Sadlier

[GazLaz]

He’s another player we could have potentially made a profit on but we let their contract expire. We are very poor in this scenario. Even if we only for 200-300k for him, that’s a lot of money for us.

We didn’t “let” his contract expire though - he was offered a new one ages ago but chose not to sign..

We can’t force players to sign.

We let it run into the last season. If we had offered an extension at the and of his first season I’m sure he would have signed. We can’t let saleable assets leave for free as often as we do.

[roversdude]

Of course they will pay more they are a league above us
Did they pay more last season? I don’t know but then KS didn’t leave last season
If we are going on promotion equating to wages paid then Sunderland should have walked the league

[silent majority]

Because they finished higher in the league.?

Are you saying that a 9th place finish (Covid or not) under DM, after the palaver of last summer - plus the way we were playing under DM and the direction we were going, is frustrating.?

That one of our local rivals finished above us and got promoted, matters little.

The question I ask is WHY they finished higher up the league. If it was because they pay higher wages then I suggest it isn't a very level playing pitch. If that is the case I can't see any reason why they can afford to invest more in the team than we can in ours. If it is down to our obsession with self-sufficiency maybe our investment bar is set a little too low compared to theirs.

Obsession with self sufficiency? Pumping in £2m a year hardly fits with that description BB.

[silent majority]

He’s another player we could have potentially made a profit on but we let their contract expire. We are very poor in this scenario. Even if we only for 200-300k for him, that’s a lot of money for us.

We didn’t “let” his contract expire though - he was offered a new one ages ago but chose not to sign..

We can’t force players to sign.

We let it run into the last season. If we had offered an extension at the and of his first season I’m sure he would have signed. We can’t let saleable assets leave for free as often as we do.

Just a second here. He was only ever with us for 18 months, so to suggest we didn't extend his contract early enough was a nonsense, we hardly saw anything from him in the first 9 months or so to justify paying him top dollar.

[Bentley Bullet]

SM, the question is how much cash is pumped into Rotherham United every year in comparison.

[ravenrover]

Just my two penneth on this without the emotional attachment .

You guys say he is a very good player in league one which is fair enough and I wouldn't doubt it .

However he may have gone to the Championship but signing for Rotherham United suggests there wasn't exactly a host of clubs bidding for his signature .

There was a at least four or five of our players in our promotion team of 2018/19 who were top league one players , Cavare , McGeehan , Pinillos , Thiam .

And about four or five championship appearances behind them before they were binned on the strength they weren't good enough to make that step up .

He's signed for Rotherham , the best show in town as far as he's concerned .

You've lost a player to a local rival fair enough it ain't great but look at the bigger picture here .

All things point to a player who may not be up to the standard of championship football , if he was then Rotherham wouldn't be in the market for him .

He's freed up some spends .

Logical thinking on this one in my opinion .

Nothing at all logical about your post tbh Tyke. In fact probably just about wrong on every point. Simple question for you though, being a Barnsley supporter did you attend any Donny games this last season just gone?

After trying to discredit people saying he was going to Rotherham, your opinion means nothing, will you become New Miller now? P.S. Hulls relegation pissed on his bonfire a bit eh?

I think ND referred to to the wages situation Filo not thst he wasn't going to Rotherham
Also from what I've heard he was never going to Hull

[eight over]

Reading the comments above he sounds like a great prospect, PW has a habit of polishing rough diamonds.

All the best for next season

[Bentley Bullet]

Of course they will pay more they are a league above us
Did they pay more last season? I don’t know but then KS didn’t leave last season
If we are going on promotion equating to wages paid then Sunderland should have walked the league

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

[vaya]

Of course they will pay more they are a league above us
Did they pay more last season? I don’t know but then KS didn’t leave last season
If we are going on promotion equating to wages paid then Sunderland should have walked the league

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure Rotherham are likely to release that information. You could always ask though I suppose.

