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Author Topic: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore  (Read 3970 times)

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NickDRFC

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #60 on June 27, 2020, 06:51:13 PM by NickDRFC »
Of course it does, but as SM says above ďWe have always done it that wayĒ - itís a club policy.

silent majority

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #61 on June 27, 2020, 07:05:09 PM by silent majority »
What I donít like about a 12 month rolling contract is that it doesnít suggest a great deal of confidence in the manager. If we had a player we thought had a big future in the game weíd try and tie him down to a 3 year contract (like Whiteman) so why do we not do the same with managers? I appreciate that it gives us flexibility and limits potential compensation if we were to sack the manager but given the confidence the fans and board seem to have in Moore would it not make sense to try to tie him down to a longer term contract?

I donít understand the benefits being that it gives security to Moore and our ability to claim compensation - surely most managers are on longer term deals so thereíd be less compensation for us if he was poached and less security for Moore than most jobs? I canít see many managers having month to month deals and surely the norm is for a couple of years or longer? (Short term deals like Warnockís with Boro notwithstanding)

I think you're wrong. For me it shows the opposite, that we will always have to give a manager 12 months notice. Even with a 2 year deal after 12 months the deal becomes worse than the one we've agreed.

And then there's a lack of trust, much the same with players running down their contracts and seeking alternatives while they're in the last 12 months. What would happen if that was your manager? How could you plan for the long term if you never knew whether they'd be gong in 5 or 6 months time?

RoversAlias

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #62 on June 27, 2020, 07:05:14 PM by RoversAlias »
Nick - I see the merits in it even if I do think we should tie Darren down to a long deal. It is probably to guard financially against the scenario where we need to sack a manager yet would need to pay out a big sum to do so. With a rolling contract, presumably it wouldn't be a massive outlay if we did need to do that, again not that I do with Darren.

This contract method didn't stop us keeping hold of Darren Ferguson for three years, after all.

Also, it isn't a "month to month" contract. It's a constant one-year deal in essence.

silent majority

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #63 on June 27, 2020, 07:08:06 PM by silent majority »
Thanks SM - so my assumption was correct too.!

Yep, we were both right. Embarrassingly for me that Gav had to remind me!

DonnyOsmond

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #64 on June 27, 2020, 07:11:53 PM by DonnyOsmond »
Thoughts are with NewDonny in his hour of need x

NickDRFC

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #65 on June 27, 2020, 07:17:46 PM by NickDRFC »
Nick - I see the merits in it even if I do think we should tie Darren down to a long deal. It is probably to guard financially against the scenario where we need to sack a manager yet would need to pay out a big sum to do so. With a rolling contract, presumably it wouldn't be a massive outlay if we did need to do that, again not that I do with Darren.

This contract method didn't stop us keeping hold of Darren Ferguson for three years, after all.

Also, it isn't a "month to month" contract. It's a constant one-year deal in essence.

I should clarify - the month to month deal that i mentioned was in reference that any manager on that sort of deal would have less time to run than Moore, and that isnít the norm. I wasnít implying that is what Moore is on - Iím aware that he always has a year to run. In terms of us keeping hold of Ferguson for 3 years, thatís probably because no one else wanted him!

I just canít see how giving a manager a rolling 12 month contract is showing more trust than a long term deal and SM wonít be able to convince me otherwise. Of course after the first year of a two year deal youíre in a worse position than we are now with Moore, but for the first half youíre in a better position. And what about 3 year or 4 year deals? The benefit to me is clear that itís protection against facing a massive pay off if things soured whilst there was still a lengthy period left on the contract.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #66 on June 27, 2020, 07:23:27 PM by Chris Black come back »
I think the way to look at it is this - it is an open ended contract. We have effectively given them a lifetime contract. The 12 month element is basically a sub clause, which means if we sack them or they ditch us, the compensation is capped at 12 months in either scenario.

RoversAlias

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #67 on June 27, 2020, 07:30:06 PM by RoversAlias »
Nick - I see the merits in it even if I do think we should tie Darren down to a long deal. It is probably to guard financially against the scenario where we need to sack a manager yet would need to pay out a big sum to do so. With a rolling contract, presumably it wouldn't be a massive outlay if we did need to do that, again not that I do with Darren.

This contract method didn't stop us keeping hold of Darren Ferguson for three years, after all.

Also, it isn't a "month to month" contract. It's a constant one-year deal in essence.

I should clarify - the month to month deal that i mentioned was in reference that any manager on that sort of deal would have less time to run than Moore, and that isnít the norm. I wasnít implying that is what Moore is on - Iím aware that he always has a year to run. In terms of us keeping hold of Ferguson for 3 years, thatís probably because no one else wanted him!

