Potential Loophole in Salary Cap

[Alan Southstand]

It’s being widely reported that due to delays on the decision about salary caps, it has given clubs a small loophole to exploit.

Excerpt from a Sunderland rag article:

But a loophole in the system could well work in Sunderland’s favour when it comes to attracting signings.

As a transitional measure, players already on the books of League One clubs would count at a maximum of £1,300 per week towards the salary cap – the divisional average wage.

[Padge_DRFC]

Pay large sign on fees. Bonuses etc that are easy to achieve.

[drfchound]

A delay in making a decision.....surely not.

[Alan Southstand]

Not once, but twice they have moved the date!

[Jonathan]

I expect the salary cap will be largely like Financial Fair Play. A fairly impotent concept that encourages, without enforcing, both responsible behaviour and creative accounting in equal measure. Which way clubs treat it will likely depend on a combination of means, ethics and intent, with little to discourage owners from simply ignoring it.

[silent majority]

It’s being widely reported that due to delays on the decision about salary caps, it has given clubs a small loophole to exploit.

Excerpt from a Sunderland rag article:

But a loophole in the system could well work in Sunderland’s favour when it comes to attracting signings.

As a transitional measure, players already on the books of League One clubs would count at a maximum of £1,300 per week towards the salary cap – the divisional average wage.

That's totally wrong, on all fronts.

Firstly it's not been delayed, the vote has always been scheduled for July 29th.

Secondly, it's not a loophole, it was always built into the scheme that players already on contract will have their salary, if above the average wage, capped at that wage during the transition period. 

Thirdly the average wage isn't £1,300 per week. It's a £2.5m cap per club, with a maximum squad of 22. So £2.5m divided by 22 = £113,636 p.a. which is £2,185 per week. That should also include bonuses and agents fees.

[Alan Southstand]

SM, don’t shoot the messenger. I have just been trawling the Newsnow site, to see what other teams are up to, in our league. Several local rags are saying, more or less, the same thing. If you check out what Bristol Rovers are doing, they obviously think they’re getting round the cap in some way - 4 players signed already!
It may well be wrong, but what has sparked so many sports writers to report the same thing? And there’s no getting away from the facts that some Clubs, in our league, appear to be very active just lately.

[silent majority]

Alan, I'm not shooting the messenger, just pointing out that the information you've posted is incorrect.

But it always amuses me that what people read on the internet, or what 'their mate' told them, is always classed as more accurate than the information that comes from the horses mouth.

Sports writers are not always the best informed, they have something to sell, so will post speculation and opinion as often as they post anything factual. I can assure you that our media team at the FSA are inundated with enquiries from journalists who want the inside track on some of this stuff, they know full well that anything to do with governance or similar means we will know much more than them.

So, because local rags are reporting similar would suggest they're getting the wrong information from a similar source. What I've posted is directly from the document that the clubs are being asked to vote on. I'm not posting opinion, or speculation, I'm  giving you the information that the clubs have in their possession and what they've been asked to vote on next week.

[idler]

The same figures were quoted in the Telegraph & Argus by Ryan Sparks their director of communications and commercial.
He cites Bolton for signing Sarcevic and Eoin Doyle on big wages and states. "Doyle for example ,has been signed on a three year deal-which would qualify at the £68,000 annual rate in the cap for the length of his contract.
I would imagine all these local papers will be using the same source without maybe double checking the facts.
It seems the bigger clubs are complaining that they are being held back by this salary cap plan.

[idler]

I think you have covered all of my post Martin. It does show how quickly misinformation spreads though. I suppose that all sports reporters are desperate for copy at the minute though and don't want to feel left behind news wise.

[silent majority]

I think you have covered all of my post Martin. It does show how quickly misinformation spreads though. I suppose that all sports reporters are desperate for copy at the minute though and don't want to feel left behind news wise.

One of the problems you have locally though idler is that Ryan Sparks has been seriously misinformed by his own club. He gave some information to the supporters trust at Bradford which was completely wrong. A rep from that trust then posted that information on the National Council loop at the FSA and had to be corrected by us.

I believe that Bradford are one of the clubs that will vote against the salary cap in lg2.

[idler]

You will probably be able to read in telegraph and argus.co.uk/sport Martin if you are interested but he seems to have a few things wrong.
The articles title is, 'New 'Loophole' will make cap irrelevant.
All in capitals to emphasise it.

