Let's talk about the Plymouth Argyle game

[DonnyBazR0ver]

  I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..

  I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..

Nope. Sorry, you can't tar the loan players with the same brush.

Go through our long list of young loan players and tell us which can or can't handle men's football.

[Plumbster]

Credit to Plymouth and Crewe, two good additions to the league who played better football than us and, surprisingly, seemed to have higher individual skill levels.  I am hoping that we are a lot better than the last two games and that the message within the group, if not in public,  is that those performances were not acceptable

[bobbymax]

  I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..

  I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..

Over the whole game, I agree with DM. Did more than enough to get a point. As bad as we were in the first half, Plymouth offered virtually nothing and were there for the taking in the second half. We just need more composure when we get a sight of goal. Don't forget, almost half a team missing tonight.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

Their centre half on loan from Fulham was outstanding. Fej battled hard but struggled against him, for the most part.

[Campsall rover]

  I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..

  I also have to say that whilst i love DM His interview last night had me shouting at the radio...He watched a different game to me,didnt think it was a bad performance and we deserved something from the game.In fact it was almost like he was trying to convince himself..

What on earth have loan players got to do with it?  Imo.

Whiteman & Copps, 2 of our most seasoned contracted pros were non existent in that 1st half and Copps was as bad 2nd half also.

Loan players are our players for the duration of their loan in the same way contracted players are for the length of the contract.
What’s the difference please? A loan can be extended, a contract can be extended. A loan can terminated, and a contracted player can be transferred.
This obsession some have with not liking loanees baffles me. It is the common sense way to boost squads player numbers for lower league clubs. In the current economic situation it is a necessity and not even a choice for most league 1 & 2 clubs.

[Campsall rover]

Their centre half on loan from Fulham was outstanding. Fej battled hard but struggled against him, for the most part.

Thought Fej did very well indeed and was one of our best players.

[Move DRFC]

Plymouth sussed us out fair play to them. We were terrible defensively especially on the flanks. We also need to take our chances, Fey, Wright and Whiteman should all score their chances.

Fey did play well on the whole tho my MOTM.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

Their centre half on loan from Fulham was outstanding. Fej battled hard but struggled against him, for the most part.

Thought Fej did very well indeed and was one of our best players.

In hindsight, he may have got more out of him than i'm giving him credit for. Was a good contest. Put a real shift in.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fej was superb last night against an excellent opponent. That was a fascinating contest.

And it would have been a different result if Fej had gone down when he was being pulled at for 30 yards when he got in behind the defence. That should have been a red card.

[bobbymax]

Fej was superb last night against an excellent opponent. That was a fascinating contest.

And it would have been a different result if Fej had gone down when he was being pulled at for 30 yards when he got in behind the defence. That should have been a red card.

There was also a shove on Wright by the same guy when he put his header wide - that was also a potential red card.

[graingrover]

I do agree that Danny Amos should get a run of games .

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It's interesting that we note the things that other teams are consistently better than us. In these days of analytics, you'd think these things would stand out like a sore thumb and would be worked on in training until better execution becomes evident. We don't know things aren't being worked on but yet, we have yet to see any real evidence of it.

A few examples that really get my goat. Please feel free to ADD and/or disagree.

1. Shooting. a) Too often we seem to go for the picture book top corners. What about the bottom corners?
B) Shooting opportunities. How many times do we see players get in to good shooting positions and delay their strikes giving defenders and keepers to get set?
C) Shooting opportunities. Players getting in to good shooting positions then offloading? Very often to someone in a worse position.

2) Deliveries from wide areas.
a) We rarely seem to be capable if picking someone out, more often than not defaulting to the percentage ball in the hope someone will be in the vacinity.
b) Quality of crossing. So many overhit or underhit crosses.

3) Set pieces. Our conversion rate from set pieces must be one of the lowest in the league.
a) Too many short free kicks going backwards seem to be preferring a resumption of open play instead of a taking a free go at getting the ball into the danger area.
B) Little evidence of practiced routines, particularly at corners. Seems like if they don't work first time, bin it and go back to whatever we feel like.

For all of the above there are training routines we should be seeing more evidence of set plays. The ball carrier from wide areas must have 2 or three options and attacking players should be busting a gut to get into their pre-practiced positions for near post, far post, cut backs etc.