I just canít see how giving a manager a rolling 12 month contract is showing more trust than a long term deal and SM wonít be able to convince me otherwise. Of course after the first year of a two year deal youíre in a worse position than we are now with Moore, but for the first half youíre in a better position. And what about 3 year or 4 year deals? The benefit to me is clear that itís protection against facing a massive pay off if things soured whilst there was still a lengthy period left on the contract.

That's fair Nick, some others have been confused by the nature of the contract before though so felt it worth clarifying. And as I said in that post, I do think we'd be better giving Moore a longer term deal because I feel he's good enough to merit it.

You may be right about Ferguson as well!

Campsall rover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #68 on June 27, 2020, 07:42:12 PM by Campsall rover »
Not sad at all fire starter, it’s all part of being a fan. I completely agree DM is a man of high principle but the fact is I’m sure that he still has ambitions like the rest of us. I hear what you say about the 12 month rolling contract but that was the same as Parkys with us but it will expire at the end of June and only run on if both parties agree.

I think you’d need to know a little more about the reality of Wanderers financial history before accusing us of living above our means but there’s no doubt big mistakes were made after Big Sam left resulting in where we are now. That’s in the past, we now have new owners who will run the club efficiently but have deep pocketed investors when needed so Darren like any other manager would have the resources need to build to get back to the PL. much as I respect Donny, you can’t compare the potential of the two clubs and the facilities the Bolton manager can work with.

Anyway, hopefully it’s irrelevant, Evatt comes to Bolton and DM continues his plan and we both get to lock horns again the season after next on our way back up, assuming you aren’t relegated of course?
Well you underestimate the potential of Doncaster Rovers.
Doncaster MBC has a population of 309.000. So the potential is there believe me. 
Doncaster is not a small town like Burton, Fleetwood, Crewe etc.etc.
If we had a billionaire owner who was happy to spend 100.000.000 and didn’t want it back we could be a premier league club.

You only have to look at Bournemouth & see what they have achieved with a stadium of under 11.000 capacity.

Football is pretty much about money now and the more of it you have that is disposable the more likely you are to be successful.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 07:56:07 PM by Campsall rover »

Dagenham Rover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #69 on June 27, 2020, 08:14:05 PM by Dagenham Rover »
Thanks SM - so my assumption was correct too.!

Yep, we were both right. Embarrassingly for me that Gav had to remind me!

 



and me  ;) :lol:

NewDonny

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #70 on June 27, 2020, 08:34:19 PM by NewDonny »
Thoughts are with NewDonny in his hour of need x

Hour of need, what are you on about?

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #71 on June 27, 2020, 10:35:02 PM by Frankie Rennie »
Not sad at all fire starter, itís all part of being a fan. I completely agree DM is a man of high principle but the fact is Iím sure that he still has ambitions like the rest of us. I hear what you say about the 12 month rolling contract but that was the same as Parkys with us but it will expire at the end of June and only run on if both parties agree.

I think youíd need to know a little more about the reality of Wanderers financial history before accusing us of living above our means but thereís no doubt big mistakes were made after Big Sam left resulting in where we are now. Thatís in the past, we now have new owners who will run the club efficiently but have deep pocketed investors when needed so Darren like any other manager would have the resources need to build to get back to the PL. much as I respect Donny, you canít compare the potential of the two clubs and the facilities the Bolton manager can work with.

Anyway, hopefully itís irrelevant, Evatt comes to Bolton and DM continues his plan and we both get to lock horns again the season after next on our way back up, assuming you arenít relegated of course?
Well you underestimate the potential of Doncaster Rovers.
Doncaster MBC has a population of 309.000. So the potential is there believe me. 
Doncaster is not a small town like Burton, Fleetwood, Crewe etc.etc.
If we had a billionaire owner who was happy to spend 100.000.000 and didnít want it back we could be a premier league club.

You only have to look at Bournemouth & see what they have achieved with a stadium of under 11.000 capacity.

Football is pretty much about money now and the more of it you have that is disposable the more likely you are to be successful.

Iím only quoting the current situation Campsall but youíre correct, with the right deep pocket owner any club can get to the PL just like Bournemouth. The game these days is all about money sadly and the gap between rich and poor is likely to get Even bigger. If the EFL do decide to go down the route of salary caps in L1 and 2 it may result in the previously muted Championship becoming PL2 and that may mean no promotion into it. Hopefully that wonít happen but just now anything can happen.

selby

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #72 on June 28, 2020, 10:45:38 AM by selby »
  If that did happen Frankie, how interested in your football club and not the land and stadium do you think your owners and those of Sunderland, Portsmouth, and Peterborough etc would they be do you think.

BigH

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #73 on June 28, 2020, 12:55:04 PM by BigH »
Lads, FR is having a laugh.
Donít take him seriously.

