Priti Patel

[SydneyRover]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

[drfchound]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

Look in the mirror Sydney.
You are not in a position to accuse anyone of that.
Unless posters are in your favoured group your responses to them are extremely childish and condescending.

[SydneyRover]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

Look in the mirror Sydney.
You are not in a position to accuse anyone of that.
Unless posters are in your favoured group your responses to them are extremely childish and condescending.

Post em up hound do your worst, maybe you should put your hand up when SM finished up then you can have a forum just for yourself.

[drfchound]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

Look in the mirror Sydney.
You are not in a position to accuse anyone of that.
Unless posters are in your favoured group your responses to them are extremely childish and condescending.

Post em up hound do your worst, maybe you should put your hand up when SM finished up then you can have a forum just for yourself.

If anyone is interested, and they probably won’t be, they could trawl back through your posts and see for themselves.
You know, like you invited people to do with my posts not so long ago.

I honestly don’t understand what you mean with the middle bit of your last message.

[SydneyRover]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

Look in the mirror Sydney.
You are not in a position to accuse anyone of that.
Unless posters are in your favoured group your responses to them are extremely childish and condescending.

Post em up hound do your worst, maybe you should put your hand up when SM finished up then you can have a forum just for yourself.

this is getting boring hound put up or shut up, just a suggestion like. Have you reread your initial post that kicked this off rooming with selby is not working out is it?

[Metalmicky]

this is getting boring hound put up or shut up, just a suggestion like. Have you reread your initial post that kicked this off rooming with selby is not working out is it?

I think I can speak for everyone when I say it's not 'getting' boring..... the constant hijacking of threads to play out your obvious attraction to each other is at times tedious to say the least...

[drfchound]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

Look in the mirror Sydney.
You are not in a position to accuse anyone of that.
Unless posters are in your favoured group your responses to them are extremely childish and condescending.

Post em up hound do your worst, maybe you should put your hand up when SM finished up then you can have a forum just for yourself.

this is getting boring hound put up or shut up, just a suggestion like. Have you reread your initial post that kicked this off rooming with selby is not working out is it?

You are right, it is very boring, as are most of your responses to me.
So, as I know how you like the final word on things you can have it.





[quote author=SydneyRover

 the case has to go the full distance.

[SydneyRover]

Quite sad really that people sit and search for online news reports and Tweets and then rush to post them on a football forum.
I suppose it must be gratifying for the poster when four or five people sometimes back them up by adding their two pennorth and then discrediting anyone who dares to add a differing point of view.

I think if you look at your post at the base of the latest off-off topic comment and reread your churlish post, you may be able to see why it elicited the responses it did, remind me were you not saying only the other day the politics should be discussed elsewhere?

Still playing the person/s rather than the topic.

Oh come on SR.
Are you saying that you don’t ever attack the poster.
Of course you do, there won’t be many on here who haven’t done that.

I think you are as guilty of it as anyone else.

Is this some sort of excuse for your childish behaviour?

Look in the mirror Sydney.
You are not in a position to accuse anyone of that.
Unless posters are in your favoured group your responses to them are extremely childish and condescending.

Post em up hound do your worst, maybe you should put your hand up when SM finished up then you can have a forum just for yourself.

this is getting boring hound put up or shut up, just a suggestion like. Have you reread your initial post that kicked this off rooming with selby is not working out is it?

You are right, it is very boring, as are most of your responses to me.
So, as I know how you like the final word on things you can have it.


Tell you what hound you are right about everything you comment on, you win, you can have the glory and the admiration of all the forum members you want, go for it.
[

[wilts rover]

this is getting boring hound put up or shut up, just a suggestion like. Have you reread your initial post that kicked this off rooming with selby is not working out is it?

I think I can speak for everyone when I say it's not 'getting' boring..... the constant hijacking of threads to play out your obvious attraction to each other is at times tedious to say the least...

I clicked on the topic because I thought people might be discussing how Patel has blocked the report into Daniel Morgan's murder - whilst investigating police corruption - on 'national security grounds'.

Seems I was wrong - damned if I know what they are 'discussing' - give them their own PM button or sub-forum.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I did Wilts. Before it descended into personal slurs as it tends to do these days.

[belton rover]

I did Wilts. Before it descended into personal slurs as it tends to do these days.

I think it was you who started the personal stuff again, Billy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

On the contrary Belton. I was taking issue with your handling of facts, not with you personally.

[belton rover]

Billy. First of all you told me to ‘continue insisting there is nothing to see’ after I simply quoted from a Guardian article about the subject you brought up.

Secondly, you told me I was beyond your help when I asked you to clarify a comment you made directly to me (I still don’t know what you meant, by the way).

