All Electric v Petrol/Diesel

[dknward2]

Janso you are so close to what will happen.

When working for Audi I went over to Munich for a new car launch and we were shown presentations on future systems one was product on demand so you could get a subscription for say 6 months for say heated seats and steering wheel.

Other things will be car to x in where your car talks to other cars or street lights and traffic lights, so as you get closer to the lights they have changed so you don’t need to slow down.

Other things like knowing where free car parking spaces are so as a car passes a spot it reports it to cars behind so if one of them is looking for a space it can direct the nav to that spot

[Axholme Lion]

Janso you are so close to what will happen.

When working for Audi I went over to Munich for a new car launch and we were shown presentations on future systems one was product on demand so you could get a subscription for say 6 months for say heated seats and steering wheel.

Other things will be car to x in where your car talks to other cars or street lights and traffic lights, so as you get closer to the lights they have changed so you don’t need to slow down.

Other things like knowing where free car parking spaces are so as a car passes a spot it reports it to cars behind so if one of them is looking for a space it can direct the nav to that spot

Apparently if you buy the new Honda E you have to give your card details to pay for updates etc. It's all going a bit Star Trek. I used to have a Morris Minor which didn't even have a radio. When we used to go out for a run in the winter we took a flask of hot water and a hot water bottle for the Mrs to keep snug on the way back because the heater was so poor!

[idler]

I remember in the 1960s when all of the motoring magazines used to advertise the extras to improve your car. Rear window demisters, wing mirrors, reversing lamps, spot and fog lamps, radios, Rev counters, ammeters, oil pressure and water gauges. If you were really tarting it up there were multiple musical air horns. Top that lot off with a rally jacket and leather driving gloves. Them were the days.

[Axholme Lion]

I remember in the 1960s when all of the motoring magazines used to advertise the extras to improve your car. Rear window demisters, wing mirrors, reversing lamps, spot and fog lamps, radios, Rev counters, ammeters, oil pressure and water gauges. If you were really tarting it up there were multiple musical air horns. Top that lot off with a rally jacket and leather driving gloves. Them were the days.

I remember those sort of polythene/plastic rectangular things to put in the rear window to allegedly stop it misting up. They didn't. The first accessory I got on my Chrysler Sunbeam was a passenger side door mirror and some go faster stripes. I know the cars were a bit rubbish really but it feels like motoring was far more enjoyable then.
Did your air horns play Dixie or Colonel Bogie?

[idler]

I remember in the 1960s when all of the motoring magazines used to advertise the extras to improve your car. Rear window demisters, wing mirrors, reversing lamps, spot and fog lamps, radios, Rev counters, ammeters, oil pressure and water gauges. If you were really tarting it up there were multiple musical air horns. Top that lot off with a rally jacket and leather driving gloves. Them were the days.

I remember those sort of polythene/plastic rectangular things to put in the rear window to allegedly stop it misting up. They didn't. The first accessory I got on my Chrysler Sunbeam was a passenger side door mirror and some go faster stripes. I know the cars were a bit rubbish really but it feels like motoring was far more enjoyable then.
Did your air horns play Dixie or Colonel Bogie?

I didn’t get the musical ones, there was La Cucaracha as well. I got twin air horns for my TR4. I also used to get the Gnomist demisters which were supposedly used on cockpit windows. They were just a film that you pressed on. They were better than the thicker ones.

[Axholme Lion]

I remember in the 1960s when all of the motoring magazines used to advertise the extras to improve your car. Rear window demisters, wing mirrors, reversing lamps, spot and fog lamps, radios, Rev counters, ammeters, oil pressure and water gauges. If you were really tarting it up there were multiple musical air horns. Top that lot off with a rally jacket and leather driving gloves. Them were the days.

I remember those sort of polythene/plastic rectangular things to put in the rear window to allegedly stop it misting up. They didn't. The first accessory I got on my Chrysler Sunbeam was a passenger side door mirror and some go faster stripes. I know the cars were a bit rubbish really but it feels like motoring was far more enjoyable then.
Did your air horns play Dixie or Colonel Bogie?

