Charlie Williams statue

[Metalmicky]

I see people are campaigning for a statue of Jack Leslie somewhere near the Plymouth Argyle ground...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53184615

https://jackleslie.co.uk/

I wonder if anyone would consider a Charlie Williams statue outside the Keepmoat...?  He was a true Yorkshireman, who played for Doncaster Rovers for over a decade, playing over 170 games - Donny were his only league club.  He scored only once during his career - ironically against Barnsley - the place he was born and called home. 

What would people think?

[ravenrover]

All for it, alongside Copps

[DRNaith]

With the quote "I were never a fancy player, but I could stop those buggers that were"

[Filo]

The quote should be “alreight me old flower”

[Donnywolf]

Was that when he was chasing Dennis Violet ?

[graingrover]

no Danny Blanchflower .

[phil old leake]

Where do we all stop with this
The question has to be asked would anyone realistically be looking for a statue if the situation was different than over the last few weeks
Charlie Williams good player from what I’m told great comedian and a real true Yorkshireman
Statues should be reserved for outstanding contribution ie Bobby Moore at Wembley
Sir Alex at Man Utd
If anyone should have a statue at DRFC it should be JR he saved the club and laid the foundations for how it is now (not saying there should be one)
It’s getting to the point where nearly every time there’s a game on TV there’s a minutes applause or some other thing
Statues and the like should be for outstanding individuals in their field

[roversdude]

You can see it - in years to come someone will take offence at something Charlie mentioned in a joke and masses are pulling down the statue. It’s got ridiculous tbh

[phil old leake]

Absolutely

[idler]

I watched an episode of the Comedians on YouTube the other night from early 70s.
Charlie told quite a few that wouldn't see the light of day now, especially the one about the Pakistanis.

[RobTheRover]

Statues cost a fortune. I don't think any club will be throwing a statue up any time soon.

[VivaRovers]

It would be great to see a permanent tribute to Charlie at the Keepmoat in some form; he was undoubtedly a pioneer in the game, but also a better player than he gives himself credit for in the quote mentioned by DRNaith, but a regular centre-half during our most prolonged period in the second tier is no mean feat.

I don't think a statue is the way to go for a lot of reasons, but it would be good to see him honoured in the same way a number of players currently are at the back of the South Stand.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I've always thought Charlie stood out as one of our most notable players, certainly in the top 10 and in my top 5. If there is one person top of the list for a statue, without a doubt it is Alick.

Copps one day perhaps, but for me a statue comes long after a player has been and gone, died, and all can be considered.

[Frankie Rennie]

Speaking as an outsider, a statue of Charlie in the town centre would be more appropriate because whilst obviously a footballer for Donny he was also one of the funniest comedians of his time. Eric Morecambe has one in err! Morecambe and even Andy Capp has one in Hartlepool so why not one for Charlie who gave the country so many laughs?

[VivaRovers]

...well, he's from Barnsley not Doncaster. So not sure it would go down that well with his family. His connection to our town is very much through the football club.

[Frankie Rennie]

Ah, of course silly me. How about neutral ground then outside the UniBol next to Sir Nat? 🙃

[the vicar]

I would have his statue because he was a player for us  and happens to be black but not just because he was black that is for the wrong reasons

[since-1969]

I see people are campaigning for a statue of Jack Leslie somewhere near the Plymouth Argyle ground...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53184615

https://jackleslie.co.uk/

I wonder if anyone would consider a Charlie Williams statue outside the Keepmoat...?  He was a true Yorkshireman, who played for Doncaster Rovers for over a decade, playing over 170 games - Donny were his only league club.  He scored only once during his career - ironically against Barnsley - the place he was born and called home. 

What would people think?

The world has gone statue daft . What why not Alex Jeffrey or Harry Gregg or James Coppinger!! Just because colour of a skin shouldn’t matter, retrospective  positive discrimination is not no answer .

