Taking a knee

[scunny rover]

Well I still won't be taking a knee

[SydneyRover]

I don't think anyone cares, I certainly don't

[Not Now Kato]

If you have served Queen and country then you know how paying of respect is done.  It isn’t by kneeling.

By implying it is, in a counter argument to taking a knee for BLM, then that makes me question your motives..

I’m anti racist but I am not on the public eye so there is no need for me to take a knee to send out a message.

But these counter arguments, like “white lives matter”, are disturbing.

so in reality IDM saying all lives matter bothers you

 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well I still won't be taking a knee

You're in good company by the way, saying you'd only take a knee for your wife and the Queen.

The Foreign Secretary said exactly the same thing.

That's the same Foreign Secretary who wrote a book ten years ago saying that the White British working class were thick and bone idle.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Well I still won't be taking a knee

You're in good company by the way, saying you'd only take a knee for your wife and the Queen.

The Foreign Secretary said exactly the same thing.

That's the same Foreign Secretary who wrote a book ten years ago saying that the White British working class were thick and bone idle.

I have more in common with my black next door neighbours than I do the Queen. Unlike my neighbours, the Queen has done precisely f**k all for me, so there’s no way I’d take the knee for her or her family. However I’d happily do it for my neighbours.

[scunny rover]

So let me think about this .....
Yeah still wont take a knee

[BillyStubbsTears]

Strange that you feel the need to make such a show of telling us this, but I'm sure you have your reasons.

[scunny rover]

Why strange its my opinion some don't agree some do ,likewise I don't agree to some comments but others I can see there point.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Scunny.

You are of course, perfectly entitled to your opinions.

It's just an odd stance to refuse to engage with other peoples' arguments but just restate your own opinion. Seems a pointless exercise. You made your point once. Why keep doing it?

[scunny rover]

I've just said i agree and don't agree with some posts on here and have done my research and my stance is still the same.has your stance changed or is it just me who's got to change.
Anyway have a nice rest of the day im gonna try and sneak a hours kip in before the night shift.
Bye

[phil old leake]

Billy are we not maybe getting to a situation where if your opinion differs to the protestors you’re deemed to be wrong
Surely everyone has a right to agree or disagree with a way things are done or supported
Just because someone doesn’t want to take the knee doesn’t mean they are racist or wrong to have that opinion. It also doesn’t mean they are racist.

[drfchound]

Precisely Phil.

[selby]

  Phil, it mainly highlights that he is an individual with a mind of his own, unlike a lot of people who join in with the latest craze.

[IDM]

Indeed, not joining in the protest and not “taking the knee”’does not make anyone a racist.

However, actively promoting other slogans or statements which are seen to oppose or downgrade anti-racism actions is a different matter.  Not demonstrably racist perhaps, but dangerous in my opinion.

For example, what does someone saying they would only kneel for the Queen (in a debate about anti racism protest and taking the knee) actually mean, when the only reason to kneel for the Queen is to receive a knighthood.?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, however Service men and women are supposed to be apolitical, outwardly at least.

[IDM]

Till they get a crowd back at Leeds and Millwall.

Still waiting for an explanation on what this means.?

It would be easy to conclude that Selby thinks Millwall and Leeds have lots of supporters who are racists, so much so there would be a feeling of threat so strong that players wouldn’t take a knee.?  Does Selby think those racist fans would riot or somehow threaten the safety of those players.?

That’s just an easy supposition I could make, but really it’s down to Selby to explain his reasons.

What is it, eh.?

[phil old leake]

I actually think that that pressure to take the knee is far greater than any fear of repercussions from fans for not taking it

[wilts rover]

I actually think that that pressure to take the knee is far greater than any fear of repercussions from fans for not taking it

I think a lot of people are 'taking the knee' beacuse they work/play sport alongside black colleagues and wish to support/show solidarity to those colleagues.

My evidence is based on what I can see on tv and in life. What's yours based on?

[phil old leake]

Mine comes from a belief that sportsmen are normal human beings with their own views.
No one can realistically say that all sportsmen that are bending the knee are doing it through choice. Look at motor racing. Why would other sports be different
Are you genuinely suggesting that every sportsman bending the knee has no reservations or differing views about it. It’s not logical that every premiership footballer agrees with it. (NOT THAT THEY'RE RACIST IN ANY WAY) before that shout goes out

[BillyStubbsTears]

Who knows why most are not taking a knee in motor racing?

Different country, obviously, but the ostentatious flying of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events says something about the culture of the crowds there.

[Janso]

Mine comes from a belief that sportsmen are normal human beings with their own views.
No one can realistically say that all sportsmen that are bending the knee are doing it through choice. Look at motor racing. Why would other sports be different
Are you genuinely suggesting that every sportsman bending the knee has no reservations or differing views about it. It’s not logical that every premiership footballer agrees with it. (NOT THAT THEY'RE RACIST IN ANY WAY) before that shout goes out

You do understand the concept of solidarity, yes?

[MachoMadness]

It's not logical that every footballer agrees with the poppy either, but look how the ones who choose not to wear one get treated. No one seems to have an issue with that, though.

Not an entirely fair comparison, I admit, but footballers have made gestures and supported causes on the pitch for years. It's interesting that it's only THIS one that people seem to have a problem with.

[phil old leake]

Was that not my point in the first place. They’re afraid not to
Likewise with other things

[ravenrover]

Who knows why most are not taking a knee in motor racing?

Different country, obviously, but the ostentatious flying of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events says something about the culture of the crowds there.

Confederate flag has now been banned I believe

[phil old leake]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-53450820

[ravenrover]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/13/sports/bubba-wallace-nascar-confederate-flag.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwjN1oDv9onrAhWOSsAKHV28A64QFjALegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1MaWU5ZqPrmToFoZAcxoES&ampcf=1

[SydneyRover]

This subject shouldn't be a big deal doing it shows support not doing it is of course the opposite.

If you support fairness, equality, human rights and many other reasons ....... why wouldn't you do it?

Don't make it complicated, it's not.

[ravenrover]

I think the point is it's a matter of choice to bend or not, you shouldn't be labelled by not bending

[phil old leake]

Sydney.  Agreed if you agree with all those things why shouldn’t you do it if that’s what you want to do
Likewise if you agree with all those things why shouldn’t you be allowed to choose not to do it
It’s a matter of choice. Not doing it doesn’t outlaw you a racist same as bending the knee because you’re afraid not to doesn’t highlight you as someone who isn’t racist or bigoted

[IDM]

I think the point is it's a matter of choice to bend or not, you shouldn't be labelled by not bending

Agreed.  But supporting or promoting actions that are opposite, or almost opposite, is more disturbing.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney.  Agreed if you agree with all those things why shouldn’t you do it if that’s what you want to do
Likewise if you agree with all those things why shouldn’t you be allowed to choose not to do it
It’s a matter of choice. Not doing it doesn’t outlaw you a racist same as bending the knee because you’re afraid not to doesn’t highlight you as someone who isn’t racist or bigoted
[/quote

I think I agree with you but I'm not sure what you said Phil