US Election

[MachoMadness]

Rumours in the press state that Putin is stepping down in January as he may be suffering from Parkinson's. How's that for a coincidence?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I get that some people will vote for Trump despite his idiocy because he is on their side, not the other side.

What I simply do not, and will never understand, is the moral universe of a person who supports Trump when the lengths he is prepared to go to to undermine democratic processes are clear. What he was doing last night was not some panicked, off the cuff ramblings. He has been teeing up this "they stole the vote" schtick for the past couple of years. He is actively seeking to annul a fair election that he lost. What he's attempting has a name. It's called a coup d'etat. Anyone who still supports him now is knowingly collaborating with the biggest threat to American democracy since the Civil War.

[belton rover]

I have to say Billy, you called this one correctly.
I only hope that despite Trump being Trump, Americans, generally, will eventually see this for what it is, and that he will be held to account.

[Campsall rover]

I get that some people will vote for Trump despite his idiocy because he is on their side, not the other side.

What I simply do not, and will never understand, is the moral universe of a person who supports Trump when the lengths he is prepared to go to to undermine democratic processes are clear. What he was doing last night was not some panicked, off the cuff ramblings. He has been teeing up this "they stole the vote" schtick for the past couple of years. He is actively seeking to annul a fair election that he lost. What he's attempting has a name. It's called a coup d'etat. Anyone who still supports him now is knowingly collaborating with the biggest threat to American democracy since the Civil War.

He is a beaten man. He knows he is a beaten man and yet he still won’t accept that he could actually be a loser in this election.
He is never a loser, never loses anything and therefore the word lose for him does not exist.

What a horrible person he is. How 70 million USA citizens would want a second term from this man is quite frankly very concerning indeed.
Head of the largest Democracy in the world and he is now behaving like a third world country dictator.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Biden is now ahead in Pennsylvania, with a lot more votes still to come in from Democrat-leaning areas.

That, folks, is the end of Trump's presidency. Barring the Supreme Court that he packed with supporters intervening, or the white supremacists he's been courting taking to the streets.

[SydneyRover]

Does anyone else see the irony in calls for johnson to call out trump for making fake claims?

[MachoMadness]

Decision Desk HQ has called PA for Biden, and with that, the Presidency. I think we'll see the race officially called today.

[SydneyRover]

'Chill!': Greta Thunberg recycles Trump's mockery of her as he tries to stop votes
Swedish teen environmental activist took her shot at the president?s rage tweet as the US formally exits from the Paris climate agreement

[ravenrover]

I was chatting with an ex pat on visit home from States a couple of years ago We talked about Trump and his chancrs of re election, he was in no doubt that Trump had every chance, his explanation was the intelligent coastal States usually vote Democrat but everybody forgets how big USA is in the middle and that is where Trump gets his following mainly among the blue collar workers and rednecks. No wonder he can poll so heavily

[SydneyRover]

9.40am in Washington time for coffee a bit of light lunch oh and declare victory

[MachoMadness]

Here's an interesting Tweet regarding how Fox are going to handle this news -

New: Fox News is instructing its talent not to call Joe Biden the "President-elect" when the network calls the race, according to two memos obtained by @brianstelter and me. The memos say Fox should "stay away" from using the description.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1324721461458800641

[SydneyRover]

''CNN?s Abby Phillip said Joe Biden?s potential victory represents ?a proving moment? for the political strength of African American women.

?Carrying Joe Biden to the Democratic nomination through the primary: Black women did that,? Phillip said''

Congrats to Biden & Harris

[Filo]

They?re shitting it on who?s going to tell the baby 😂😂😂

https://twitter.com/alan_mcguinness/status/1324730422920622080?s=21

[MachoMadness]

I really don't want to draw comparisons with the film Downfall, but...

[Filo]

😂😂😂

[tyke1962]

There's very little point in my honest opinion the centre or the liberal left high fiving and proclaiming the nightmare is over because it ain't so .

It wouldn't take too much for another or even Trump himself to flip this the other way in four years time on a right wing ticket .