These are elements of games that are so basic but so important and need to be practiced as much as shape, positioning and patterns in open play, which we are generally very good at.

[5 on Tour]

Think the 0 players in the box corner was an interesting one. If it works it will look amazing but that delivery was awful. If Plymouth typically zonal mark a corner it would have been static defenders against moving attackers and no contest. Should have tried it a 2nd time and got the delivery right.

[NickDRFC]

DBR - interesting points about shooting. That’s one of the things I really like about Okenabirhie - he’s always looking to get that shot away. People say he should have had hat tricks in the last 2 games but realistically on several of his shots most of our other players would have delayed and lost the opportunity to shoot.

[wing commander]

  I thought we were pretty poor last night and nobody could take much credit,even Coppinger was awful..This is the problem with these loan players.Yes they are more technically gifted than our contracted players but a few games in and they cant handle mens football..

What on earth are you talking about? If we use your logic here then Copps, Madger and Fej can’t handle men’s football either.

Smith was the only thing keeping our midfield in the game first half. Bursik made some great saves. Sims, although tired, looked a threat when he came on.

Halliday, John and Copps looked awful last night. All players have bad games and that’s got to be accepted. What worries me most about last night is Halliday. I have no clue whether he played badly at RB as he was seldom in that position. As a lost sheep somewhere between wing back and defensive midfield he was shocking though.

The point i am trying to make is that they struggle to play the amount of games we need them too..3 of our young loan signings are out injured already..The rigors of mens football is far different from development football..

[steve@dcfd]

I agree about the rigours of men’s football but some of our men are not doing either. Which showed last night. Im not sure we could have sign better men under our financial constraints

As for Goals in league 1 our men forwards
Copps averages 3/4 per season
Taylor average 3/4 per season
Okenibhere. best was 10 goals 2 years ago.
So we do not have clinical finishes unless the young loanees can keep fit and step up,

[vaya]

I agree about the rigours of men’s football but some of our men are not doing either. Which showed last night. Im not sure we could have sign better men under our financial constraints

As for Goals in league 1 our men forwards
Copps averages 3/4 per season
Taylor average 3/4 per season
Okenibhere. best was 10 goals 2 years ago.
So we do not have clinical finishes unless the young loanees can keep fit and step up,

Potentially Steve, although we are the joint second highest scorers in the League, I think it's more the goals are spread round the team rather than being focused solely up front.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

DBR - interesting points about shooting. That’s one of the things I really like about Okenabirhie - he’s always looking to get that shot away. People say he should have had hat tricks in the last 2 games but realistically on several of his shots most of our other players would have delayed and lost the opportunity to shoot.

Yes, Fejiri has upped his game in that respect and is working room and getting shots off. If he can start to convert a few more he's setting a good lead for all to follow.

[Barmby Rover]

DBR - interesting points about shooting. That’s one of the things I really like about Okenabirhie - he’s always looking to get that shot away. People say he should have had hat tricks in the last 2 games but realistically on several of his shots most of our other players would have delayed and lost the opportunity to shoot.

Will he get games though if John-Jules and Tulloch come back? I suspect he would be dropped like a stone.

Yes, Fejiri has upped his game in that respect and is working room and getting shots off. If he can start to convert a few more he's setting a good lead for all to follow.

[EasyforDennis]

Fej was superb last night against an excellent opponent. That was a fascinating contest.

And it would have been a different result if Fej had gone down when he was being pulled at for 30 yards when he got in behind the defence. That should have been a red card.

Superb?? Hardly.

[steve@dcfd]

I agree about the rigours of men’s football but some of our men are not doing either. Which showed last night. Im not sure we could have sign better men under our financial constraints

As for Goals in league 1 our men forwards
Copps averages 3/4 per season
Taylor average 3/4 per season
Okenibhere. best was 10 goals 2 years ago.
So we do not have clinical finishes unless the young loanees can keep fit and step up,

Potentially Steve, although we are the joint second highest scorers in the League, I think it's more the goals are spread round the team rather than being focused solely up front.

I agree with that but our young players in positions they play will have to contribute with goals and all players must try and be more clinical.