[silent majority]

You will probably be able to read in telegraph and argus.co.uk/sport Martin if you are interested but he seems to have a few things wrong.
The articles title is, 'New 'Loophole' will make cap irrelevant.
All in capitals to emphasise it.

I've just read that idler. So the figure of £1,300 comes about because of the salary cap in lg2, which is accurate. £1.5m divided by 22 players etc.

But that still makes the point Alan was making completely wrong as he was referring to a Sunderland rag! Quite odd.

In that article Ryan is saying that they are talking about the cut-off date for existing contracts to be moved to August 6th, which obviously helps out those clubs that have already signed players on stupid contracts. I can't for the life of me see that going through. I'll double check to see if there are any late amendments to the details of the salary cap scheme, I haven't seen anything official from the EFL to the clubs so maybe its just speculation.

[Alan Southstand]

Martin, it’s not just Sunderland and Bradford, but quite a few Clubs local papers. It may be that they’re all copying one another, I don’t know, but they are consistently saying the same thing.

[streatham dave]

It depends how you define average. Some players could be being paid far higher than this and others far lower making this 'average' possible. Not going to go into a maths lesson, but look up mean, median and mode.

[silent majority]

Martin, it’s not just Sunderland and Bradford, but quite a few Clubs local papers. It may be that they’re all copying one another, I don’t know, but they are consistently saying the same thing.

Alan, I see that. But the point I was making is that the £1300 pw figure relates to lg2 clubs and not lg1, which makes me wonder why Bristol and Sunderland are reporting it. Surely there should be another article which covers the lg1 clubs.

And if they have had the ability to move the EFL on the cut-off dates then that's just deplorable. Those clubs trying to cut their cloth have been disadvantaged. I intend to get an accurate update in the next day or so.

[silent majority]

It depends how you define average. Some players could be being paid far higher than this and others far lower making this 'average' possible. Not going to go into a maths lesson, but look up mean, median and mode.

Not in this instance Dave, the EFL have already defined what they mean by average.

LG1 £2.5m salary cap
22 players means £113,636 per player
£2,185 per week.

Any player previously contracted to a higher figure is classed as earning the average.

[streatham dave]

 Thanks for the clarification, but you have divided 2.5M by 22 and found the mean average. This is only one way of calculating average. It is the most simple way to calculate an average, but by no means the only way and we all know that even in the same club what players are paid varies a great deal. An average (Median) can also be a mid figure . It is quite possible that squad player 11 and 12 out of a squad of 22 could both be earning £1300 with players 1-10 earning above this (some considerably so) with players 13-22 earning less than this (again considerably so for some first year pros lets say). Then you also have mode average which is the figure that comes up the most when you look at a set of stats.

[silent majority]

Thanks for the clarification, but you have divided 2.5M by 22 and found the mean average. This is only one way of calculating average. It is the most simple way to calculate an average, but by no means the only way and we all know that even in the same club what players are paid varies a great deal. An average (Median) can also be a mid figure . It is quite possible that squad player 11 and 12 out of a squad of 22 could both be earning £1300 with players 1-10 earning above this (some considerably so) with players 13-22 earning less than this (again considerably so for some first year pros lets say). Then you also have mode average which is the figure that comes up the most when you look at a set of stats.

Dave, I did say that the EFL had decided what their interpretation of average means, and I gave you their working out. It's not my definition its theirs.

[NickDRFC]

Dave, you’re right in that there are different types of averages statistically speaking, but when people are talking about the average house price or the average wage it’s always the mean. Imagine if they tried to do this with the mode? You’d just put 2 players on £100 a week who never play, and then stagger everyone else’s as unique salaries and then you could pay them as much as you like! As you’ve said, using the median could also skew it - there would be no restriction on what you paid the top end players as long as the mid point was at that £2k a week mark.

Using the mean is the most logical approach and the hardest to circumvent.

[godlike1]

Does anyone really think it will be voted for? Given that there are now 6 is it ex prem clubs in league 1, I can't see them wanting to hamper their chances of attracting players to get them back into the championship. I could almost see some clubs voting against it aka rovers but following the model anyway

[silent majority]

Does anyone really think it will be voted for? Given that there are now 6 is it ex prem clubs in league 1, I can't see them wanting to hamper their chances of attracting players to get them back into the championship. I could almost see some clubs voting against it aka rovers but following the model anyway

Do you mean the salary cap?