[Metalmicky]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

He’s another player we could have potentially made a profit on but we let their contract expire. We are very poor in this scenario. Even if we only for 200-300k for him, that’s a lot of money for us.

We didn’t “let” his contract expire though - he was offered a new one ages ago but chose not to sign..

We can’t force players to sign.

We let it run into the last season. If we had offered an extension at the and of his first season I’m sure he would have signed. We can’t let saleable assets leave for free as often as we do.

Yes, it's always the clubs fault isn't it GazLaz? Without any idea about the chain of events, your default stance is to always blame the club.

There are always more than one party involved and it's not always the case the we 'allowed' it to happen.

If your theory is true of the club then how come Marquis, Whiteman, Anderson and countless others before them accepted new terms? How bloody careless of the club for that to happen eh?

Just be adult enough to accept that sometimes a players ambition is beyond what we are able to play, pay, or both.

I don't know for the life of me why we have to drag these things out. We knew he was likely to go. He's gone. Get over it!

[Bentley Bullet]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

No it doesn't, but lack of it guarantees failure.

[idler]

At the end of the day they are a Championship club he will be playing better opposition and as he is on the verge of the Irish squad he will be in their sights more. Should that lead to being a regular squad or team player that will be on his cv and also be a bargaining chip in his next contract negotiations. You can't blame a player for wanting to better himself and it's not like he is at the beginning of his career.

[IDM]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

No it doesn't, but lack of it guarantees failure.

Does it.?

What was Wycombe’s wage bill last season.?

[EasyforDennis]

Because they finished higher in the league.?

Are you saying that a 9th place finish (Covid or not) under DM, after the palaver of last summer - plus the way we were playing under DM and the direction we were going, is frustrating.?

That one of our local rivals finished above us and got promoted, matters little.

The question I ask is WHY they finished higher up the league. If it was because they pay higher wages then I suggest it isn't a very level playing pitch. If that is the case I can't see any reason why they can afford to invest more in the team than we can in ours. If it is down to our obsession with self-sufficiency maybe our investment bar is set a little too low compared to theirs.

Obsession with self sufficiency? Pumping in £2m a year hardly fits with that description BB.

Weren't we told that just before Covid struck the club didn't need the £2m financial input now as with the success of Club Doncaster we were self sufficient?

[jmt23]

Didn't Sadlier have form for running contracts down. Im not sure the club could have done much in this case, other than break the bank to keep him.

is it a way of earning extra cash via signing on fees - I don't know?

New Donny was very well informed about all things Sadlier - was it him, his dad, his agent? Whoever it was, was very confident it wasn't Rotherham he would be playing for next season. I strongly suspect that clubs higher up lost interest in him, and he took Rotherham as a last option.
It is still a league higher, and I dare bet it has nearly doubled his wage. Good luck to him.

Somebody made the point about players fitting into a certain style where they flourish, and Rotherham not being a good fit for Sadlier - I am unsure if this is the case for Sadlier, but it is a great point. Who would have thought the lads we had here that are now playing at Sheff U in the Premier League, would ever do that?

[Bentley Bullet]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

No it doesn't, but lack of it guarantees failure.

Does it.?

What was Wycombe’s wage bill last season.?

I don't know, you tell me. There is always an exception to every rule, and if Wycombe have spent less money than anyone else below them in the league then that is an example of one of them. Having said that, such exceptions don't last and Wycombe will without any shadow of doubt struggle next season unless they invest more money into the team.

[tyke1962]

Just my two penneth on this without the emotional attachment .

You guys say he is a very good player in league one which is fair enough and I wouldn't doubt it .

However he may have gone to the Championship but signing for Rotherham United suggests there wasn't exactly a host of clubs bidding for his signature .

There was a at least four or five of our players in our promotion team of 2018/19 who were top league one players , Cavare , McGeehan , Pinillos , Thiam .

And about four or five championship appearances behind them before they were binned on the strength they weren't good enough to make that step up .