[Filo]

I think Copps problem is lack of game time recently, he’s been benched for most of the season, you can’t expect him to come in and be vintage Copps straight away

[Dutch Uncle]

Just watched the the highlights and extended highlights, and while of course it can give a skewed view of the game, I feel maybe we are being too down on the team. The defending in the RB position was of course responsible for the two goals, but Taylor was at fault for the first (although it can be argued Halliday should have been running back quicker to support) but Halliday was at fault for the second. But we did make chances that on another night might have been goals - e.g. Taylor's shot deflected over, Wright's header (and he was surely impeded), and Fej's goal disallowed for offside - difficult to tell from our angle, but then the linesman on the far side was in no better a position so must have been guessing. And then indeed the incident when Fej was through. At what point does the referee play advantage and then not bring play back?

We need a bit of luck IMHO.

Some of Richards, Tulloch, John-Jules and Gomes must be back soon which will help.

By the way, I have no idea but do the bubbling arrangments mean the players and the rest of the match day group can stay in hotels? Did they drive down on the day, and back afterwards?

[drfc1951]

I think they drove down on the day not ideal preparation,i dont know if they returned same night.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Just watched the the highlights and extended highlights, and while of course it can give a skewed view of the game, I feel maybe we are being too down on the team. The defending in the RB position was of course responsible for the two goals, but Taylor was at fault for the first (although it can be argued Halliday should have been running back quicker to support) but Halliday was at fault for the second. But we did make chances that on another night might have been goals - e.g. Taylor's shot deflected over, Wright's header (and he was surely impeded), and Fej's goal disallowed for offside - difficult to tell from our angle, but then the linesman on the far side was in no better a position so must have been guessing. And then indeed the incident when Fej was through. At what point does the referee play advantage and then not bring play back?

We need a bit of luck IMHO.

Some of Richards, Tulloch, John-Jules and Gomes must be back soon which will help.

By the way, I have no idea but do the bubbling arrangments mean the players and the rest of the match day group can stay in hotels? Did they drive down on the day, and back afterwards?

Would agree with all of that Dutch. I think it was James who was offside for Fej's goal.

I jokingly said to my mates when predicting the result that Rovers were likely to be suffering from Deep Vein Thrombosis from the 300 mile trip and it will take to time to get that out of their legs.

Halliday is one of our most improved players in all aspects but he is human afterall. So much of our attacking intent is dependant on full backs pushing forward and, as with everything, there comes a risk. For their second goal, the pass over the top was telegraphed yet, he turned like the QE2 and couldn't catch his man. He was most likely simply knackered! No surprise then he was taken off, which is and likely to be a rarity.

A 2-1 loss away at Plymouth is no disgrace. How we bounce back v Lincoln on Saturday is more important.

Only 2 weeks ago Portsmouth were all at sea, Ipswich were digging themselves into a hole, Sunderland keep flattering to deceive, Posh's revenge seemed to be shooting themselves in the foot.

[drfchound]

People having a go at Halliday should take into account that Danny Mayor, who played mostly down their left, is probably the best player we have come up against this season.

[drfchound]

Most people have see for months that John isn’t a full back. But he keeps playing him there.
James instead of sims is daft
The subsTitutions were ridiculous

Agreed on all those points Dickos.
I have noticed that there are more criticisms of DM now that results are not so good.
Understandable of course.
Will everyone still be saying “in DM we trust” in three months time.

[drfchound]

Most people have see for months that John isn’t a full back. But he keeps playing him there.
James instead of sims is daft
The subsTitutions were ridiculous

Rotation is necessary if fatigue isn’t to set in with playing 3 games every week and not enough strikers .

We don’t play three games in a week.
We play Saturday and Tuesday some weeks.
The next Saturday after that is in the following week.

[drfchound]

Think the 0 players in the box corner was an interesting one. If it works it will look amazing but that delivery was awful. If Plymouth typically zonal mark a corner it would have been static defenders against moving attackers and no contest. Should have tried it a 2nd time and got the delivery right.

That corner obviously had a planned type of delivery and if it was actually the ball that Copps delivered then it was down to our players to get on the end of it.
The ball was driven across goal, on the six yard line(ish) and none of our players made the move forward to get on the end of it.
It would have been an awful ball for a defender to deal with as they would have been running towards their own goal.
It might be worth another go.
Of course we don’t know if the ball that Copps sent over was the rehearsed one but as a former front man I always preferred that type of ball in rather than one that was hung up.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

People having a go at Halliday should take into account that Danny Mayor, who played mostly down their left, is probably the best player we have come up against this season.

Agreed. He was a handful. Very good player.