[wilts rover]

Charlie Williams, MBE, was one of Britain's first post-war professional footballers of colour who later found even greater fame as a popular comedian and entertainer.

Early Life

The prejudice Charlie found as an adult seems to have been at odds with his early life in West Yorkshire. His mother was a white English woman. His father was the only black man for miles and was welcomed into the community. He worked hard and had the respect due to a man who had come from Barbados to fight in, and was subsequently debilitated by, World War I. He had served in the Royal Engineers and became permanently injured with trench foot during the war.

As a child, Charlie was well treated in school by the staff and by adults in general, something he later put down to being a 'lovable rarity'. Moving to Upton to live with family, after his father's death, Charlie was still largely free of the racism evident in other parts of the country. On working in a coal mine from the age of fourteen he said, "My colour didn't matter down the pit. We had no time for daft things like that... Colliers are a breed of their own. They've a wonderful sense of humour - they have to have".

Football

Spotted playing for Upton Colliery, Charlie signed for Doncaster Rovers at the age of 19 and remained there for over a decade. Although not particularly tall for a central defender he was athletic, good in the air, quick and a good reader of the game.

The 50's saw a marked shift in attitude towards immigration and the black community already present in the UK and there was no means of escape on the football pitch. He reckoned in the early days with Rovers, the away crowd would let out a huge gasp every time he walked onto the playing field, a sign of the huge shock it was to see a player of colour on the field."I'll kill you, you black b*****d", said one Number 9. Opposition supporters were predictably and equally vicious but Charlie reckoned it spurred him on, noting that "if I'd played for their side I'd have been a grand lad".

One of his team mates said that these days there'd be stewards, police and the FA taking action on the abuse thrown Charlie's way...

"He used to say it didn't bother him but it did. It had to. Some of the lads might have put the odd naughty challenge in to any player who'd said too much by way of revenge but, by and large he got his own back by his performance. I think people forget he was on the books at Rovers for a long time and played alongside Harry Gregg, Len Graham, and Alick Jeffrey in the second tier of English football. He got up the opposition's noses by doing his job well. It annoys me that people think of him as a famous comedian who happened to play for Doncaster Rovers. He was a good player in what might be the best side Rovers ever had". Another team mate lauded his ability to turn the other cheek, "He never took the bait and kept his dignity on and off the pitch."

None of these experiences seem to have made him bitter. He recalled that "we'd call each other names during the match but afterwards you would shake hands and be friends. Some fans would even come up and say sorry".

After a spell at non-league Skegness Town, he was offered a well paid, player-coach job in Sydney but when the Australian immigration office realised he was black they blocked his application. A national press campaign resulted in a change of heart from the Australians. Charlie said no - "To hell with that. You refused me and that's it."

Showbusiness

After his football career ended he began working as a semi-professional singer but found his humorous patter between songs was going down even better in the working men's clubs. He found the blueprint that was to make him a huge star, telling jokes at his own expense in his broad Yorkshire accent.

He became the first black British stand-up comedian to experience mainstream success. In the seventies he was a fixture on television. He became a household name on The Comedians, had his own ITV show, It's Charlie Williams, the Charlie Williams Show on the BBC and hosted ATV's game show The Golden Shot.

Lenny Henry - who Charlie said he'd like to play him if a film was ever made about his life story - said,

"Charlie Williams was perfect for the time he appeared. It was a brilliant thing, this black Yorkshireman who played football with Doncaster Rovers, who'd had the wartime experience of white Yorkshire people, who talked like them, who thought like them, but who just happened to be black...and Charlie exploited this to the full." And referring to the material he used that drew criticism from some quarters at the time, Henry said:"I went through a period of thinking it was all bad, but I just think it was the times and you did what you had to do to get by. I think you did what you had to do to survive in a predominantly white world."

https://furd.org/content/charlie-williams

[swintonrover]

Charlie Williams has a car park named after him. I know it's not much, but short of us building statues, it's a pretty decent honour.

