US Election

[IDM]

Usually yes, but I reckon Corbyn alone lost Labour thousands and thousands of votes..

Millions of Americans will turn a blind eye to Trump’s behaviour in order to secure a Republican presidency.

[drfchound]

But by that reasoning wouldn’t it be fair to say that many thousands voted for Biden because of Trumps behaviour.

[IDM]

They probably did, I certainly would have.!

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's a daft comparison for two reasons.

1) In Britain, you cannot separate your vote for the Executive and the Legislature as you can in the States. If you want party X in power in the Legislature, by definition that means you have to accept the head of that party leading the Executive.

In America, you can vote for the leader of Party X to be the President, and the candidates of Party Y to be elected as Senators and Congressmen.

2) We've never had a Kitson like Trump as the leader of a UK party. Never in a million years would I vote Labour if a known criminal was the Labour leader.

[SydneyRover]

On a brighter note ..........

''Joe Biden’s lead in Pennsylvania has now surpassed 50,000, after the latest batch of ballots from Allegheny county were posted.

As of this afternoon, Biden leads Donald Trump in Pennsylvania by 50,483, or 0.7% of the total vote in the state.

That puts Biden’s lead well outside of automatic recount territory, given Pennsylvania automatically launches a recount when the winning candidate leads by 0.5% or less.

Biden’s lead is also now larger than Trump’s 2016 lead in Pennsylvania. Four years ago, Trump won the state by 44,292 votes''

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just been watching some of the footage of the Trump legal action against the Michigan vote.

It is PROPER scary. They are saying that the whole vote should be thrown out because observers were forced to stand 20 feet back from the count so they couldn't see if votes were being processed correctly. And their case now is that, now that those votes have been processed, there is no way of knowing whether they were ever legal or not.

The Judge asked what evidence they had of observers being forced to stand 20 feet back.

Trump's lawyer then started blustering that "Ah, yeah, 20...I'm not gonna say 20...we have affidavits."

And then it hit me. That's the plan. Make it utterly unknowable what the truth is. Have a bunch of claims that cannot be substantiated, that observers were blocked from doing their job. And extrapolate from that that if observers were blocked from doing their job, someone might have been dishonest in allowing postal votes that shouldn't have counted. And extrapolate from that that it means that the entire Michigan election is invalid.

It's horseshit.

But.

If it ends up at a Supreme Court that has been packed with Trump nominees...


And even if it doesn't work, it will become the Trumpist myth for the next 50 years. "They stole the election from you and everyone knew it, but the judges and the Elite waved it through."

I think I've just seen how American democracy collapses. Either over the next month, or over the next 50 years. Because either Trump's coup works now. It a much smarter and more dangerous version rides the wave that this legal action is designed to produce, and sweeps to power in 2024 or 2036 or 2052.

[IDM]

So their evidence is, the actual evidence can’t be seen - so they conclude their claims of fraud must be correct.?

That’s not evidence at all, surely it’s down to the people raising the complaint to provide proof.?

[BillyStubbsTears]

IDM.

The approach is.

We make a claims that cannot be verified, that there was a deliberate policy of stopping observers getting close enough to observe.

Following on from that, we claim that,while observers were barred from observing, ineligible postal votes may have unfairly been included in the fai votes tally.

We have absolutely no evidence of the latter happening. But here's the point. YOU cannot prove it didn't happen.

So we have established our myth of the election being stolen. You cannot prove it wasn't. And we will feed that into angry, gullible brains for the next generation.

[IDM]

But it’s still down to them to prove any wrongdoing did happen..

Or I assume that’s the approach the court system would take.?  Otherwise people could accuse folks of all kinds of wrongdoings..

[MachoMadness]

It's not about winning at this stage IDM. It's about getting people riled up enough that they feel they need to give money to Donald Trump to "fight the system". And if some other people take it a few steps further and start fighting for real, well, that's too bad.

[tyke1962]

Trump rally pre election and inside the mind of his support .



https://youtu.be/NzDhm808oU4

[wilts rover]

Trump has dropped the majority of his legal claims in Pennsylvannia. Even if he wins the remaining ones they do not account to enough votes to overturn the result.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1328146112134467584

[BillyStubbsTears]

THE most important comment of the year, or possibly any other year. From Barack Obama.