He's signed for Rotherham , the best show in town as far as he's concerned .

You've lost a player to a local rival fair enough it ain't great but look at the bigger picture here .

All things point to a player who may not be up to the standard of championship football , if he was then Rotherham wouldn't be in the market for him .

He's freed up some spends .

Logical thinking on this one in my opinion .

Nothing at all logical about your post tbh Tyke. In fact probably just about wrong on every point. Simple question for you though, being a Barnsley supporter did you attend any Donny games this last season just gone?

I'm just offering an alternative opinion .

What I do know is that there are a good number of championship clubs who would be in the market for a very good league one talent , probably half the league .

The way it's played out is that he's gone to a championship club who were in the same division as yourselves last season .

So the evidence suggests he's a speculative punt by Rotherham because that's the market they operate in at championship level .

[IDM]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

No it doesn't, but lack of it guarantees failure.

Does it.?

What was Wycombe’s wage bill last season.?

I don't know, you tell me. There is always an exception to every rule, and if Wycombe have spent less money than anyone else below them in the league then that is an example of one of them. Having said that, such exceptions don't last and Wycombe will without any shadow of doubt struggle next season unless they invest more money into the team.

The point is not having a big budget doesn’t guarantee failure.

You can get the combination of good management, decent players all hitting form together, a squad playing better than the sum of its parts, luck falling your way with 50/50 decisions, few injuries, developing a winning mentality and also playing supposedly richer opponents when they are in bad form..  a less wealthy club can definitely succeed at league 2 and 1 level.

One thing is certain, and I know you know this too, is that nothing is certain in football.!!

[DonnyOsmond]

Didn't Sadlier have form for running contracts down. Im not sure the club could have done much in this case, other than break the bank to keep him.

is it a way of earning extra cash via signing on fees - I don't know?

New Donny was very well informed about all things Sadlier - was it him, his dad, his agent? Whoever it was, was very confident it wasn't Rotherham he would be playing for next season. I strongly suspect that clubs higher up lost interest in him, and he took Rotherham as a last option.
It is still a league higher, and I dare bet it has nearly doubled his wage. Good luck to him.

Somebody made the point about players fitting into a certain style where they flourish, and Rotherham not being a good fit for Sadlier - I am unsure if this is the case for Sadlier, but it is a great point. Who would have thought the lads we had here that are now playing at Sheff U in the Premier League, would ever do that?

Are we sure New Donny wasn't just full of crap?

[ravenrover]

Yes we were sure he wasn't

[Bentley Bullet]

Lack of money most definitely does result in failure. That is not saying that spending money guarantees success, it doesn't, and I've never said it does.

Occasionally in football, there are exceptions to the rule and lower budgeted teams find initial, short term success. However, this type of success has a fluke element to it and cannot be sustained without proper financial investment that is competitive with other clubs you are competing against.

[graingrover]

BB why are you on here ?

[drfchound]

Yes we were sure he wasn't

Agreed.

[RoversAlias]

ND was 100% informed on Kieran Sadlier and his movements. No doubt about that.

Bentley - I understand your starting point here. We are of comparable size and stature to Rotherham and taking only that into account shouldn't be left in the dust by them. However...

In 2014 they got into the Championship under Steve Evans as we fell out of it. We subsequently trundled into oblivion for a couple of years whilst they spent three consecutive seasons at that level, and although they were seasons of struggle they allowed Rotherham United to build a stronger foundation since this was a time period when the Championship got ever further away from League One in terms of finance and resource. 2020/21 will be the fifth season in seven that the Millers have spent as a second tier club.

Add to that the continuity they've had by sticking with Paul Warne for the past four seasons (including two relegations) and it is plain to see why they have a better starting point to us when in League One with us.

Until we get that stability and a good platform to be in the Championship it will simply be harder for us to compete than our neighbours.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB why are you on here ?

