Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 02:29:13 am

Login with username, password and session length

Links


FSA logo

Author Topic: End child poverty  (Read 5749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bentley Bullet

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 19304
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #30 on October 22, 2020, 05:48:40 pm by Bentley Bullet »
MM. Who said anything about tarring them with the same brush? I certainly didn't! And why should they not be condemned just because you think they are 'few and far between?'

You said:  "I've worked with people in this kind of poverty before, and I can assure you I never met a single one of them who'd get a new iPhone every year before they fed their kids."  If they can afford a new iPhone after their kids have been fed by someone else I question the morality of that. Don't you? And, surely they are not in desperate poverty if they can do that, and if they are skint it's because they are spending all their money on non-essentials, instead of food. Don't you agree?



(want to hide these ads? Join the VSC today!)

ravenrover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 9511
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #31 on October 22, 2020, 06:13:41 pm by ravenrover »
You do know that this is all happening under capitalism, don't you? I was starting to think there were a few things even you wouldn't use to bait the lefties, BB. Obviously starving kids isn't one of them.

MM, this often doesn't go down well with your generation, but there's a difference between being skint and just about managing as you describe and being below the poverty line. This generation is going through hardships that yours couldn't even imagine. Most parents in poverty are in work - https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/what-has-driven-rise-work-poverty - some in several jobs. Many are on insecure zero hour contracts. There's no safety net there for them. If you ate well, you were lucky. Privileged. Kids today are not so lucky. I assure you, you're getting annoyed at the wrong thing.

If you have an iPhone, loads of tattoos and smoke cigs you are not in poverty. That is a life choice on how you spend money.
I don't have a phone, computer or foreign holidays, I put my money into my home, it is my life choice.
Just out of interest AL but no phone or computer, how do you manage to post on here?

Filo

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 29821
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #32 on October 22, 2020, 06:17:06 pm by Filo »
In fairness, here's a Tory MP who has but morals before her own job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54642788

Or is she in a marginal seat and voted in a way to keep her seat

Filo

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 29821
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #33 on October 22, 2020, 06:20:03 pm by Filo »
You do know that this is all happening under capitalism, don't you? I was starting to think there were a few things even you wouldn't use to bait the lefties, BB. Obviously starving kids isn't one of them.

MM, this often doesn't go down well with your generation, but there's a difference between being skint and just about managing as you describe and being below the poverty line. This generation is going through hardships that yours couldn't even imagine. Most parents in poverty are in work - https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/what-has-driven-rise-work-poverty - some in several jobs. Many are on insecure zero hour contracts. There's no safety net there for them. If you ate well, you were lucky. Privileged. Kids today are not so lucky. I assure you, you're getting annoyed at the wrong thing.

If you have an iPhone, loads of tattoos and smoke cigs you are not in poverty. That is a life choice on how you spend money.
I don't have a phone, computer or foreign holidays, I put my money into my home, it is my life choice.

How do you access the internet and post on a forum?

DonnyNoel

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2617
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #34 on October 22, 2020, 06:52:08 pm by DonnyNoel »
MM. Who said anything about tarring them with the same brush? I certainly didn't! And why should they not be condemned just because you think they are 'few and far between?'

You said:  "I've worked with people in this kind of poverty before, and I can assure you I never met a single one of them who'd get a new iPhone every year before they fed their kids."  If they can afford a new iPhone after their kids have been fed by someone else I question the morality of that. Don't you? And, surely they are not in desperate poverty if they can do that, and if they are skint it's because they are spending all their money on non-essentials, instead of food. Don't you agree?


But it's irrelevant, because we're talking about the children not the parents.

And I would think the %age of benefits claimants who fritter their money away on such "luxuries" is minimal, despite what a BAFTA winning Channel 5 documentary has potrayed.


(Plus, I actually think you've misread the post you've quoted)

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #35 on October 22, 2020, 07:19:36 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
It really annoys me that we have a society that can't cook at home and then essentially waste money on takeaways and eating out that costs 3 or 4 times the amount that it would to produce a healthier, more filling meal at home. Many can't or don't want to cook, but others are just plain lazy and then complain that they don't have the money to feed their kids. 