I didn’t get the musical ones, there was La Cucaracha as well. I got twin air horns for my TR4. I also used to get the Gnomist demisters which were supposedly used on cockpit windows. They were just a film that you pressed on. They were better than the thicker ones.

Also there was the horrible black louvered rear window covers, you used to see a lot on mark 1 Capris.

[i_ateallthepies]

Him and Her screen sunstrip and fluffy dice hanging from the rear view mirror.  Best was the 8-track stereo.

[Axholme Lion]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/04/prepare-to-cringe-these-are-the-ten-most-sexist-car-adverts-of-all-time-7911751/

Have a laugh at these car ads from the seventies for a bit of sexism. By the way I have a Subaru, ha ha.

[River Don]

This article highlights the dilemma people face in making the change to all electric early. It also reveals the scale of the challenge in making the UK road network fully electric by 2030.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/28/electric-cars-porsche-charging-network

Anyway, I've had my breakfast so I'm fully charged to go out on my bike for an hour now.

[Colin C No.3]

Anyone interested in a 1964 Aston Martin DB5 going cheap?

[RobTheRover]

I work in the Energy sector (in fact, I'm just about to start a new job next week as Head of Public Sector at a major consultancy) and V2G is going to be huge.

The grid needs 30TW of storage for balancing and resilience by 2050 and there is currently 2TW built and available. There are some significant trials taking place in Glasgow with Nissan and NationalGrid funding, and the findings from that will no doubt shape both uptake and policy.  Acceleration of the programme will no doubt follow.

Ironically, I've just had to hand back my Mercedes C350e hybrid company car and have just bought a diesel C220d.  The C350e did 40k miles in  the 2 years I had it (only about 2k since March this year) but the stats showed almost half of them were with the ICE not running. Nevertheless, it only averaged 42 miles to the gallon (2 litre petrol) and I charged it religiously overnight. The diesel is beating that in the first 2 weeks of ownership.  Hybrids are not the future and will be phased out too.

[River Don]

A good diesel hasn't been a bad option for an economic car. The only problem is the release of pollution particles, even then a modern engine that meets EU regs isn't bad so long as you keep the ad blue topped up. I've been running a VW Golf trubo diesel, it's efficiency is rated so highly I don't need to pay tax with it. And I don't often drive in town with it anyway and I don't do a big mileage.

Going all electric now,  still feels like being an early adopter. I'd rather keep running the diesel for the time being.

[Axholme Lion]

A good diesel hasn't been a bad option for an economic car. The only problem is the release of pollution particles, even then a modern engine that meets EU regs isn't bad so long as you keep the ad blue topped up. I've been running a VW Golf trubo diesel, it's efficiency is rated so highly I don't need to pay tax with it. And I don't often drive in town with it anyway and I don't do a big mileage.

Going all electric now,  still feels like being an early adopter. I'd rather keep running the diesel for the time being.

Some modern diesels don't need adblue. Isuzu for example.

[albie]

Rob,

V2G has great potential as a reversible energy store.
As well as the domestic market set out in the BBC Click programme, commercial operators are looking at the opportunities the tech provides;
https://insideevs.com/news/439188/london-bus-depot-world-largest-v2g-site/

The Click programme is now on YT;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdMczkkjTU
Last 10 minutes for the V2G domestic application.

[Campsall rover]

Anyone interested in a 1964 Aston Martin DB5 going cheap?

The real James Bond car from Goldfinger. Now that would be worth who knows what. A lot, a heck of a lot.

If it’s cheap what is wrong with it. Would cost a fortune to fix. Or is it a rust bucket and if it is it’s no good to anyone.

[RobTheRover]

Rob,

V2G has great potential as a reversible energy store.
As well as the domestic market set out in the BBC Click programme, commercial operators are looking at the opportunities the tech provides;
https://insideevs.com/news/439188/london-bus-depot-world-largest-v2g-site/

The Click programme is now on YT;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOdMczkkjTU
Last 10 minutes for the V2G domestic application.

Agreed. Challenges are still there, though.