Personal, unnecessary digs. And then you deny any wrongdoing and slate others for doing the same.

Quite pathetic.

[wilts rover]

I did Wilts. Before it descended into personal slurs as it tends to do these days.

Hugely important topic that has not had a fraction of the coverage it deserves. What 'national security' grounds could relate to the murder of someone investigating police corruption?

He said....trying to take the topic back to something interesting...

[belton rover]

I suppose, Wilts, that the very fact that there may be be a national security issue will probably mean you and I will never know.

[wilts rover]

The plot thickens Belton - the investigating panel have refused to hand over their report to Patel

The independent panel investigating the Daniel Morgan scandal is refusing the home secretary’s demands to hand over its report before it can be published, as senior police sources say nothing in the case affects national security.

But one source with close knowledge of the five Metropolitan police inquiries into the case and the documents involved, said: “There are no national security issues involved. There are national embarrassment issues.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/19/daniel-morgan-panel-refuses-to-hand-over-report

I hope Belton that the panel get their way - and the public do know why this man was murdered - and what corruption was he was investigating and who covered it up? But I find your faith in someone who was sacked from a previous government for lying quite touching - and worrying - becuase that is how they have got away with it for so long.

[belton rover]

Wilts. How you can equate my comments into you being touched and worried, I have no idea. IF this is a matter of national security then it should not be made public. IF it is not a matter of national security then it should be made public. IF there is proved to be a cover up then those responsible should be held to account.

I have never suggested any different. You just assume.

#bothsides

[SydneyRover]

The plot thickens Belton - the investigating panel have refused to hand over their report to Patel

The independent panel investigating the Daniel Morgan scandal is refusing the home secretary’s demands to hand over its report before it can be published, as senior police sources say nothing in the case affects national security.

But one source with close knowledge of the five Metropolitan police inquiries into the case and the documents involved, said: “There are no national security issues involved. There are national embarrassment issues.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/19/daniel-morgan-panel-refuses-to-hand-over-report

I hope Belton that the panel get their way - and the public do know why this man was murdered - and what corruption was he was investigating and who covered it up? But I find your faith in someone who was sacked from a previous government for lying quite touching - and worrying - becuase that is how they have got away with it for so long.

That's quite cynical Wilts they the government just want to put the report in a safe place ........ with all the others

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton
Once again, I was NOT having a go at you as a person. I was commenting on your approach of consistently criticising any criticism of the Govt. In this particular case, you presented an unfiltered and unprocessed statement from the HO which was highly questionable in its factual accuracy and flatly refuted by the very Panel that had run the inquiry.

It's been a consistent approach of yours to claim that there is a balance between "both sides" in recent political disagreements. The term for that is Bothsidesism. Your contribution last night was very much in that vein and I responded as such. If I got that wrong, I apologise, but perhaps you could have made that clear by saying whether you thought there was merit in the HO statement rather than simply presenting it.

I don't agree that there is an inevitable and intrinsic value in both sides' arguments. Where I think that one side's argument is lacking in merit, I try to provide evidence as to why I come to that conclusion. As I did last night. I happen to think that Bothsidesism is an intellectual cop out that allows, in fact, requires any unsubstantiated bullshit argument to be given equal due.

The confusion here is that you seem to be conflating an attack on your opinions on this issue as a personal attack on you. It wasn't.

Contrast that against Hound's contribution to this discussion. Which you don't appear to be sufficient exercised by to offer an opinion on.

Your choice of course but forgive me if I interpret that as a rather biassed approach to the discussion.

[belton rover]

Everything is questionable, Billy. That’s kind of the whole point of all this.

You consistently criticise the government over any subject. Never offering an alternative view. I often feel it necessary to address your bias.

#bothsidesmatter

Oh, you forgot to explain how me being beyond your help wasn’t a personal dig.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton

Your third paragraph: My comment was was a quip. It was intended to be a humorous way of saying that if you truly don't understand why a Bothsidesist approach in the current era is a dangerous abdication of responsibility, then we are living in different worlds and there's not a lot I can say to convince you. We used to do robust humour in here before folk started taking every post as a personal assault.

Your first paragraph in this latest post sort of makes my point for me. Yes everthing is questionable. Which is precisely why my take is that intelligent people have a responsibility to identify the truly mendacious, rather than take a Zen-like neutral approach to everything.

Your second paragrpah is factually wrong by the way. But I'll accept it as an honest mistake rather than a personal assault.

[belton rover]

Billy. Call it what you like. Call me what you like.
I absolutely do not give two hoots what you think about my approach to debate. I certainly don’t care for yours either, but accept it for what it is rather than lecturing you on how it should be done. I will say this, though: the day I stop listening to ‘the other man’s views’ or acknowledging that there are always two sides to a story, before forming my own opinion, is the day I give up.