Like it or not there are many 'professional' benefits claimers out there who could do more to ensure their offspring are well fed and watered.....and it might help matters if you didn't see them smoking & drinking regularly, and have the latest phones, wide screen TV, Sky package etc.

It's a real shame that kids go starving and in this "comfortable" society we live in there's the need for food banks to provide nourishment for young families to survive ...... however, I do really get a little disenchanted when I see parents covered in £1000's worth of tattoo's, smoking cigs at a tenner a packet and networking with their mates on their iPhone 11's, whilst shoving their offspring forward with the other hand, starving because they haven't had any breakfast... They have lost any sense of personal responsibility and it's utterly disgusting - try to prioritise your number one life responsibility.  FEED YOUR CHILDREN.

IMO it is all about priorities.... correctly organised priorities.... just like my parents prioritised...... When I was a kid my family were skint - as were lots of the family's around us.  It may have been hid behind closed doors, but I don’t recall anyone not being able to feed their kids.  True, we didn’t eat like kings and we maybe ate cheaper meats and loads of veg and spuds because they were cheap... but we ate well.  I have (and still could) easily feed a young adult/child on less than £20 p/w - including treats.  It doesn't cost much to eat -healthy food is available and buying it should be the first priority not the last.

Unfortunately we have a generation of crap parents that are being led by a nanny state... which in turn will/have produced crap parents depending on a nanny state.  Having kids isn't a right - it's a huge responsibility.

Totally agree with every word there.

Aye. Those parents grab the headlines. The ones who are working flat out on minimum wage precarious jobs get ignored.

Bentley Bullet

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 19304
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #36 on October 22, 2020, 07:26:50 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Do you mean those on minimum wage who are working flat out whose priority is to feed their kids or those who put luxuries first and leave their kids to be fed by the state?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 08:10:01 pm by Bentley Bullet »

Metalmicky

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 5382
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #37 on October 22, 2020, 07:38:54 pm by Metalmicky »
You do know that this is all happening under capitalism, don't you? I was starting to think there were a few things even you wouldn't use to bait the lefties, BB. Obviously starving kids isn't one of them.

MM, this often doesn't go down well with your generation, but there's a difference between being skint and just about managing as you describe and being below the poverty line. This generation is going through hardships that yours couldn't even imagine. Most parents in poverty are in work - https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/what-has-driven-rise-work-poverty - some in several jobs. Many are on insecure zero hour contracts. There's no safety net there for them. If you ate well, you were lucky. Privileged. Kids today are not so lucky. I assure you, you're getting annoyed at the wrong thing.

I'm guessing you've assumed what 'my generation' is and then padded it out to suit.  However, I do have a bit of a handle on the hardships involved and working voluntarily for the Youth Offending Service has given me more of an insight to these.  I also have colleagues who work with homeless children where I live and who increasingly see cases of child neglect and children who have had to leave home because of neglect and abuse.  There are without doubt people working hard to provide for there kids, however there are also a large number who don't work, don't care and are riding the social welfare wave... 

I'm no fan of this present government.... however they can't/shouldn't pay welfare twice - it's not a bottomless pot.  There maybe a case for a proportion of welfare to be in the form of food vouchers rather than cash - I don't know......  but there is no way that someone on benefits should be unable to feed their children - the only thing preventing this is the parent/s.  Many rely on the state for everything and have lost any sense of personal responsibility and it's utterly disgusting. 

Janso

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2033
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #38 on October 22, 2020, 07:43:32 pm by Janso »
What always gets me is the amount of older folk who are of the mindset that because their life was hard, and in some cases, shit, everyone else's should be too.

tommy toes

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 3517
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #39 on October 22, 2020, 08:45:36 pm by tommy toes »
I'm an older folk.
My generation were one of the luckiest ever.
Easy to get a job and a career.
Easy to get a mortgage on an affordable decent house.
Free healthcare and immunisation and if you were as lucky as me a great NHS pension.
My parents had to share a house with relatives and me dad's wages were crap down the pit.
And working class kids today are even worse off in every way.

wilts rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 10146
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #40 on October 22, 2020, 08:57:58 pm by wilts rover »
So people were happy to contribute to the Eat Out To Help Out which subsidised meals for well-off families - cost £500 million (and begun the rise in infections for 2nd wave)

But not provide free school meals for a week for less well off families affected by a pandemic - cost £20 million.

