What has happened in this country

[phil old leake]

By all means protest and say your piece about any subject.
That is the right of every man woman and child in the United Kingdom
These protesters who are causing damage and wrecking property need to be prosecuted. There is no excuse for it. NO excuse
Trying to burn the Union Jack at the cenotaph is as abhorrent to me as the student who thought it was hilarious to urinate on a memorial a while ago

Why are people not appalled by this behaviour.
Any cause will do
A lot of these idiots will have been the ones complaining  (and rightly so) about others not social isolating
Suddenly it’s ok to mix
Please tell me I’m not the only one upset by all of this

[Filo]

By all means protest and say your piece about any subject.
That is the right of every man woman and child in the United Kingdom
These protesters who are causing damage and wrecking property need to be prosecuted. There is no excuse for it. NO excuse
Trying to burn the Union Jack at the cenotaph is as abhorrent to me as the student who thought it was hilarious to urinate on a memorial a while ago

Why are people not appalled by this behaviour.
Any cause will do
A lot of these idiots will have been the ones complaining  (and rightly so) about others not social isolating
Suddenly it’s ok to mix
Please tell me I’m not the only one upset by all of this

David Gilmour from Pink Floyd, his Son got 16 Months jail for swinging from the union jack at the Cenotaph, in the interests of fairness I expect yesterdays idiot will also get a custodial sentence for trying to burn the same flag at the cenotaph

[phil old leake]

I really hope they do

[MachoMadness]

I don't really care about a bit of paint on the Churchill statue. Guy was a literal white supremacist, the message is clear, the paint will wash off. But burning the Union Jack on the cenotaph is as f**king stupid as it gets. What a way to muddy your point while also disrespecting the millions of BAME soldiers who fought. They already don't get enough credit as it is.

Idiocy, likely done in order to go viral.

[IDM]

Idiots hijacking a just-cause protest always spoil it for the rest.

[River Don]

I don't particularly have a problem with people wanting to remove a statue of a slave trader. It shouldn't have still been in place in this day and age.

Puliing it down in an act of vandalism doesn't sit well but given the circumstances I think we can turn a blind eye. Personally I think the statue should be retrieved from the Dock and put in an exhibition about the slave trade in a Bristol museum.

[IDM]

If the authorities in Bristol were to decide today which person would be suitable for a statue, would they choose this one, irrespective of the protests.?

[Not Now Kato]

I don't particularly have a problem with people wanting to remove a statue of a slave trader. It shouldn't have still been in place in this day and age.

Puliing it down in an act of vandalism doesn't sit well but given the circumstances I think we can turn a blind eye. Personally I think the statue should be retrieved from the Dock and put in an exhibition about the slave trade in a Bristol museum.

Agreed.  Liverpool was a massive centre of the slave trade, but if you go there you won't find statues to any of the people involved.  What you will find is an incredibly moving section of the Maritime Museum devoted to the horrors of the slave trade.  It is right to preserve and remember the darker parts of our history, but it's not right to glorify it - which erecting a statue to someone heavily involved in such an atrocious trade is.
 
As to comments about the protesters harming their cause, I think people will find that it's members of extreme organisations that both cause and incite it rather than the protesters themselves, though it is the latter that will get the blame no doubt!

[phil old leake]

I agree that the statue should maybe have come down but agreeing to turn a blind eye to such wanton vandalism isn’t right under any circumstances
It’s not about a £5 bit of damage by some silly kids. If you let that go where do you draw the line

[drfchound]

I wonder what would have happened had one of those ropes got tangled round someone’s leg and the person had gone into the water with the statue.

[knockers]

There would have been protests about the police not diving in to save them!

[roversdude]

The d**khead burning the flag has shown so much disrespect to all races, I really hope he is named and shamed (there’s enough photos of him) and has the book thrown at him. Acts such as this lose so much credibility to genuine causes - that said the lack of social distancing was disgraceful. Bearing in mind that BAME are a more at risk group shows a lack of respect for their own families

[wilts rover]

I wonder what would have happened had one of those ropes got tangled round someone’s leg and the person had gone into the water with the statue.

Were there any ropes around the statue when it was dumped/ceremonially thrown in the water?

[drfchound]

I wonder what would have happened had one of those ropes got tangled round someone’s leg and the person had gone into the water with the statue.

Were there any ropes around the statue when it was dumped/ceremonially thrown in the water?

Yes.
They were dangling off it.

[wilts rover]

By all means protest and say your piece about any subject.
That is the right of every man woman and child in the United Kingdom
These protesters who are causing damage and wrecking property need to be prosecuted. There is no excuse for it. NO excuse
Trying to burn the Union Jack at the cenotaph is as abhorrent to me as the student who thought it was hilarious to urinate on a memorial a while ago

Why are people not appalled by this behaviour.
Any cause will do
A lot of these idiots will have been the ones complaining  (and rightly so) about others not social isolating
Suddenly it’s ok to mix
Please tell me I’m not the only one upset by all of this

This is honestly the first I have heard about this - and from what you are saying you are right to be upset.

Imho there is a huge difference between that - which is just a pure act of spontaneous vandalism and nothing to do with BLM or racism in any form - and the tearing down of the Colston statue which has been a source of controversy for years/decades in Bristol and was clearly planned to remove it as part of the demonstration yesterday.

[wilts rover]

I wonder what would have happened had one of those ropes got tangled round someone’s leg and the person had gone into the water with the statue.

Were there any ropes around the statue when it was dumped/ceremonially thrown in the water?

Yes.
They were dangling off it.

That's surprising, costs a lot for a good piece of rope? Maybe they were meant to represent the shackles the slaves might have had on when they were thrown overboard from his slave ships?