As with Solar PV, the grid is designed for energy to flow out from centralised generation over transmission to distribution to substations to end users.  Grid capacity for reverse flows are still problematic. I've been working on a grid scale solar/battery project that's absolutely huge, with a 25MW battery capacity, and yet only 8MW can be released back as the grid capacity available is limited. Network reinforcement costs were forecast to be absolutely enormous.

The future solution needs decentralised energy and more community energy - generate it, store it, use it and share it in localised hubs, lose the reliance in the HV transmission and distribution networks quite so much, and put communities back in charge of balancing their needs and wants.  Rolls Royce are already looking at this model for their compact nuclear plants.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2020/11/12/rolls-royce-unveils-plans-for-16-mini-nuclear-plants-in-the-uk/

[SydneyRover]

Will it be cheaper to upgrade the grid to accept renewables in the long term where renewables are becoming almost cheaper on a daily basis rather than to develop mini nuclear plants that will still have to deal with the waste and safety problems Rob?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200309-are-small-nuclear-power-plants-safe-and-efficient

[Axholme Lion]

Anyone interested in a 1964 Aston Martin DB5 going cheap?

The real James Bond car from Goldfinger. Now that would be worth who knows what. A lot, a heck of a lot.

If it’s cheap what is wrong with it. Would cost a fortune to fix. Or is it a rust bucket and if it is it’s no good to anyone.

Even a rust bucket is worth a fortune. There are plenty of people who will throw a couple of hundred grand into restoring them.

[River Don]

My neighbour restored an original mk1 Ford Capri. To say it was a rust bucket is an understatement. It was barely recognisable as a car. Now after a great deal of effort and long nights with a welding torch it's like new with gleaming royal blue and white paintwork. He's had offers of silly money for it, there is a lot of nostalgia for Capris but he doesn't want to sell. Instead he's started doing up another one, at the moment though it's still little more than a rusty frame in a farmers shed. I suppose a restoration job on a Ford is much easier than an Aston though, the parts are cheaper and easier to come by. Still it's a worthwhile project for someone.

[Axholme Lion]

My neighbour restored an original mk1 Ford Capri. To say it was a rust bucket is an understatement. It was barely recognisable as a car. Now after a great deal of effort and long nights with a welding torch it's like new with gleaming royal blue and white paintwork. He's had offers of silly money for it, there is a lot of nostalgia for Capris but he doesn't want to sell. Instead he's started doing up another one, at the moment though it's still little more than a rusty frame in a farmers shed. I suppose a restoration job on a Ford is much easier than an Aston though, the parts are cheaper and easier to come by. Still it's a worthwhile project for someone.

Restoring any old car is a money pit and you NEVER get your money back. As regards parts I reckon it will be easier to get hold of Aston parts rather than Ford as if you're prepared to pay anything is possible.

https://www.astonengineering.co.uk/restoration?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzO_KsLus7QIVmu3tCh3nfwYJEAAYASAAEgJ9u_D_BwE

Get your wallet out!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

The Cameron Government slashed the subsidies for roof PV panels before the industry was well enough established to stand on its own. Because...Austerity innit.

It's an industry that relies on a mass market to drive down prices. They've continued to fall in other countries.

USA.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/e5C1Iq3DUS_tTPPh9TM9gIfpifPeazV_T8r4YIffwV5WZbkbQN_ZF0D6rqOUZmv4_z7A6_V-EFHzShtNb3DJF3oCrEgXaTeTsoV_BOp36JBvKDI9_xcJ2_Lklu-tUEbhgpQI-WO4rOgc_R9rWccb9K76ZSQGz1NoTsEo

Japan.
https://www.renewable-ei.org/en/statistics/re/img/graph_sun02.png

But here, there's been no reduction in cost since the subsidies were slashed.

https://www.solarguide.co.uk/data/imagecache/content_images/wpimages-solarguide.co.uk/2018/08/27125009/Cost-of-a-4kW-Solar-PV-System-UK-1.png

I was saying a couple of weeks ago that it was a foolish and shortsighted mistake of the Cameron Govt to effectively kill off the solar panel industry in the UK a decade ago. But I hadn't realised quite how bad a mistake.

