election pledges and paying for all the borrowing without going back to austerity

He is the invisible prime minister. OK he has been ill but how many times have we seen him? He gets slaughtered at pmq's and he has hardly handled the covid situation well has he? The public would possibly accept some of the things they have obviously done wrong but it seems that Cummings has issued a directive that nobody is to use the word sorry or offer any kind of apology or acceptance that they made mistakes. Opinion polls have also shown a marked drop in satisfaction ratings in the last 10 days.

They don't even have to admit making mistakes - all they have to do is say that decisions were made based on the information available at the time, and that they now have newer/better information and that therefore decisions have altered as a result. Everybody would understand that, that's how a government is supposed to operate, especially in a time of fast-moving crises. But no, they won't even do that, they'd much rather treat the public as idiots and lie instead. 'Four legs good, two legs better'!