Have a nice day.

5minstogo

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 1866
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #41 on October 22, 2020, 09:59:00 pm by 5minstogo »
Maybe now would be a good time to arrange a joint donation to a local food bank?

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #42 on October 22, 2020, 10:12:00 pm by SydneyRover »
Maybe those with all the skills and advice on how to cook and how to budget should volunteer their time and use their expertise to help these families manage. It's a shame to waste all that knowledge here on the forum.

drfchound

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 29201
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #43 on October 22, 2020, 10:14:06 pm by drfchound »
Could the same use be made of the political experts too?

SydneyRover

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13582
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #44 on October 22, 2020, 10:22:09 pm by SydneyRover »
politicians don't seem appear to be very appreciative of advice hound look how long it's taken them to understand that the world class multibillion pound test and trace system is nothing but a crock.

UK 7 richest and 205 worst out of 217 death/million the politicians are doing fine witout my input.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 10:26:26 pm by SydneyRover »

bobjimwilly

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 12200
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #45 on October 22, 2020, 11:43:34 pm by bobjimwilly »
Anyone who thinks it's ok for the government to spend £150m on unusable PPE masks, or £500m so families can eat out for half-price, or give £13.8m to a ferry company with no ferries, but won't spend anything to ensure kids don't go hungry over the coming school holidays, is a scumbag. And don't try to convince anyone otherwise; just go look in the mirror and admit it to yourself - your are a scumbag.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 11:46:57 pm by bobjimwilly »

BillyStubbsTears

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 36604
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #46 on October 23, 2020, 12:09:23 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Worse than just spending £150m on unusable facemasks. Spending £150m on unusable facemasks supplied by a company that won a contract with no public tender, that had no previous record in sourcing and supplying medical PPE, that actually has a background in pest control equipment, and that made a big point in its case for being awarded the uncompeted contract by saying that they had some family in China who could help them. Oh yeah, and that the MD's wife was a vet...

Oh aye. And a company, that had net assets of £18,047 in its last filed accounts, shortly before it was awarded a total of £340m of contracts to supply PPE.

Oh aye. And when they were awarded one of the small contracts to supply nitrile gloves, this was what the MD posted on LinkedIn.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ekb9SmJU0AECaD5?format=jpg&name=900x900

Oh aye, and those contracts were awarded in April. And our very own law says that the Govt must publish the details of contracts it awards within 30 days. Precisely so that there is a spotlight to show up this sort of corrupt incompetence. And they published them...last week.

And as you say BJW, the self same MPs who voted last night to deny free school meals over the holidays, and criticised the likes of Rashford as "virtue-signallers" have made not one whimper of public criticism about that outrage.
 

Donnywolf

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 20050
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #47 on October 23, 2020, 06:04:40 am by Donnywolf »
Maybe now would be a good time to arrange a joint donation to a local food bank?

From what I have read locally DMBC are going to provide the "missing" School Meals ***

I presume that the amount it costs means other things that are already underfunded will be more underfunded now and those things that they are just managing to keep going will now be underfunded

In another gesture I saw a local Chippy has said during the period when the kids are not getting the meals THEY will offer a basic Fishcake and Chips or Sausage and Chips FREE becasue they said "We are all in this together" - very public spirited - some wont agree of course

I am assuming both these scenarios will be played out across "most" of the UK.

*** Looking at this Thread and Facebook and Twitter it is obvious that there is a huge chasm of opinion already on the subject .... but ... for us around here ....

... whether people will agree with it or not I suppose its democratic in that we elected our local Politicians and could vote them out if we dont agree ?

big fat yorkshire pudding

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13413
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #48 on October 23, 2020, 07:42:15 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Over the summer the taxpayer subsidised families, however wealthy, going out for a meal via the Eat Out to Help Out Scheme.

Taxpayers subsidise the cafes and restaraunts in the HoC where MP's earn £80 000 a year.

Why is it the country can't provide meals for children whose parents have been made redundant, or had their wages cut due to no fault of their own, over the half-term holidays again?

Why can't councils use the funds they receive for unused school meals and keep at full profit?