Look at this summary of how the cost of PV panel electricity has plummeted over the years, where they have continued production. We should be covering every roof in the country with solar panels to produce the cheapest energy in the world. But we've no industry to do it.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

Don't worry about the text. Scroll down to the graphs on how cost has changed over the years. Absolutely astonishing.

[RobTheRover]

Will it be cheaper to upgrade the grid to accept renewables in the long term where renewables are becoming almost cheaper on a daily basis rather than to develop mini nuclear plants that will still have to deal with the waste and safety problems Rob?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200309-are-small-nuclear-power-plants-safe-and-efficient

It's not a case of one or the other, Sydney. We need a mix of generation technologies as none are perfect.  Nuclear isn't dynamic in terms of its capability to spin up or down or even off quickly to match output to demand, but is great for covering baseload, the levels below which the nations demand never falls. Gas and coal are better in terms of flexibility but obviously carry the carbon costs. Renewable sources are peaky in terms of their generation profile so cannot be relied upon to meet baseload demand.  What happens when it's not windy or sunny? This is why storage is vital to the future energy landscape, particularly if projections on the increased demand for electricity by 2030 I've seen are correct and I've no reason to doubt them.

The flip of all this of course is that gas is cheap for heating purposes and electricity is expensive. Also, the government and regulator (Ofgem) are changing the way that taxes are levied in electricity for businesses starting next year with the express purpose of removing the opportunity for users with storage capability to avoid paying peak demand costs by effectively going off grid for short periods. There will be no winners from that other than the government and national grid. Look up TCR (it's nothing to do with a superior car slot racing game from the 80s, sadly)

[SydneyRover]

thanks Rob, my main issues are that energy produced from fossil fuels are not costed to cover rehab and the effects of climate change, gas is only marginally cleaner than coal as far as emissions. As the the problems of energy storage for renewables are overcome with batteries, pumped hydro and the like electricity will be the cheaper option I would have thought/hope.

I don't see gas as a problem as an emergency type resourse but if climate change is going to be addressed it will have to figure less and less in the mix. We won't of course get quite those dramatic returns as more come on line but solar/battery storage here is way cheaper than coal or gas generation.

The first large battery at around £50m installed in South Australia has already paid for itself and more.

https://www.torquenews.com/video/tesla-big-battery-australia-pays-itself-25-years-huge-profit#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20big%20battery%20in,paid%20itself%20in%202.5%20years.

[RobTheRover]

There is an enormous solar/storage facility being built in the outback at the moment, and a huge supply line being laid in the sea. That facility will power Singapore.

 https://www.sciencealert.com/world-s-largest-solar-farm-to-pipe-power-internationally-from-australia-under-the-sea

[albie]

Latest UK sales figures now out;
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/12/04/uks-ev-market-share-jumps-to-16-in-november-overtaking-diesel/
Its happening now!

On the premature removal of solar subsidies by Cameron, the unit cost has continued to decline year on year.
It seems to me that the ability to charge a vehicle  at home could provide a stimulus to solar rooftop going forwards.

I do agree that decisions not to support sunrise industries looks very myopic with the need to address climate change central to industrial strategy in the near term. All Cameron has done is disadvantage UK suppliers in the developing market.

[SydneyRover]

''UK's first all-electric car charging forecourt opens in Essex
Clean energy firm Gridserve has plans for more than 100 such sites over next five years''

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/uk-first-all-electric-car-charging-forecourt-opens-in-essex

[SydneyRover]

Here's another big renewables program for NSW Rob, we have a massive problem here with the coalition RW federal government wanting to delay climate action for as long as possible and the labor opposition commiting the least possible agter losing the election last year. The major players  atm are states and private industry.

Australia’s New South Wales announces A$32bn renewables push

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/11/australia-s-new-south-wales-announces-a-32bn-renewables-push/

[albie]

This looks like a significant change;
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/battery-electric-car-range-charge-time-b1790601.html

AL,
Don't read it, Lad....not good for your blood pressure!

[Axholme Lion]

 

This looks like a significant change;
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/battery-electric-car-range-charge-time-b1790601.html

AL,
Don't read it, Lad....not good for your blood pressure!