Channel 4 Black Take Over Day

[belton rover]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-53902092

Some schools have ‘Student Take Over Days’ where, for a bit of fun, students effectively pretend they are adults for the day. The next day, and for the rest of the year, they are merely children again.

It seems for one day only, Channel 4 think it’s a good idea to put only black people on the screens all day (just for the day, mind) and then immediately revert back to a predominately white line up.

Instead of pretending they are doing the right thing, why don’t they just employ more black people?

[Axholme Lion]

Or, here's a radical thought why don't they just employ the best person for the job regardless of colour, sex or religion?

[belton rover]

I don’t necessarily disagree with that, Axholme.
It’s the ridiculous notion that this ‘take over day’ in some way helps. At best, I think it’s patronising.

[Axholme Lion]

I don’t necessarily disagree with that, Axholme.
It’s the ridiculous notion that this ‘take over day’ in some way helps. At best, I think it’s patronising.

It is. if I was black I would be well pissed off with that.

[knockers]

Well that's blown my vision of you out of the water!

[BillyStubbsTears]

AL:

It's a pretty simple idea. It's about planting seeds in the next generation's head of what might be possible. If all you see is a string of white, middle-class male faces running the country, kids who don't fit that stereotype will mostly grow up never imagining that they could be the ones running the country.

It's about aspiration.

I'll give you a personal example. In the mid 80s, in my year group at Mexborough 6th Form, there were four of us who got straight-As at A-level. That was comfortable Oxbridge entry standard in those days. But the concept of us applying to Oxbridge was never even discussed between us or by the teachers. I'd considered applying and decided not to do so, precisely because of the image I had in my head of it being a place for the privileged upper class. That image was probably wrong, but it was the one I had absorbed. I'd pretty much subconsciously decided that Oxbridge just couldn't be for the likes of me. If I'd seen examples of kids from places like Denaby studying at Oxbridge, that would have challenged my preconception. As it is, it's like that the places that the four of us at Meccy 6th Form never applied for went to less qualified kids from a background where they expected to go to Oxbridge.

You say "why don't they just employ the best person?" That's precisely the idea. If you're fishing in a restricted, self-selecting pool because most people don't even consider the possibility of being considered, or have the aspiration to play that role, you are almost certainly NOT getting the best person for the job.

[belton rover]

AL:

It's a pretty simple idea. It's about planting seeds in the next generation's head of what might be possible. If all you see is a string of white, middle-class male faces running the country, kids who don't fit that stereotype will mostly grow up never imagining that they could be the ones running the country.

It's about aspiration.

I'll give you a personal example. In the mid 80s, in my year group at Mexborough 6th Form, there were four of us who got straight-As at A-level. That was comfortable Oxbridge entry standard in those days. But the concept of us applying to Oxbridge was never even discussed between us or by the teachers. I'd considered applying and decided not to do so, precisely because of the image I had in my head of it being a place for the privileged upper class. That image was probably wrong, but it was the one I had absorbed. I'd pretty much subconsciously decided that Oxbridge just couldn't be for the likes of me. If I'd seen examples of kids from places like Denaby studying at Oxbridge, that would have challenged my preconception. As it is, it's like that the places that the four of us at Meccy 6th Form never applied for went to less qualified kids from a background where they expected to go to Oxbridge.

You say "why don't they just employ the best person?" That's precisely the idea. If you're fishing in a restricted, self-selecting pool because most people don't even consider the possibility of being considered, or have the aspiration to play that role, you are almost certainly NOT getting the best person for the job.

I’m assuming this is your way of saying you finally wash your hands of me, Billy. I’ve took the letter down now you’ve made it clear.

On your post, it IS a very simple idea, but not a very good one.

In my opinion, of course.

[bpoolrover]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

[Axholme Lion]

AL:

It's a pretty simple idea. It's about planting seeds in the next generation's head of what might be possible. If all you see is a string of white, middle-class male faces running the country, kids who don't fit that stereotype will mostly grow up never imagining that they could be the ones running the country.

It's about aspiration.

I'll give you a personal example. In the mid 80s, in my year group at Mexborough 6th Form, there were four of us who got straight-As at A-level. That was comfortable Oxbridge entry standard in those days. But the concept of us applying to Oxbridge was never even discussed between us or by the teachers. I'd considered applying and decided not to do so, precisely because of the image I had in my head of it being a place for the privileged upper class. That image was probably wrong, but it was the one I had absorbed. I'd pretty much subconsciously decided that Oxbridge just couldn't be for the likes of me. If I'd seen examples of kids from places like Denaby studying at Oxbridge, that would have challenged my preconception. As it is, it's like that the places that the four of us at Meccy 6th Form never applied for went to less qualified kids from a background where they expected to go to Oxbridge.

You say "why don't they just employ the best person?" That's precisely the idea. If you're fishing in a restricted, self-selecting pool because most people don't even consider the possibility of being considered, or have the aspiration to play that role, you are almost certainly NOT getting the best person for the job.

I don't see how blacks are under represented on TV. Look at BBC newsreaders for example. I would say there are more than their actual percentage of the population. I don't care who does the job as long as they can do it properly, however what I would say is that if you are a black woman from the South East you have far more chance of being a TV presenter than say a white, working class man from Workington, so I don't see the point of it all.

[MachoMadness]

I think, in a way, this is a way of employing more black people. Or at least of commissioning more black shows. But I partially agree with Belton that these things come across as patronising if they're not backed up by real change. If more shows are commissioned off the back of it then it'll be a success. The problem is the media love these empty gestures which has me sceptical. Like when they went around editing offensive bits out of Fawlty Towers - nobody in BLM gives a f**k about that, and all it does it detract from the real issues.