Graingrover, what is your reason for asking that question? Are you suggesting that, in the capacity of a supporter, I shouldn't express my opinion and should instead be a happy clapping super fan?

[pib]

ND was 100% informed on Kieran Sadlier and his movements. No doubt about that.

Bentley - I understand your starting point here. We are of comparable size and stature to Rotherham and taking only that into account shouldn't be left in the dust by them. However...

In 2014 they got into the Championship under Steve Evans as we fell out of it. We subsequently trundled into oblivion for a couple of years whilst they spent three consecutive seasons at that level, and although they were seasons of struggle they allowed Rotherham United to build a stronger foundation since this was a time period when the Championship got ever further away from League One in terms of finance and resource. 2020/21 will be the fifth season in seven that the Millers have spent as a second tier club.

Add to that the continuity they've had by sticking with Paul Warne for the past four seasons (including two relegations) and it is plain to see why they have a better starting point to us when in League One with us.

Until we get that stability and a good platform to be in the Championship it will simply be harder for us to compete than our neighbours.

Football is cyclical. We had our run being in and out of the Championship when they were in the depths of L2 without a ground and a pot to piss in.

They have a similar figure to JR as chairman whose enthusiasm and backing seems to be driving their ambitions. They have a lot in common with us from 2007-14. (This is not me saying our current board aren't ambitious or aren't backing the club btw)

You probably have a point about them dropping on in terms of when they've been in the Championship and what they've been able to do, but a large part of me thinks that both clubs will have good times and "bad" times again. Very similar clubs, with similar grounds, support bases etc. I think both clubs will probably oscillate between lower-Championship and upper-L2 for decades to come.

They're having their moment now, and that's fair enough. It just so happened that when we were in the Championship they probably didn't have many players we wanted to poach. Even SOD probably didn't fancy his chances turning Kevin Ellison or Tom Pope into a Championship player.

[vaya]

Always liked Ellison as a player. Bit of a blunt instrument but always seemed to cause us trouble when he faced us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The question was did Rotherham pay out more wages for their team than we did last season?

Not sure what relevance that question has - totally hypothetical........ money doesn't equal success - ask Sunderland.

No it doesn't, but lack of it guarantees failure.

Does it.?

What was Wycombe’s wage bill last season.?

I don't know, you tell me. There is always an exception to every rule, and if Wycombe have spent less money than anyone else below them in the league then that is an example of one of them. Having said that, such exceptions don't last and Wycombe will without any shadow of doubt struggle next season unless they invest more money into the team.

1) "Lack of investment ensures failure."

2) Example given of what is almost certainly one of the lowest funded clubs in the division succeeding.

3) "Ah well, yeah, err, APART from the ones who succeed on low investment."

[Campsall rover]

ND was 100% informed on Kieran Sadlier and his movements. No doubt about that.

Bentley - I understand your starting point here. We are of comparable size and stature to Rotherham and taking only that into account shouldn't be left in the dust by them. However...

In 2014 they got into the Championship under Steve Evans as we fell out of it. We subsequently trundled into oblivion for a couple of years whilst they spent three consecutive seasons at that level, and although they were seasons of struggle they allowed Rotherham United to build a stronger foundation since this was a time period when the Championship got ever further away from League One in terms of finance and resource. 2020/21 will be the fifth season in seven that the Millers have spent as a second tier club.

Add to that the continuity they've had by sticking with Paul Warne for the past four seasons (including two relegations) and it is plain to see why they have a better starting point to us when in League One with us.

Until we get that stability and a good platform to be in the Championship it will simply be harder for us to compete than our neighbours.

Bang on Alias.
If we can keep Darren Moore at the club for 3/4/5 years we will have that stability we need to progress as a club on the field.
Clubs who persistently sack or lose their managers every season are long term failures or at a minimum do not achieve their Footballing objectives ( promotion in most cases ) That is almost a given.
The evidence is staring us all in the face.