[Metalmicky]

Charlie Williams has a car park named after him. I know it's not much, but short of us building statues, it's a pretty decent honour.

Something to build on perhaps.....

[silent majority]

But Charlie Williams does have something dedicated to him at DRFC

[DonnyBazR0ver]

No.

Why now? The last thing that he would have wanted is some sort of tokenism because he was black.

Raising a statue should not be a way of absolving any guilt for any racism he encountered from previous generations.

He is celebrated and fondly renembered on merit as part of our footballing history because he was Charlie Williams, a good footballer, not because he was black.

What he will have wanted is that we all learn from the past and act accordingly treating everyone fairly and equally irrespective of the colour of their skin.

We need to be careful who you hold in such high regard and deserving of a statue. Many are just normal human beings, faults and all, who have gone onto achieve great things. There are many ways we can celebrate and remember our heroes without raising a statue. The only footballer who might come close for me is Mr Coppinger but he is very much alive and kicking and I'm sure still has many more years left  to live.

[since-1969]

Charlie Williams, MBE, was one of Britain's first post-war professional footballers of colour who later found even greater fame as a popular comedian and entertainer.

Early Life

The prejudice Charlie found as an adult seems to have been at odds with his early life in West Yorkshire. His mother was a white English woman. His father was the only black man for miles and was welcomed into the community. He worked hard and had the respect due to a man who had come from Barbados to fight in, and was subsequently debilitated by, World War I. He had served in the Royal Engineers and became permanently injured with trench foot during the war.

As a child, Charlie was well treated in school by the staff and by adults in general, something he later put down to being a 'lovable rarity'. Moving to Upton to live with family, after his father's death, Charlie was still largely free of the racism evident in other parts of the country. On working in a coal mine from the age of fourteen he said, "My colour didn't matter down the pit. We had no time for daft things like that... Colliers are a breed of their own. They've a wonderful sense of humour - they have to have".

Football

Spotted playing for Upton Colliery, Charlie signed for Doncaster Rovers at the age of 19 and remained there for over a decade. Although not particularly tall for a central defender he was athletic, good in the air, quick and a good reader of the game.

The 50's saw a marked shift in attitude towards immigration and the black community already present in the UK and there was no means of escape on the football pitch. He reckoned in the early days with Rovers, the away crowd would let out a huge gasp every time he walked onto the playing field, a sign of the huge shock it was to see a player of colour on the field."I'll kill you, you black b*****d", said one Number 9. Opposition supporters were predictably and equally vicious but Charlie reckoned it spurred him on, noting that "if I'd played for their side I'd have been a grand lad".

One of his team mates said that these days there'd be stewards, police and the FA taking action on the abuse thrown Charlie's way...

"He used to say it didn't bother him but it did. It had to. Some of the lads might have put the odd naughty challenge in to any player who'd said too much by way of revenge but, by and large he got his own back by his performance. I think people forget he was on the books at Rovers for a long time and played alongside Harry Gregg, Len Graham, and Alick Jeffrey in the second tier of English football. He got up the opposition's noses by doing his job well. It annoys me that people think of him as a famous comedian who happened to play for Doncaster Rovers. He was a good player in what might be the best side Rovers ever had". Another team mate lauded his ability to turn the other cheek, "He never took the bait and kept his dignity on and off the pitch."

None of these experiences seem to have made him bitter. He recalled that "we'd call each other names during the match but afterwards you would shake hands and be friends. Some fans would even come up and say sorry".

After a spell at non-league Skegness Town, he was offered a well paid, player-coach job in Sydney but when the Australian immigration office realised he was black they blocked his application. A national press campaign resulted in a change of heart from the Australians. Charlie said no - "To hell with that. You refused me and that's it."