The truth is Covid 19 won the US election and not Joe Biden , the support Biden did get was because enough people voted against Trump and not necessarily for Joe Biden which are two different things .

Nowts changed in my opinion , change only comes with sizeable election victories that shout loud , the type of wins we saw with Thatcher and Blair .

The centre of politics and their minions in the liberal left had better get their thinking caps on and start recognising globalisation and it's tentacles ain't a ticket to power and may not ever be .

You've had Brexit , you've had Trump and we still have Johnson and the only thing the centre and the liberal left have is a narrow Biden win on a Covid ticket .

There's no humiliation with Trump and his cronies , you've put the Champ on his knees taking the count of 10 but just remember you ain't knocked him out and there's plenty of rounds left in this fight .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating insight into the schism in America here. Hit the "Size of Lead" tab under the map.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu_recirc

As far as i can see, Trump has won only 1 county in the entire country by more than 100,000 votes. Biden has won dozens by more than that. Counties vary in size from a couple of hundred voters in the desert areas to several million in the counties covering the big cities, like LA, Chicago, Philadelphia etc, with a few hundred thousand voters in dozens of counties covering mid-size cities.

So what this means is that Trump hasn't won large victories in any large metro areas, and only in a slack handful of smaller urban areas (counties covering the suburbs of Salt Lake City, Houston etc). His vote has come from winning big in the rural areas, or winning small in suburban areas.

It's fascinating to look at the detail. Take Kentucky which is about as solid a Republican state as you can find. The overall state voted 2:1 for Trump. But in the counties covering the two big cities, Lexington and Louisville, the vote went 60:40 to Biden.

That seems to me to be a massively unhealthy rift in American society. And it is hard to see how you go about healing it.

[tyke1962]

Fascinating insight into the schism in America here. Hit the "Size of Lead" tab under the map.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu_recirc

As far as i can see, Trump has won only 1 county in the entire country by more than 100,000 votes. Biden has won dozens by more than that. Counties vary in size from a couple of hundred voters in the desert areas to several million in the counties covering the big cities, like LA, Chicago, Philadelphia etc, with a few hundred thousand voters in dozens of counties covering mid-size cities.

So what this means is that Trump hasn't won large victories in any large metro areas, and only in a slack handful of smaller urban areas (counties covering the suburbs of Salt Lake City, Houston etc). His vote has come from winning big in the rural areas, or winning small in suburban areas.

It's fascinating to look at the detail. Take Kentucky which is about as solid a Republican state as you can find. The overall state voted 2:1 for Trump. But in the counties covering the two big cities, Lexington and Louisville, the vote went 60:40 to Biden.

That seems to me to be a massively unhealthy rift in American society. And it is hard to see how you go about healing it.

You can analyse this election and our own all you want Billy but analysis starts for me in the late 1970's with Thatcher and Regan .

Carried on by Clinton and Blair and eventually cashed in on by Trump and Johnson .

It's called globalisation and the impact its had on the less well off in the US and UK .

The left from my background were telling you this in the 1970's .

Too many votes cast these last few years in the US and the UK on a couple of levels for all them to be classed as thick , stupid and racist .

The left are dinosaurs these days , the centre and the liberal left can't fix it because it goes against their ideology .

Expect the right to cash in at regular intervals .

We may have seen nowt yet .

[BillyStubbsTears]

I agree about the timescale Tyke, but it has bigger all to do with globalisation. It's got everything to do with how countries divvy up the proceeds of growth. Both the UK and USA used to be far more equal in the way that income was split between the richest and poorest. What has happened since Thatcher and Reagan is that the wealthiest have been cut loose from societal obligations. They now take a far higher percentage of national wealth. And THAT is the reason the old working class is angry.

Blaming it on globalisation falls into Farage and Trump's trap. Taking that anger and blaming it on them foreign bastsrds who have taken your job.

That is not the real enemy. And I'm surprised at you, as a socialist, for not seeing where the real problem is.

[Padge_DRFC]

This is the most drawn out result for a result we knew yesterday morning

Farage is 10k down to.