"If we do not have the capacity to distinguish what’s true from what’s false, then by definition the marketplace of ideas doesn’t work. And by definition our democracy doesn’t work. We are entering into an epistemological crisis."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/why-obama-fears-for-our-democracy/617087/

There is literally nothing more important than countering the war of Objective Truth. If we lose that, we are finished.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So. Here's the endgame. This is Trump's (latest) lawyer saying that after all their legal cases have been thrown out bu state courts, they are moving on to appeal to the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court that Trump has packed with his own picks.

This is where American democracy hopefully shows its strength. Or things get very, very problematic over the next 10 days.

https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/status/1332380180065738754

[IDM]

The federal judge who made the statements that there was no proof submitted, in Trunp’s appeal against the PA result and the inital rejection of his lawsuit, was a Trump appointee..

[Donnywolf]

I hope in the end whenever that is, the USA decides to go with a simple "majority" to become President and abandon the Electoral College System.

Each vote cast would then have equal status and in this Election would have seen Biden winning with 6 Million plus votes more than Trump

Trump would have lost the last Election as well polling 2million 800 thousand less than Hillary Clinton

In the "stolen" Election of 2000 when it did got to Court over the "pregnant Chads" Gore was beaten by 300 off votes thrown out in Florida which got George W Bush inot The White House even though Gore polled half a Million more votes

Other Elections seem clearer cut - so Electoral College "lovers" would probably tell me to butt out "limey" what another Country's election got to do with you - and they may have a point   

 

[wilts rover]

It's to do with the power and influence of the individual states isn't it Wolfie. They literally have different laws in different states. Once you start taking that power away from them and giving it to a central body, who knows where it may lead.

I m not yet sure that the US is ready for more equality!

[Donnywolf]

True - each State is a law unto itself I suppose - I just think they could be more equivocal - but heigh ho Im not as bothered about that as I am in the strength of the Team we field tomorrow 

[BillyStubbsTears]

America. 2020. Who would ever have expected that a public official would need to speak like this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/gpbnews/status/1333886597264240640

[Donnywolf]

Trump now destined to launch his 2024 Presidential campaign EXACTLY at the moment when Biden will be attending his inauguration

Maybe he cant stand to see the crowds attending that "do" as of course he had (he said) the LARGEST crowd ever for any Inauguration. He was seething when people produced photos that disproved that

He is (I am sorry Trump lovers and / or appeasers) just a complete spoiled kid. Roundly thrashed in the Polls and cant stand to lose - so he will take his ball home - challenge every result in every State - fire those who cant find a shred of evidence to keep his pretence of "cheating" alive - not concede at any point and FINALLY find an excuse NOT to do the honourable thing and attend the Inauguration of the next legitimate President

I dont know if this is unique in their history - but we will find out. Obviously some outgoing Presidents have been unable to attend for one reason or another but have any pulled the spoiled kid in tears act

For me that is what he looks like - and even more I cant see why 70 Million voters chose to follow him - and thank goodness (as I know it will rile Trump to death) Biden got Millions and Millions and Millions more votes winning the popular vote AND the Electoral College system votes

[BillyStubbsTears]

So this was Rudi Giuliani, four days ago at a hearing into supposed election fraud in Michigan.

https://youtu.be/0X7WgjXBoUg

Today, the bell end is in hospital with COVID.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Opinion poll in the USA this week.

Only 18% of Republicans accept  the election of Biden.

Just 13% of Republicans think the conduct of the election was fair. 72% say it was unfair to Trump.

This is a frightening problem for the future. That's Trump's legacy. A huge proportion of Americans no longer believing in their own democracy.

https://t.co/MILppCFCGH?amp=1

Oh aye. And in the same poll, only 35% of Republicans say they will be vaccinated.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Let the stupid sods catch Covid then. Natural selection at its finest.

[wilts rover]

They finished counting and certifing the election today.

Biden won the popular vote by over 7 million votes or 52 - 48 %wise (where have I heard those figures before).

https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1337505288660901889