I see now what's happened. I hadn't actually realised until I went to check just now about the ropes WHERE they had actually thrown him in the harbour.

Where the statue was is only about 20 yards from the waterside. I thought they had rolled him there and thrown him in.

But actually they haven't. They have rolled him about 400 yards down the harbourside and thrown him in near Pero's Bridge. Which is the only monument in Bristol that is named after a slave.

Looks from this photo that the ropes are being used to guide him down in the water, it seems to be pulleyed around the barrier - but could be just the photo angle?

Thanks hound - I missed that - makes it even more symbolic

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/08/boris-johnson-colston-statue

[SydneyRover]

I can't all worked up about the Union Flag being damaged when we have an idiot at the helm detemined to drive a wedge between the countries it represents.

[phil old leake]

Explain please

[SydneyRover]

Explain please

It's just a flag Phil, people will wrap themselves in it and claim all sorts of things the real damage is being done by the clown/s running the country taking us out of the EU with all the fiscal damage and associated reduction on food standards, workers and human rights and a lowering lowering of living standards across the country (except of course for a bunch at the top)  Due to this Scotland wants another vote to determine it's independence from England and I support its right to do that and the only thing standing in its way is the refusal of this government to allow a vote. I would much rather see a voluntary united kingdom but Scotland given the choice between England and the EU it would be mad to choose England with these selfish dishonest corrupt unprincipled bas**rds at the helm. Hope that clears it up Phil.

[scawsby steve]

Explain please

It's just a flag Phil, people will wrap themselves in it and claim all sorts of things the real damage is being done by the clown/s running the country taking us out of the EU with all the fiscal damage and associated reduction on food standards, workers and human rights and a lowering lowering of living standards across the country (except of course for a bunch at the top)  Due to this Scotland wants another vote to determine it's independence from England and I support its right to do that and the only thing standing in its way is the refusal of this government to allow a vote. I would much rather see a voluntary united kingdom but Scotland given the choice between England and the EU it would be mad to choose England with these selfish dishonest corrupt unprincipled bas**rds at the helm. Hope that clears it up Phil.

He's taking us out of the EU because the people of this country have mandated him to do so. Twice.

[SydneyRover]

Wrong SS we are already out, the only thing thing left is to work out how big the bill is going to be, I hope those that voted to leave are ready to help those less well off that will suffer the most.

[Draytonian III]

Sydney Rover do you live on these shores ?

[drfchound]

It is just a flag !!
Wrong.....

Also it was on the National Cenotaph symbolically representing fallen servicemen.

[phil old leake]

This is starting to sound like all the threads that led up to the uk leaving.  All the doom and gloom about the stock market crashing and no one investing
I think in reality very soon after we got it finalised the FTSE went up
All the Remain MPs spouting negativity with no basis
It was the same with the outers telling us how good it would be again with no basis
Everyone chucking figures and facts about
To be fair no matter which way you voted the referendum was the referendum and all the complications came from the power people not accepting the vote and causing a lack of confidence in the UK
I don’t know how it’s going to end up and neither does anyone else.
With regard to Scotland N Sturgeon has just found a way of pushing for a new referendum which is her role as head of the SNP
She’s not complaining about Scotland being supported by the cash of the UK central government
I don’t want the UK to break Up and can’t see Scotland getting another vote
The SNP are strong in Scotland which has taken the legs of the Labour Party
The conservatives are highly unlikely to grant another vote in the near future

Back to the subject of the flag and damage being caused. Burning the union flag has nothing to do with supporting”black lives matter“ it’s about being using it as a platform for anti societal behaviour

[phil old leake]

100% hound it’s was a sign of total disregard for all the servicemen that have served this country not only the ones that have given their lives or been injured

[SydneyRover]

Was it the same flag that was used when we Invaded Iraq?

[phil old leake]

Absolutely
The relevance of that comment being
I take it you have total disregard for all the serviceman that fought in Iraq
Whether it was right or wrong to go in there is nothing to do with showing disrespect for people that have served this country
It is the same flag at the Falklands and everywhere else our troops enter

[SydneyRover]

Absolutely
The relevance of that comment being
I take it you have total disregard for all the serviceman that fought in Iraq
Whether it was right or wrong to go in there is nothing to do with showing disrespect for people that have served this country
It is the same flag at the Falklands and everywhere else our troops enter

You are conflating two issues to support your argument Phil

Of the current 200 nations in the world, the British have invaded all but 22 of them. The lucky 22 include Sweden, Luxembourg, Mongolia, Bolivia, and Belarus. The full analysis is available in Laycock’s book, All the Countries We’ve Ever Invaded.

https://kottke.org/12/11/britain-has-invaded-all-but-22-countries#:~:text=Of%20the%20current%20200%20nations,Countries%20We've%20Ever%20Invaded.

[idler]

How many countries did Italy invade? Even Mussolini had a go at recreating part of the Roman Empire.
How was the Russia state and USSR created?
Spain had a far worse record than us in South America than we had in North America.
Portugal,Germany,France,Holland and Belgium all had colonies Sydney.
It was what happened in those times.
It always seems to be us that gets singled out. We were also the major force in trying to effectively stop the slave trade earlier than most.

[SydneyRover]

Idler, I was showing that if you wrap yourself in the flag for glory then you have to accept all the other occasions where the flag was used.

I don't actually see a lot of respect being shown to the flag when it's used on mugs, teatowels, underwear, shopping bags. I hope the buyers of these items dispose of them respectfully.

and this

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BELLA-BRITAIN-UNION-JACK-FLAG-DESIGN-MODERN-FLOOR-RUG-150x220cm-NEW/222575401169?hash=item33d28718d1:g:Vz4AAOSwEUVZYc7U