I also don’t care about your personal insults. I’ve learned that these are just part of your debating style. What does irk me is this ‘mightier than thou’ attitude of suggesting that when you throw personal insults about, then it’s ‘just ‘avin a laugh mate, bit o’ banter, and lamenting the days of robust humour - where’s everyone’s sense of humour gone? Whereas when others do the same, you’re aghast at just what this forum has come to. It’s quite ironic that you, of all people, are ruing the lost good old days before the forum mutated into what it is now.

You can’t keep jumping off your horse to say something and jump back on it to say something else - well you can, but eventually your horse will collapse and you’ll be left with nowhere to run.

#bothsidesmatter

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.
I'm really trying to rise above your insistence on making this personal.

Simple question if "both sides matter".

Do you give equal weight to the HO press release and the comment from the inquiry panel in response to that?

[drfchound]

Everything is questionable, Billy. That’s kind of the whole point of all this.

You consistently criticise the government over any subject. Never offering an alternative view. I often feel it necessary to address your bias.

#bothsidesmatter

Oh, you forgot to explain how me being beyond your help wasn’t a personal dig.

Belton, seeing as BST brought my name into the conversation with you this morning, I think it is right that I say that your second paragraph above is the primary reason that I wrote what I did about some posters (and it is only a few) continually posting anti government  propaganda and links to Twitter etc about it.

The night I wrote it I had had a quick look on the forum and on any thread away from the football ones I had seen nothing but post after post of stuff having a pop at anything, however obscure, that discredited the government.
I saw nothing that included bothsidism.

I have tried recently not to get involved but in a moment of weakness I was again sucked in.
As ever, I found myself bombarded and allowed myself to become embroiled in an argument which, as usual, was going nowhere.
Thankfully I decided to terminate it.

Apologies to anyone who was annoyed by that by the way.

However, you are right that there is a feeling that sometimes people (me and you perhaps?) feel the need to offer a different opinion but invariably on our forum are then harangued for doing so.

Anyway, I felt the need to get that off my chest.

Stay well everyone.

[belton rover]

Belton.
I'm really trying to rise above your insistence on making this personal.

Simple question if "both sides matter".

Do you give equal weight to the HO press release and the comment from the inquiry panel in response to that?

And there you go again: insult, then tell me how desperate you are not to fall to my level.

In answer to your question.

Yes I do. You should try it.

Read my response to Wilts.

#bothsidesmatter

[belton rover]

Everything is questionable, Billy. That’s kind of the whole point of all this.

You consistently criticise the government over any subject. Never offering an alternative view. I often feel it necessary to address your bias.

#bothsidesmatter

Oh, you forgot to explain how me being beyond your help wasn’t a personal dig.

Belton, seeing as BST brought my name into the conversation with you this morning, I think it is right that I say that your second paragraph above is the primary reason that I wrote what I did about some posters (and it is only a few) continually posting anti government  propaganda and links to Twitter etc about it.

The night I wrote it I had had a quick look on the forum and on any thread away from the football ones I had seen nothing but post after post of stuff having a pop at anything, however obscure, that discredited the government.
I saw nothing that included bothsidism.

I have tried recently not to get involved but in a moment of weakness I was again sucked in.
As ever, I found myself bombarded and allowed myself to become embroiled in an argument which, as usual, was going nowhere.
Thankfully I decided to terminate it.

Apologies to anyone who was annoyed by that by the way.

However, you are right that there is a feeling that sometimes people (me and you perhaps?) feel the need to offer a different opinion but invariably on our forum are then harangued for doing so.

Anyway, I felt the need to get that off my chest.

Stay well everyone.

Thanks for injecting some maturity and humility into the conversation,Hound. Let’s hope it’s not relentlessly beaten out of you again.

[SydneyRover]

yes hound your old job is still vacant, forum pedant

[belton rover]

yes hound your old job is still vacant, forum pedant

Well done Sydney. Right on cue.

[SydneyRover]

take a bow yourself belton

[BillyStubbsTears]

OK Belton. So you say you choose to give equal regard to "both sides".

Is there a red line at which that no longer applies?

In this case, are you really saying we should give equal consideration to the independent inquiry panel's judgement that the HO is exceeding its authority and undermining the indepence of the process, and a decision by the Govt to block publication, when that Govt has a track record of delaying politically inconvenient reports then totally ignoring their conclusions?

Do you wipe the slate clean after each transgression and assume that both sides are playing by the rules?


Hound. I didn't bring you into this discussion. You waded in with a personal insult.