Because they are not allowed. Neither are schools. That's what yesterdys vote was about that the Tory's voted against - extending provision of a service.

There is no left-over money anyway. Our school precept is decided by a number of criteria and the number of children on roll entitled to FSM is one of them. We then allocate the budget on that. It doesn't matter if the children eat the meals or not - or even leave - the money has been and gone before the year even starts.

How have Doncaster managed it then?

I have physically seen and been involved in the conversations to look at how much can be made out of FSM.  As an example those on FSM will get an allowance each day. If that allowance is unused the allowance is removed from the account of the child. Where is that money going?

Also for those that do pay how is it right that profit is added in some cases by 4 different entities before a child is charged?

Donnywolf

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 20050
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #49 on October 23, 2020, 08:43:06 am by Donnywolf »
My reply 2 above

Now seen Liverpool Cafes down to Greenwich Observatory are dishing out meals for kids

(Meantime wait for a U turn - sorry couldnt resist the meantime "joke")

DonnyNoel

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2617
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #50 on October 23, 2020, 09:57:29 am by DonnyNoel »
Good to see restauarants/establishments all over the country step up and offer lunches through half term, not to mention our own council.

https://twitter.com/MyDoncaster/status/1319557066235826178

Ldr

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2655
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #51 on October 23, 2020, 10:22:02 am by Ldr »
Anyone who thinks it's ok for the government to spend £150m on unusable PPE masks, or £500m so families can eat out for half-price, or give £13.8m to a ferry company with no ferries, but won't spend anything to ensure kids don't go hungry over the coming school holidays, is a scumbag. And don't try to convince anyone otherwise; just go look in the mirror and admit it to yourself - your are a scumbag.

As an aside and putting the correctness of the point to one side. BJW here illustrates why a lot of ppl, myself included, are reluctant to support Labour, the "if you don't agree with me you're scum" attitude of many on that side

Filo

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 29821
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #52 on October 23, 2020, 10:35:47 am by Filo »
Anyone who thinks it's ok for the government to spend £150m on unusable PPE masks, or £500m so families can eat out for half-price, or give £13.8m to a ferry company with no ferries, but won't spend anything to ensure kids don't go hungry over the coming school holidays, is a scumbag. And don't try to convince anyone otherwise; just go look in the mirror and admit it to yourself - your are a scumbag.

As an aside and putting the correctness of the point to one side. BJW here illustrates why a lot of ppl, myself included, are reluctant to support Labour, the "if you don't agree with me you're scum" attitude of many on that side

Her aunty had recently died from covid, and that bas**rd labelled her opportunistic, and then made an attempt at faux outrage when he tried to turn it round, probably difficult for her to control her disgust after labelling her aunty’s death as opportunistic, but at the end of the day what she said was correct, they are scum

Ldr

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2655
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #53 on October 23, 2020, 10:44:29 am by Ldr »
Anyone who thinks it's ok for the government to spend £150m on unusable PPE masks, or £500m so families can eat out for half-price, or give £13.8m to a ferry company with no ferries, but won't spend anything to ensure kids don't go hungry over the coming school holidays, is a scumbag. And don't try to convince anyone otherwise; just go look in the mirror and admit it to yourself - your are a scumbag.

As an aside and putting the correctness of the point to one side. BJW here illustrates why a lot of ppl, myself included, are reluctant to support Labour, the "if you don't agree with me you're scum" attitude of many on that side

Her aunty had recently died from covid, and that bas**rd labelled her opportunistic, and then made an attempt at faux outrage when he tried to turn it round, probably difficult for her to control her disgust after labelling her aunty’s death as opportunistic, but at the end of the day what she said was correct, they are scum

Complete missing of my point

Axholme Lion

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2470
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #54 on October 23, 2020, 10:52:04 am by Axholme Lion »
You do know that this is all happening under capitalism, don't you? I was starting to think there were a few things even you wouldn't use to bait the lefties, BB. Obviously starving kids isn't one of them.

MM, this often doesn't go down well with your generation, but there's a difference between being skint and just about managing as you describe and being below the poverty line. This generation is going through hardships that yours couldn't even imagine. Most parents in poverty are in work - https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/what-has-driven-rise-work-poverty - some in several jobs. Many are on insecure zero hour contracts. There's no safety net there for them. If you ate well, you were lucky. Privileged. Kids today are not so lucky. I assure you, you're getting annoyed at the wrong thing.