They're going to have to vote it in. If they want extra money from Government/EFL/EPL then LG1/LG2 clubs will have to be seen to be doing the right thing by getting their own house in order. It's the 1st step in the chain, do this first and the others should follow.

[RoversAlias]

Is that reasonably assured information SM? The lack of detail regarding any financial help from the Premier League has led me to think it simply isn't something that will happen at this point, so I'd be encouraged to hear that something is properly in the works, especially after Richard Masters said the EFL hadn't even asked for any financial assistance.

[silent majority]

Is that reasonably assured information SM? The lack of detail regarding any financial help from the Premier League has led me to think it simply isn't something that will happen at this point, so I'd be encouraged to hear that something is properly in the works, especially after Richard Masters said the EFL hadn't even asked for any financial assistance.

It is, but I think we'll all get more information after the vote on July 29th. Once that's done it will make the way forward a bit clearer.

I wasn't convinced by Richard Masters words to the select committee, if it had been Bill Bush then I would have taken more notice.

[DonnyOsmond]

Does anyone really think it will be voted for? Given that there are now 6 is it ex prem clubs in league 1, I can't see them wanting to hamper their chances of attracting players to get them back into the championship. I could almost see some clubs voting against it aka rovers but following the model anyway

Do you mean the salary cap?

They're going to have to vote it in. If they want extra money from Government/EFL/EPL then LG1/LG2 clubs will have to be seen to be doing the right thing by getting their own house in order. It's the 1st step in the chain, do this first and the others should follow.

Will the Championship have a cap coming in too?

[silent majority]

Does anyone really think it will be voted for? Given that there are now 6 is it ex prem clubs in league 1, I can't see them wanting to hamper their chances of attracting players to get them back into the championship. I could almost see some clubs voting against it aka rovers but following the model anyway

Do you mean the salary cap?

They're going to have to vote it in. If they want extra money from Government/EFL/EPL then LG1/LG2 clubs will have to be seen to be doing the right thing by getting their own house in order. It's the 1st step in the chain, do this first and the others should follow.

Will the Championship have a cap coming in too?

Well they're talking about it. The figure of £18m has been mooted more than once. But the Championship is a bit more complicated due to the existence of parachute payments. They may well defer until the season after to give them time to acclimatise.

[streatham dave]

Makes the next couple of seasons vitally important to get up into the Championship. With the huge difference in wage cap it will make it extremely hard for those promoted into it to compete.

[drfchound]

Does anyone really think it will be voted for? Given that there are now 6 is it ex prem clubs in league 1, I can't see them wanting to hamper their chances of attracting players to get them back into the championship. I could almost see some clubs voting against it aka rovers but following the model anyway

Do you mean the salary cap?

They're going to have to vote it in. If they want extra money from Government/EFL/EPL then LG1/LG2 clubs will have to be seen to be doing the right thing by getting their own house in order. It's the 1st step in the chain, do this first and the others should follow.

Will the Championship have a cap coming in too?

Well they're talking about it. The figure of £18m has been mooted more than once. But the Championship is a bit more complicated due to the existence of parachute payments. They may well defer until the season after to give them time to acclimatise.

I wonder how things in L1 would be affected should a club still receiving parachute payments drop into it.

[silent majority]

Does anyone really think it will be voted for? Given that there are now 6 is it ex prem clubs in league 1, I can't see them wanting to hamper their chances of attracting players to get them back into the championship. I could almost see some clubs voting against it aka rovers but following the model anyway

Do you mean the salary cap?

They're going to have to vote it in. If they want extra money from Government/EFL/EPL then LG1/LG2 clubs will have to be seen to be doing the right thing by getting their own house in order. It's the 1st step in the chain, do this first and the others should follow.

Will the Championship have a cap coming in too?

Well they're talking about it. The figure of £18m has been mooted more than once. But the Championship is a bit more complicated due to the existence of parachute payments. They may well defer until the season after to give them time to acclimatise.

I wonder how things in L1 would be affected should a club still receiving parachute payments drop into it.

I think they’d have to comply. There’s some wriggle room but not much.

[steve@dcfd]

In a squad of 22 say clubs could have U21s, if good enough, because their wages don’t count in the 2.5m or 1.5m. So any players released from premiership clubs and are U21 or younger should be trying their hardest to get into league 1 and league 2 clubs as long as their agents don’t price them out of league football. 1500 footballers out of  a job so all of them have to learn what realistic wages are.