NHS Test and Trace App

[IDM]

It is a serious point though, an app as important as this should work on older phone types too.

As for me, my concern with this isn’t about privacy it’s more about how accurately it works and false positives, ie if you walk past someone very briefly ie a few seconds - who has the app live and who later tests positive, will I get asked to self isolate.? 

How much is “close contact”.?

I’m sure when they launched the test and trace call scheme the advice was to send in contact details of people who you had been within 2 metres of for 15 mins or so.?

That works ideally for public transport and the workplace but omits people whose details you don’t know - which the app can cover.  However, does the app have the same contact distance/time limits or more stringent ones.?

I would like to see more details on this.

[Not Now Kato]

It is a serious point though, an app as important as this should work on older phone types too.

As for me, my concern with this isn’t about privacy it’s more about how accurately it works and false positives, ie if you walk past someone very briefly ie a few seconds - who has the app live and who later tests positive, will I get asked to self isolate.? 

How much is “close contact”.?

I’m sure when they launched the test and trace call scheme the advice was to send in contact details of people who you had been within 2 metres of for 15 mins or so.?

That works ideally for public transport and the workplace but omits people whose details you don’t know - which the app can cover.  However, does the app have the same contact distance/time limits or more stringent ones.?

I would like to see more details on this.

Sadly, as technology progresses, there will be things that simply cannot work on older devices and operating systems.  It has always been thus.  The issue has been exacerbated by Apple particularly as they have consistently imposed limits on the implementation of 'standards' on their devices and operating systems - one of the major obstacles in getting seamless communications between Apple and Android mobile devices.

[drfchound]

I've downloaded the app.

Not the most auspicious start for new tech.

Very first thing it asks you to do is to enter the first letter(s) and numbers of your postcode. Like DN12. I do this and it tells me I've entered an incorrect postcode.

Except I haven't. I'm looking at it and it's the right one. So I hit "Enter" again and it tells me it's an incorrect postcode.

After 5 goes I realise I've inadvertently put a space after the number. I delete the space and all is good.

Minor issue but it doesn't bode well for the quality of the app design. If it's not going to accept a space character, why allow you to enter a space character?

BST, you can’t seriously blame the APP for your input error.
Anyone should know that you don’t leave a space between the DN and the 12.
If I went to post say, a Hermes parcel, and did the same thing then their system wouldn’t accept the postcode.
Is it any different to missing a letter or a dot out of an email address or putting a space between part of the address.
Come on, you can’t always be right.

Hound.

I didn't. As I clearly said, I put a space AFTER the number.

Yep, I see that now. Apologies for misquoting you.
However it was still your error and not a fault of the system.

[MachoMadness]

I see his point though, hound. A lot of people who'll really need this app won't be comfortable with technology, so they could come across a problem like that, not realise what's gone on, and just give up with it when the solution is simple. Hopefully it's something they patch later. It should be a simple fix. It seems like a fairly basic thing for a scheme that we've spent £12bn on so far, according to Sunak today.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've downloaded the app.

Not the most auspicious start for new tech.

Very first thing it asks you to do is to enter the first letter(s) and numbers of your postcode. Like DN12. I do this and it tells me I've entered an incorrect postcode.

Except I haven't. I'm looking at it and it's the right one. So I hit "Enter" again and it tells me it's an incorrect postcode.

After 5 goes I realise I've inadvertently put a space after the number. I delete the space and all is good.

Minor issue but it doesn't bode well for the quality of the app design. If it's not going to accept a space character, why allow you to enter a space character?

BST, you can’t seriously blame the APP for your input error.
Anyone should know that you don’t leave a space between the DN and the 12.
If I went to post say, a Hermes parcel, and did the same thing then their system wouldn’t accept the postcode.
Is it any different to missing a letter or a dot out of an email address or putting a space between part of the address.
Come on, you can’t always be right.

Hound.

I didn't. As I clearly said, I put a space AFTER the number.

Yep, I see that now. Apologies for misquoting you.
However it was still your error and not a fault of the system.

No problem.

Yes, of course it was my error, but it is a dead easy one to design against. Either read the text regardless of the space or don't allow spaces to be used. Or flash up a message saying "please use only letters and spaces". It would have taken thirty seconds and with something like this, it is very important that the design has been thought through carefully. I really don't like bad design. It smacks of thoughtlessness or rushing.

[ravenrover]

What is crazy?
that it doesn't work on older phones or having a go at Wa*cock?
Asked for his thoughts on the fact that older people or low income families might not have a modern or even any kind of phone he twisted the question totally saying he shouldn't be held responsible for people not having phones.

[idler]

I used to have a smart phone. It was bigger than I wanted although smaller than a lot. It was forever running low on charge and most of the apps and functions I never used.
I now have a Doro clam type that I can use to ring,text and take a photo.
That's all that I want it for and I pay £7:50 a month and never run out of minutes. The downside of not being able to scan barcodes etc. doesn't cause me any problems.

[drfchound]

You should see the phone my wife uses idler. It is so old it runs on gas. She just refuses to swap it and turns it off as soon as she has checked messages or made a call.

[idler]

That sounds like my mother-in-law. She will phone or text and then a lot of the time immediately turns if off meaning she is immediately not available for a reply.
It might be an age thing she's 86 and has a Doro like me and the wife.