[EasyforDennis]

Just thinking Tyke. Why is it you are on a DRFC forum discussing politics? Nobody intelligent enough to debate with ont tarns site? 

[tyke1962]

Just thinking Tyke. Why is it you are on a DRFC forum discussing politics? Nobody intelligent enough to debate with ont tarns site? 

Or I'm a thick tw@t and feel more at home on here perhaps .

 

[tyke1962]

I agree about the timescale Tyke, but it has bigger all to do with globalisation. It's got everything to do with how countries divvy up the proceeds of growth. Both the UK and USA used to be far more equal in the way that income was split between the richest and poorest. What has happened since Thatcher and Reagan is that the wealthiest have been cut loose from societal obligations. They now take a far higher percentage of national wealth. And THAT is the reason the old working class is angry.

Blaming it on globalisation falls into Farage and Trump's trap. Taking that anger and blaming it on them foreign bastsrds who have taken your job.

That is not the real enemy. And I'm surprised at you, as a socialist, for not seeing where the real problem is.

I repeat , the left from my background told you how it would play out in the 1970's .

In the 1970's things were far more equal and trade unions were responsible for that but even from that position they knew what was coming .

My hat isn't hung on the same peg as Farage or Trump as you well know and I'm no socialist either as I believe in a mixed economy .

[EasyforDennis]

Just thinking Tyke. Why is it you are on a DRFC forum discussing politics? Nobody intelligent enough to debate with ont tarns site? 

Or I'm a thick tw@t and feel more at home on here perhaps .

 

touche

[TommyC]

I agree about the timescale Tyke, but it has bigger all to do with globalisation. It's got everything to do with how countries divvy up the proceeds of growth. Both the UK and USA used to be far more equal in the way that income was split between the richest and poorest. What has happened since Thatcher and Reagan is that the wealthiest have been cut loose from societal obligations. They now take a far higher percentage of national wealth. And THAT is the reason the old working class is angry.

Blaming it on globalisation falls into Farage and Trump's trap. Taking that anger and blaming it on them foreign bastsrds who have taken your job.

That is not the real enemy. And I'm surprised at you, as a socialist, for not seeing where the real problem is.

Can I just ask how you would define "the wealthiest" please?

[SydneyRover]

One of the changes i see and it has been discussed before is the abandonment of respect for convention, if it ain't nailed and lashed down it's torn up and used to strengthen the hold on power and then in turn that increased/broadened position is used to pour money and resourses directly into sandbagging seats or pockets of donors.

In the US trump poured money into propping up farmers with massive subsidies which Biden will find difficult to remove, in Britain the you can see money has gone to marginal seats and pouring into to donors pockets via lucrative contracts and in Australia there are what are called the sports rorts and similar programs have poured hundred of million of dollars into marginal seats.

[drfchound]

Trump may not be around in four years time to stand again for the top job.
He is no spring chicken.

[SydneyRover]

He'll only be as old as Biden is now hound, but personally I think he will have moved on helped by a GOP that says thanks but no thanks not again and of course he will have a few personal issues to think about. All those clingons that wanted to be part of his 'success' will melt into the background on his way down, even Pence doesn't want to stand next to him already.

[drfchound]

Yep he may well be SR but as we know, not everyone has the same lifespan.
Losing this election will have a profound effect on him.

[tyke1962]

So one half of the US rejoices because they've elected a President who isn't Donald Trump .

Fair play that had to be done and so I'm asking myself now what ? .

My problem is this , 70 million of the US electorate were quite happy with Trump after 4 years in office .

I could conceivably say Starmer wins in 2024 in the UK and defeats Johnson and ask the the same so now what question .......... because your not Boris Johnson ? .

What fecking good is that when in reality nothing much changes for far too many working class people other than we elect someone who acts more credible than the person he defeats .

Be honest for one minute and at least do me the favour of acknowledging that the Democrats and Labour can only be elected just as long as nowt changes too much and the wealth gap ain't getting reduced anytime soon .

You can't really tackle the fundamental issue though can you when to get elected you have to trash the US industrial heartlands and in the UK feck the unions off .

If I ain't exactly dancing on Trumps grave I have good reasons .