If you have an iPhone, loads of tattoos and smoke cigs you are not in poverty. That is a life choice on how you spend money.
I don't have a phone, computer or foreign holidays, I put my money into my home, it is my life choice.
Just out of interest AL but no phone or computer, how do you manage to post on here?

Computer at work.

EasyforDennis

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2574
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #55 on October 23, 2020, 11:13:39 am by EasyforDennis »
Anyone who thinks it's ok for the government to spend £150m on unusable PPE masks, or £500m so families can eat out for half-price, or give £13.8m to a ferry company with no ferries, but won't spend anything to ensure kids don't go hungry over the coming school holidays, is a scumbag. And don't try to convince anyone otherwise; just go look in the mirror and admit it to yourself - your are a scumbag.

As an aside and putting the correctness of the point to one side. BJW here illustrates why a lot of ppl, myself included, are reluctant to support Labour, the "if you don't agree with me you're scum" attitude of many on that side

Her aunty had recently died from covid, and that bas**rd labelled her opportunistic, and then made an attempt at faux outrage when he tried to turn it round, probably difficult for her to control her disgust after labelling her aunty’s death as opportunistic, but at the end of the day what she said was correct, they are scum

Complete missing of my point

Quite deliberately as well no doubt. But did you really think for a minute a tory supporter would ever deny that a PM giving billions to his mates was anything other than a scumbag

big fat yorkshire pudding

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 13413
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #56 on October 23, 2020, 11:39:12 am by big fat yorkshire pudding »
Anyone who thinks it's ok for the government to spend £150m on unusable PPE masks, or £500m so families can eat out for half-price, or give £13.8m to a ferry company with no ferries, but won't spend anything to ensure kids don't go hungry over the coming school holidays, is a scumbag. And don't try to convince anyone otherwise; just go look in the mirror and admit it to yourself - your are a scumbag.

As an aside and putting the correctness of the point to one side. BJW here illustrates why a lot of ppl, myself included, are reluctant to support Labour, the "if you don't agree with me you're scum" attitude of many on that side

Her aunty had recently died from covid, and that bas**rd labelled her opportunistic, and then made an attempt at faux outrage when he tried to turn it round, probably difficult for her to control her disgust after labelling her aunty’s death as opportunistic, but at the end of the day what she said was correct, they are scum

Complete missing of my point

Quite deliberately as well no doubt. But did you really think for a minute a tory supporter would ever deny that a PM giving billions to his mates was anything other than a scumbag

Many who voted Tory will yes. It requires a full independent audit of that there is no doubt.

The use of that word is very wrong though, the point which is right is that creating division further will not win an election.  Kier Starmer is good at being pointed but respectful, she simply is not.

If we think it's right to go around calling people scum openly then we have serious issues in society.

Donnywolf

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 20050
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #57 on October 23, 2020, 11:51:52 am by Donnywolf »
Yes calling people "scum" is not on imo. It inflames what is already a "difficult" time for all

Much better to be polite like this

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1312117010843660289?lang=en

Perfectly reasonable question - maybe Hancock didnt fancy answering the actual question put. If he thinks that is divisive language well he aint been on here has he
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 11:55:23 am by Donnywolf »

MachoMadness

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 5982
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #58 on October 23, 2020, 12:07:03 pm by MachoMadness »
Maybe now would be a good time to arrange a joint donation to a local food bank?
I remember there was a thread for this last season - is that still on do you know? Does SM have any more info about arrangements for this season?

tyke1962

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 3760
Re: End child poverty
« Reply #59 on October 23, 2020, 12:27:22 pm by tyke1962 »
Seems nothing's changed in decades , the insults were flying in Bevan's day too .

Nothing's changed because the Tory Party are lower than vermin and they are scum .

Just my opinion but one I will defend robustly as a working class man whose lived and worked long enough in South Yorkshire under tory government's .

Sometimes it has to be called out as you see it but it isn't lesser a fact either if you do .


https://tidesofhistory.com/2018/07/03/lower-than-vermin-the-story-of-bevans-quote-that-lives-on/




 

TinyPortal © 2005-2012