[Filo]

It would be interesting to know how many downloads of the app there was today

[Donnywolf]

thirty million forty five with sixty hundreds and four said priti patel

[Donnywolf]

Dont forget to tell Marr - thats capacity - wave hands skywards - and thats ramping up to 500 000 soon =- well as soon as we can

Yesterday you did 82151 Tests - hardly world beating - ah yes but dont forget that capacity rising and rising

How many people were tested and how many swabs did you stick in each of them - SO (always a prelude to a non answer) - as the PM says Moonshot will uprate capacity to a million a day

Marr - answer you were not going to give is 51854 people tested as quite a few of them were double swabbed as there were just over 80000 tests done (thats what he would have said had he been an inquisitive diligent interviewer

[roverstillidie91]

Downloaded it today doesn't seem too bad and it doesn't ask for any personal details or anything.

On the upside the more people that download it the more the population especially vulnerable, elderly and with underlying health conditions will be protected as if they get tested they will be self isolating... well you would like to hope they are and reduce the spread.

Plus it might get the trials back at Football if the rates are brought down again.

Inevitably the more people that download it and give feedback on it then the app can be improved and there was an update on it only yesterday as it has  been highlighted there will be regular updates to improve it.

[Muttley]

Do you need to leave the app active on your phone at all times? Or does it work in the background even if you close the app?

[Janso]

I think it just works in the background?

[DonnyOsmond]

You only need Bluetooth active.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I was saying, it feels like there's been some poor design in this app.

It appears that if you register symptoms on the app, then have a test which comes back negative, you cannot enter that test result. And the app continues to tell you to self-isolate.

Given that 96% of people with symptoms who have tests get a negative test result, this basically affects pretty much everyone.

How could that not have been picked up in the app development?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54307526

[Bentley Bullet]

I blame Boris. He's a shit computer programmer.

[DonnyOsmond]

As I was saying, it feels like there's been some poor design in this app.

It appears that if you register symptoms on the app, then have a test which comes back negative, you cannot enter that test result. And the app continues to tell you to self-isolate.

Given that 96% of people with symptoms who have tests get a negative test result, this basically affects pretty much everyone.

How could that not have been picked up in the app development?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54307526

All apps make lots of updates fixing bugs within the first couple of weeks of live release. You won't pick up everything in alpha and beta.

[DonnyOsmond]

Now this I can't defend.

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1309756246321438721?s=19

How can an "NHS" app not validate an NHS test?

[Filo]

Now this I can't defend.

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1309756246321438721?s=19

How can an "NHS" app not validate an NHS test?

And on that note I’ve now uninstalled the app, totall useless if it only recognises serco tests

[BillyStubbsTears]

DO.

I'd hardly call it a "bug" if 96% of people tested can't enter the fact that their test result was negative.

But yes, that fact that people who have had tests through the NHS can't enter the data on what is called an NHS app (but actually of course, is a Servo/Deloitte app) is simply breathtaking.

[ravenrover]

Can we pleae stop calling it the NHS app or the NHS track and trace, it's wrong just wrong

[Donnywolf]

With a compliant media the seed is already sewn and nobody in the media can (even if they try) dislodge the messages / suggestions that are put there by the Government

In the NHS example above you are absolutely right - it ISN'T NHS Track and Trace but it is there and spouted at every opportunity

Wonder if when Johnson gets round to flooging off the NHS (which of course he said he wouldnt) will Track and Trace be hailed as an example of why the NHS has to go as "it" repeatedly failed during the pandemic

Almost certainly yes

[i_ateallthepies]

The 'advert' shown on telly last night encouraging people to download it actually has 'NHS Track and Trace' emblazoned on the screen throughout.

[Donnywolf]

Johnson aint going to let us forget its NHS Track and Trace despite what others are saying

He will get it in at every opportunity and like (I feel childishly) his other sh*tty statements " A stitch in Time" is the latest fit them into every session at which he speaks - and must insist that all the minions do the same.

Hancock and others just cant wait to get in "Super simple" Rules and we've got Hands Face Space doing the rounds as well as Build Build Build and all the other stuff they cant wait to trot out. Its like a sword of damocles - you know its coming - its just when they choose to get it in

Still reckon the NHS one is there simply to point to its failings even though D Harding has presided over the s**t storm and even though you cant enter NHS supplied results into the (supposed) NHS Track and Trace App which is "Quite Sh*te Right ?"

[i_ateallthepies]

"Quite Sh*te Right ?"  now you're getting into the spirit, Wolfie.  Yours is one they should adopt to sum up their handling of the crisis.

[rich1471]

I got a text today to download track and trace from the NHS and all it is called NHS covid 19 app on the app store and the NHS is on all the QR codes in shop windows to scan , what a scam and a load of shit if you cannot put your results on their unless it was done private 

[Janso]

Surely they'll be adding the ability to do so soon? Bit of a shambles if not.

Didn't Germany offer us the use of the one they'd designed for nothing months ago?

[silent majority]

Now this I can't defend.

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1309756246321438721?s=19

How can an "NHS" app not validate an NHS test?

And on that note I’ve now uninstalled the app, totall useless if it only recognises serco tests

Hows that social conscience of yours shaping up?