[SydneyRover]

They appear to know what they want and how to go about it, let's hear from the bame people on the forum to see what they say?

Channel 4 to hold 'black takeover' day

"It will be much more than a day of eye-catching programming, providing a focal point for our efforts to drive up on and off screen representation and leaving a lasting legacy on the channel and beyond."

‘’Kelly Webb-Lamb, deputy director of programmes and head of popular factual said: "This project involves every slot, every genre, and every corner of the channel, and will therefore be the most radical and meaningful intervention into diversity in the channel's history."’’

[Janso]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

[bpoolrover]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

no but feel free to prove me wrong about how popular it is

[bpoolrover]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7852811/amp/Channel-4-ratings-slump-number-programmes-100-drops-fifth.html

[bpoolrover]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/lifestyle/entertainment/channel-4-news-doubles-its-audience-among-younger-viewers/amp/ I got a link for you to save you the bother, maybe we could watch bake off together?

[belton rover]

If i was cynical, i might have said it was a thinly vailed attempt to improve ratings.
Thankfully, I’m not.

[Janso]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

no but feel free to prove me wrong about how popular it is

"I'll make a claim and it's up to you to disprove it."

Not sure you've quite grasped how this works, mate.

[belton rover]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

no but feel free to prove me wrong about how popular it is

"I'll make a claim and it's up to you to disprove it."

Not sure you've quite grasped how this works, mate.

One day, Janso, you will be as good as BST.
You’ve a long way to go, but don’t give up.

[Bentley Bullet]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

no but feel free to prove me wrong about how popular it is

"I'll make a claim and it's up to you to disprove it."

Not sure you've quite grasped how this works, mate.

When someone makes a statement you either believe it or you don't. If you want to disprove the statement it is your prerogative.

[Janso]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

no but feel free to prove me wrong about how popular it is

"I'll make a claim and it's up to you to disprove it."

Not sure you've quite grasped how this works, mate.

When someone makes a statement you either believe it or you don't. If you want to disprove the statement it is your prerogative.

So people should just be able to say whatever they want and when challenged expect you to prove them wrong?

Do you not think people have to back up the things they've said then?

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes, people should be able to say what they want. If you want to disprove the statement it is your prerogative.

People should be able to back up what they've said when possible, although sometimes when it is an opinion based on personal experience it is not always possible.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's a hierarchy isn't there? Of how much value should be given to statements.

Top of the list is a claim which can be supported by a source that has a string record of being right.

Bottom of the list is an opinion from someone who more often than not gets stuff wrong, with no supporting source.

Everything else comes somewhere in between.

I had great hopes for the internet that it would facilitate a world where every discussion was based on a foundation of agreed facts from somewhere near the top of that hierarchy. Experience is suggesting that I was naive in my optimism.

[Janso]

Yes, people should be able to say what they want. If you want to disprove the statement it is your prerogative.

People should be able to back up what they've said when possible, although sometimes when it is an opinion based on personal experience it is not always possible.

But stating that not many people do something is surely trying to present this as a fact, no? I assume you do accept that when you do that, you should also be willing to defend the fact that you're trying to present?

[belton rover]

There’s certainly a hierarchy on here.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yes, people should be able to say what they want. If you want to disprove the statement it is your prerogative.

People should be able to back up what they've said when possible, although sometimes when it is an opinion based on personal experience it is not always possible.

But stating that not many people do something is surely trying to present this as a fact, no? I assume you do accept that when you do that, you should also be willing to defend the fact that you're trying to present?

I don't know what you mean.

[belton rover]

The trouble with agreed facts, is they are used to debate for and against something, and anywhere in between. This is fine, until debater 1 refuses to accept that the agreed fact might give debater 2 a different opinion.

The simplest example I can think of is the old ‘glass half empty/half full scenario.

Let’s say that debater 1 states that the glass is half full. Because debater 1’s opinion is top of the hierarchy, he/she provides a link to Professor Positive’s paper from the ‘Positive People’s‘ Website.
Debater 1 then says ‘There you go - that’s what I think, and there’s the evidence.

Then debater 2 (whose opinion derives from much lower down the hierarchy) suggests that, actually, the glass is half empty because, clearly, half of it is missing.

‘Yes, but where is the evidence?‘ cry those with opinions at the echelons of the hierarchy.

‘It’s just my opinion, based on what I have seen.’ replies debater 2.

‘Then you and your opinions are unworthy and shall not be respected. We’ll have no unlinked opinions here’. As the elite pat each other on the back.

THAT’S the problem when people have a perception of hierarchy of opinion on a forum like this, where many different people:  different by age, education, beliefs, nationality, gender, race etc, etc, etc, are ALL entitled to their opinion, and they are entitled to give that opinion in any way they wish.

And, of course, barring offensive behaviour/language, all opinions should be respected.

[drfchound]

Ah, but can you back that up belton. 

[belton rover]

Ah, but can you back that up belton. 

Actually, yes I can, hound:

I found this quote on Twitter/Guardian website/bbcnews/etc:

‘belton is right.
Signed:
Professor Beltonsmam‘

[drfchound]

Well thats allright then.
Who ( i wonder ) will argue with that.

[bpoolrover]

The good news is very few watch channel 4 anyway

Presumably you've got the figures to back this up.

no but feel free to prove me wrong about how popular it is

"I'll make a claim and it's up to you to disprove it."

Not sure you've quite grasped how this works, mate.

i have sent you 2 links one backing my theory up and one more backing yours up yet you seem not to have mentioned them? Out of interest apart from the odd program do you or any of your friends watch channel 4 often?