Track and Trace

[silent majority]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

[SydneyRover]

I just had to google ned?

[ian1980]

So if/when I get a call from a tracer...

Caller: So can I ask who you’ve been in contact with recently so we can tell them to isolate for 14 days

Me: Yes, sure. Mr B Johnson, Mr M Hancock, Mr D Cummings.

[IDM]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

I’m not against it in principle, just worried about the practicalities.. 

[silent majority]

I just had to google ned?

Non Executive Director

In other words not an employee.

[SydneyRover]

Thanks I came up with Scottish hooligan?

[Ldr]

Thanks I came up with Scottish hooligan?

Same description "not an employee" 🤣🤣

[Jonathan]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

I don’t think anybody would deny it’s a difficult system to introduce or that it’s a necessary concept.

I feel any negativity stems from the fact that the PM stood there last week and said that by June 1st we’d have a world beating system in place. It sets expectation. Now just think about what the basics of an effective and fully functioning, never mind world beating, system would require:

- A way of identifying reliable contact information. 
- A strong and credible message of what you must do to isolate and contain the virus.
- Robust enforcement action against non compliance. 

The first part is very challenging, nonetheless essential for an effective or world beating system and it’s not like we haven’t had time to prepare. The second part is utterly f**king simple but has been made absolutely f**king feeble and bordering on impotent by the prioritisation of protecting one man from incrimination over and above clear public health messaging. The third part has now been totally discredited.

Tell me again why you can’t understand negativity. We need this system to work and it’s blatantly not in a position to be effective, yet.

[drfchound]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

The negativity probably fits the rhetoric on here most of the time.

[Jonathan]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

The negativity probably fits the rhetoric on here most of the time.

Do you think it’s ready and as good as it can and should be?

[drfchound]

I have no idea.
As SM has said, T&T works for other countries.

[Axholme Lion]

I do not have a smart phone. It's another step towards big brother.
So what happens if you are told to isolate for two weeks and can't work getting no wages and then on your return to work are told to isolate again because of someone else. No one will take any notice of this.

[SydneyRover]

Here the app was delayed and didn't work on iphones and quite a few hiccups. Still not sure if it's working properly yet, we had a bit of a late start for lockdown and the notorious Ruby Princess stuff up there is not much for it to do. There is not much in the news about it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I just had to google ned?

Non Executive Director

In other words not an employee.

But a shareholder?

As for negativity about T&T, if it had been in place from the start of(or ideally before) lockdown and was able to do the job properly then I'm sure people would have embraced it as a useful tool in the fight against the virus.

As it is, it's looking like a cobbled-together mess being started so late as to be almost an irrelevance, and only being done at all to cover certain people's arses.

[IDM]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

The negativity probably fits the rhetoric on here most of the time.

It’s not only folks on here who have concerns - not sure why expressing concerns means negativity necessarily - a doctor (edit - team leader) was on radio 2 a few minutes ago who is part of the NHS team to implement this, who got the email notifying him to start today, at 21.50 last night.

Whilst he was in agreement in principle with track and trace, the word he used to describe the management and the hurry to implement this scheme was “shambles”..

That’s an team leader involved in delivering the scheme.  Not the rhetoric on this forum.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I have no idea.
As SM has said, T&T works for other countries.

Other countries are run by people who know what they're doing.

[Filo]

It’s obvious this has been rushed forward to try and take the heat off cumgate, it has nothing at all to do with the nations health today, it’s all about deflection, nothing else

[Jonathan]

I just had to google ned?

Non Executive Director

In other words not an employee.

But a shareholder?

As for negativity about T&T, if it had been in place from the start of(or ideally before) lockdown and was able to do the job properly then I'm sure people would have embraced it as a useful tool in the fight against the virus.

As it is, it's looking like a cobbled-together mess being started so late as to be almost an irrelevance, and only being done at all to cover certain people's arses.

It was in place and active before the lockdown, but it was scrapped. The concern is, although it’s clearly been scaled up, it doesn’t seem to have demonstrably progressed in the time in between. And the government’s message, which was commendably strong at the start of lockdown, has been weakened to provide wiggle room for a senior aide.

[SydneyRover]

It was canned because there were too many cases to deal with, code for not enough trained tracing staff.

''Coronavirus: Test and trace system kicks off in England and Scotland

Meanwhile, two MPs said they were told England's system would not be fully operational "at local level" until the end of June''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52829357

[Donnywolf]

I do not have a smart phone. It's another step towards big brother.
So what happens if you are told to isolate for two weeks and can't work getting no wages and then on your return to work are told to isolate again because of someone else. No one will take any notice of this.

... and then there will be a second wave the experts say and millions more wont be able to work again - and they will be the lucky "non dead" ones

[silent majority]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

I don’t think anybody would deny it’s a difficult system to introduce or that it’s a necessary concept.

I feel any negativity stems from the fact that the PM stood there last week and said that by June 1st we’d have a world beating system in place. It sets expectation. Now just think about what the basics of an effective and fully functioning, never mind world beating, system would require:

- A way of identifying reliable contact information. 
- A strong and credible message of what you must do to isolate and contain the virus.
- Robust enforcement action against non compliance. 

The first part is very challenging, nonetheless essential for an effective or world beating system and it’s not like we haven’t had time to prepare. The second part is utterly f**king simple but has been made absolutely f**king feeble and bordering on impotent by the prioritisation of protecting one man from incrimination over and above clear public health messaging. The third part has now been totally discredited.

Tell me again why you can’t understand negativity. We need this system to work and it’s blatantly not in a position to be effective, yet.

That's a different set of goalposts. I was referring to the negativity towards track and trace and not on the credibility of this government.