Showbusiness

After his football career ended he began working as a semi-professional singer but found his humorous patter between songs was going down even better in the working men's clubs. He found the blueprint that was to make him a huge star, telling jokes at his own expense in his broad Yorkshire accent.

He became the first black British stand-up comedian to experience mainstream success. In the seventies he was a fixture on television. He became a household name on The Comedians, had his own ITV show, It's Charlie Williams, the Charlie Williams Show on the BBC and hosted ATV's game show The Golden Shot.

Lenny Henry - who Charlie said he'd like to play him if a film was ever made about his life story - said,

"Charlie Williams was perfect for the time he appeared. It was a brilliant thing, this black Yorkshireman who played football with Doncaster Rovers, who'd had the wartime experience of white Yorkshire people, who talked like them, who thought like them, but who just happened to be black...and Charlie exploited this to the full." And referring to the material he used that drew criticism from some quarters at the time, Henry said:"I went through a period of thinking it was all bad, but I just think it was the times and you did what you had to do to get by. I think you did what you had to do to survive in a predominantly white world."

https://furd.org/content/charlie-williams

Worthy of recognition of his life’s achievements but a statue should be in Barnsley where he lived and loved .

[DonnyBazR0ver]

https://youtu.be/GeixtYS-P3s

I

[Campsall rover]

No.

Why now? The last thing that he would have wanted is some sort of tokenism because he was black.

Raising a statue should not be a way of absolving any guilt for any racism he encountered from previous generations.

He is celebrated and fondly renembered on merit as part of our footballing history because he was Charlie Williams, a good footballer, not because he was black.

What he will have wanted is that we all learn from the past and act accordingly treating everyone fairly and equally irrespective of the colour of their skin.

We need to be careful who you hold in such high regard and deserving of a statue. Many are just normal human beings, faults and all, who have gone onto achieve great things. There are many ways we can celebrate and remember our heroes without raising a statue. The only footballer who might come close for me is Mr Coppinger but he is very much alive and kicking and I'm sure still has many more years left  to live.

And probably play. 

[Colemans Left Hook]

no Danny Blanchflower .

did anyone ever wonder why Blanchflower had ears like the handles on the fa cup   .... rumour has it  Charlie pulled him back by the ears ..... 

[VivaRovers]

But Charlie Williams does have something dedicated to him at DRFC

That's great, but I did say a permanent tribute.

Also I think this thread highlights how pointless naming the car parks after players has been; given none of us bar swintonrover realised that one was named after Charlie. I only know one of them is named after James Coppinger because I asked him about it.

It's a dubious honour, having a car park named after you; perhaps the only piece of news you can be neither underwhelmed nor overwhelmed with.

[silent majority]

But Charlie Williams does have something dedicated to him at DRFC

That's great, but I did say a permanent tribute.

Also I think this thread highlights how pointless naming the car parks after players has been; given none of us bar swintonrover realised that one was named after Charlie. I only know one of them is named after James Coppinger because I asked him about it.

It's a dubious honour, having a car park named after you; perhaps the only piece of news you can be neither underwhelmed nor overwhelmed with.

Viva, you also said 'permanent in some form'. Which is what this is. I understand that you mean a flag or something that has a permanent placing, but the advantage of the display unit is that we can move it around the stadium and the community, which is what the club do with it. That way it can be seen and appreciated by many more people.

I also find the other tributes that have been put at the back of the South Stand rather bland, and have lost any relevance to the club because of that, apart from the Coppinger flag of course!

We were working on something that we felt would be of greater relevance to the supporters and the club/community but we've had to curtail that for the time being due to Covid and costs, hopefully we can pick that up sometime soon. But always happy to discuss new ideas and make preparations for the time we can celebrate again.

[RoversAlias]

I personally really like the portrait images of legendary players on the back wall of the stand, if that's what you're referring to? Easily visible flags and images within the seating area is the best place for them as it is of course where matches take place.

I've never heard of nor seen this Charlie Williams display personally and would have no idea where it even is.