Ha ha youíve seen through me hound. Genuinely I hope DM stays here and is successful with you as I really like him as a bloke and wish Donny only well. As for Wanderers, itís been a painful downhill slide since Big Sam left with continuing bad decisions and actions by owners but hopefully we have now hit bottom and can start to look up again. As for Wanderers future, it took us 7 years to get back to the PL last time we were in Div 4 so no reason we shouldnít repeat that again Padgett with the right set up. Quoting us not as big as Leeds, Sunderland or Portsmouth is a bit childish really because Wanderers have spent more time of their history in the top division than all of them and I donít mean pre war and have won more than all but Leeds but letís not let the facts get in the way of a good insult attempt eh? 😊
I hope you have bottomed out Frank; Bolton is a biggish club with a great heritage. But I fear that the alchemy you need to re-establish yourselves in the Championship, never mind the Premiership, could be elusive for a while yet.

Potential signings will see the Reebok and be wowed. A bit like Ali Crawford. Remember him? But will they be the ones to dig you out or will they just keep taking the cheque? (Are we back to Ali Crawford?)

Every club you play next season - whenever that is - will lift their game against you and some of your players won't be able to handle it. It'll take you 20 or so games to find them out. Talent will get picked off or jump ship. And then your manager will have to shuffle the pack again and so it goes on.

Best of luck!






Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #74 on June 28, 2020, 06:36:46 PM by Frankie Rennie »
Well Iím not quite as pessimistic as that BigH but I donít think any of us are taking things for granted. That said Iíd be both surprised and disappointed if we werenít back in the Championship in 3 or 4 years at worst. Next season due to still being under embargo we canít pay transfer or loan fees but we have 14 current senior squad players out of contract so we should be able to pick up some good players for the wages we can afford.

Iím hoping one we keep will be Ali Crawford because he was influential before his injury but he may not want to play L2 football. Why ever did you let him leave? Anyway I agree about clubs coming and wanting to beat us but Iím hoping that if Ian Evatt does become our new manager he will instill a good working attitude so we wonít be overawed.

In fairness having to play youth last year has been a benefit because we now have around 5 or 6 that have excelled and will be regular starters. We will see but letís hope we both have good seasons next year whenever that is and I think you have a great chance of promotion with Darren Moore who I rate highly.

elmsallrover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #75 on June 28, 2020, 07:45:41 PM by elmsallrover »
I could not understand rovers in letting Crawford go a bit light weight yes but his overall performances for us was very good with some classic dead ball free kicks

ravenrover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #76 on June 28, 2020, 08:36:13 PM by ravenrover »
Well Iím not quite as pessimistic as that BigH but I donít think any of us are taking things for granted. That said Iíd be both surprised and disappointed if we werenít back in the Championship in 3 or 4 years at worst. Next season due to still being under embargo we canít pay transfer or loan fees but we have 14 current senior squad players out of contract so we should be able to pick up some good players for the wages we can afford.

Iím hoping one we keep will be Ali Crawford because he was influential before his injury but he may not want to play L2 football. Why ever did you let him leave? Anyway I agree about clubs coming and wanting to beat us but Iím hoping that if Ian Evatt does become our new manager he will instill a good working attitude so we wonít be overawed.

In fairness having to play youth last year has been a benefit because we now have around 5 or 6 that have excelled and will be regular starters. We will see but letís hope we both have good seasons next year whenever that is and I think you have a great chance of promotion with Darren Moore who I rate highly.
Just think how good those youngsters would be now if they had played in all the games they could have
Just saying

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #77 on June 29, 2020, 02:33:01 PM by Frankie Rennie »
Ha ha, quite true raven. Anyway, looks like youíre keeping DM now as Wanderers have agreed compensation with Barrow for Ian Evatt who is expected to sign up soon. I wish us both good luck next season and Iíll be watching Donnys results and hope you can get into the promotion reckoning you were denied this year through CV. Take care one and all.

Colemans Left Hook

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #78 on June 30, 2020, 02:18:17 PM by Colemans Left Hook »
They are looking at that Klopp bloke as well, to step up from Anfield.

yeh   that's right .......Bolton "were interested in him"  they wanted him to open a "church garden fete" for charity at Bolton upon Dearne ...... that's the nearest he'll be going to Bolton   could say it would be a "dearne deal"  :suicide:

Drover

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #79 on July 01, 2020, 12:02:02 AM by Drover »
  Frankie, it is a good word that mirrors the more chance of seeing rocking horse S**T that you have got of getting Darren Moore

And Pigs can fly! even with Trotters.

Frankie Rennie

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Re: Bolton apparently interested in Darren Moore
« Reply #80 on July 01, 2020, 01:34:49 PM by Frankie Rennie »
You guys should be on the Charlie Williams thread with quips like that. 😉