[silent majority]

I just had to google ned?

Non Executive Director

In other words not an employee.

But a shareholder?

As for negativity about T&T, if it had been in place from the start of(or ideally before) lockdown and was able to do the job properly then I'm sure people would have embraced it as a useful tool in the fight against the virus.

As it is, it's looking like a cobbled-together mess being started so late as to be almost an irrelevance, and only being done at all to cover certain people's arses.

You're guessing now though Glyn, there's no relationship between being a NED and a shareholder.

I agree that it doesn't look great to start with, but if it had been withheld people would be complaining that it's taken too long to implement and are now complaining its being rushed in.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wasn't guessing, I was asking. I'm pretty sure Private Eye said she's a shareholder but I'm not sure which issue it was in.

And T&T shouldn't have been withheld or rushed in. it should have been in place at the same time other countries managed to have it up and running.

[Axholme Lion]

I do not have a smart phone. It's another step towards big brother.
So what happens if you are told to isolate for two weeks and can't work getting no wages and then on your return to work are told to isolate again because of someone else. No one will take any notice of this.

... and then there will be a second wave the experts say and millions more wont be able to work again - and they will be the lucky "non dead" ones

How many times will we be sent home from work on £90 p/week though? The vulnerable should stay indoors and the rest of us should carry on as normal to save the economy. If we all had a couple of weeks on the sick with it we would build up immunity.

[silent majority]

I wasn't guessing, I was asking. I'm pretty sure Private Eye said she's a shareholder but I'm not sure which issue it was in.

And T&T shouldn't have been withheld or rushed in. it should have been in place at the same time other countries managed to have it up and running.

But being a shareholder normally means someone is investing in the company, not taking out 'loads of dosh' as you put it. I have no idea if she has invested in the company, but would it be such a crime if she had? Without some proof it seems that there's a rush to be unduly critical before even contemplating checking basic details.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I wasn't guessing, I was asking. I'm pretty sure Private Eye said she's a shareholder but I'm not sure which issue it was in.

And T&T shouldn't have been withheld or rushed in. it should have been in place at the same time other countries managed to have it up and running.

But being a shareholder normally means someone is investing in the company, not taking out 'loads of dosh' as you put it. I have no idea if she has invested in the company, but would it be such a crime if she had? Without some proof it seems that there's a rush to be unduly critical before even contemplating checking basic details.

She'd be benefitting from the profits the company will make as a result. Do you not see that as a direct conflict of interest - especially when as far as I know there's been no public tender? And when a working version could I'm sure have been bought off-the-peg from whoever created those used by other countries.

[Not Now Kato]

I wasn't guessing, I was asking. I'm pretty sure Private Eye said she's a shareholder but I'm not sure which issue it was in.

And T&T shouldn't have been withheld or rushed in. it should have been in place at the same time other countries managed to have it up and running.

But being a shareholder normally means someone is investing in the company, not taking out 'loads of dosh' as you put it. I have no idea if she has invested in the company, but would it be such a crime if she had? Without some proof it seems that there's a rush to be unduly critical before even contemplating checking basic details.

She'd be benefitting from the profits the company will make as a result. Do you not see that as a direct conflict of interest - especially when as far as I know there's been no public tender? And when a working version could I'm sure have been bought off-the-peg from whoever created those used by other countries.

According to full facts she's not his sister....
 
https://fullfact.org/online/not-dominic-cummings-sister/

[silent majority]

I wasn't guessing, I was asking. I'm pretty sure Private Eye said she's a shareholder but I'm not sure which issue it was in.

And T&T shouldn't have been withheld or rushed in. it should have been in place at the same time other countries managed to have it up and running.

But being a shareholder normally means someone is investing in the company, not taking out 'loads of dosh' as you put it. I have no idea if she has invested in the company, but would it be such a crime if she had? Without some proof it seems that there's a rush to be unduly critical before even contemplating checking basic details.

She'd be benefitting from the profits the company will make as a result. Do you not see that as a direct conflict of interest - especially when as far as I know there's been no public tender? And when a working version could I'm sure have been bought off-the-peg from whoever created those used by other countries.

See what I mean about checking basic details? At least I had the decency to check on her position at the company!

There's such a rush to condemn for the very slightest infringement or possibility that they can have a pop at somebody that basic detail seems to pass them by.

[drfchound]

I wasn't guessing, I was asking. I'm pretty sure Private Eye said she's a shareholder but I'm not sure which issue it was in.

And T&T shouldn't have been withheld or rushed in. it should have been in place at the same time other countries managed to have it up and running.

But being a shareholder normally means someone is investing in the company, not taking out 'loads of dosh' as you put it. I have no idea if she has invested in the company, but would it be such a crime if she had? Without some proof it seems that there's a rush to be unduly critical before even contemplating checking basic details.

She'd be benefitting from the profits the company will make as a result. Do you not see that as a direct conflict of interest - especially when as far as I know there's been no public tender? And when a working version could I'm sure have been bought off-the-peg from whoever created those used by other countries.

According to full facts she's not his sister....
 
https://fullfact.org/online/not-dominic-cummings-sister/

Bump.
Gone quiet about this now lads.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I can't understand all the negativity towards track & trace here.

Every other country that has done this has seen very positive results from t&t but for some reason we can't?

I’m not against it in principle, just worried about the practicalities.. 

Precisely.

It was dropped on LAs with zero notice yesterday.

Tracers are reporting that IT systems aren't working.

We have no app.

I'm absolutely not against TTI. It is essential. What I AM against is a clearly flawed system being rammed through to suit a news agenda management requirement.