The end for Debenhams

[SydneyRover]

Agreed bst I think we'll see the demise of the huge shopping centres unless they adapt and change, the idea of basing a visit on a changeable attraction with shopping and eating a part of that experience is a good concept.

[RobTheRover]

Agreed bst I think we'll see the demise of the huge shopping centres unless they adapt and change, the idea of basing a visit on a changeable attraction with shopping and eating a part of that experience is a good concept.

You mean like Meadowhall, Trafford Centre, etc?

They are what has killed off town centres, and this is nothing new. It's been going on for 20 odd years. Sheffield has evolved over this time as BST states purely because it had to.  City centre stores and traders were complaining about the impact of the big, new, shiny Meadowhall building 20 years ago and the council listened. That's how long these measures take to change mindsets and cultures. Once the public decides that a town centre isn't for them then that's hard to turn around when the alternative is free parking and a range of quality shops in one place that's warm and safe.

[SydneyRover]

I was thinking more along the lines that as the large chain stores are struggling, online shopping increasing and less money in people's pockets that the if larger shopping centres don't diversify they will have problems in the future.

[RobTheRover]

I agree. But the decline of town centres starts and ends with them.

[Ldr]

I agree. But the decline of town centres starts and ends with them.

Id agree to a large extent Rob but would add that pedestrianisation and restricting parking accellerated it. Convenience rules

[SydneyRover]

I agree. But the decline of town centres starts and ends with them.

Fair enough, I have to be careful to think about where I'm talking about, but as a reply to you and LDR, here wherever pedestrianisation is accelerated and public transport improved it brings more people to the area, but we don't have the really cold winters and the days of drizzle.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I would argue rents are the largest issue.  Pick out arcadia, why did their stores leave the Frenchgate or downsize, the rents are far too big when other retailers online have no rents and thus are cheaper.  The problem is how do these centres survive?

I don't think Doncaster is too bad, streets ahead of Barnsley, Rotherham, Scunthorpe but the town has to evolve.

Right now with the demise of arcadia its more pressing to find jobs for those who will now likely be unemployed like Mrs bfyp unfortunately.

[SydneyRover]

Large shopping centres usually have a refit policy in contracts to ensure a store maintains 'the look' of the centre so they have to pay for a new fitout each 3-5years which on top of rent as you say bfyp and wages it's a tough ask. I hope Mrs bfyp survives any changes. Commercial rents in Sydney have ploughed on with 5% increases every year regardless of economic conditions.

It's not unusual for smaller stores to vacate before the refit is due.

[knockers]

I don't think Doncaster is too bad, streets ahead of Barnsley, Rotherham, Scunthorpe but the town has to evolve.

Not sure Barnsley is worse than us
I was speaking to a market trader this week who has had a stall at Doncaster for nearly 50 years and they have opened up two small shops in Barnsley and that's keeping them afloat. He's thinking of pulling out of Doncaster all together as they get no assistance at all from the Council yet Barnsley council are much more approachable.
This is an outdoor market clothes stall.

[redarmy82]

I don't think Doncaster is too bad, streets ahead of Barnsley, Rotherham, Scunthorpe but the town has to evolve.

Not sure Barnsley is worse than us
I was speaking to a market trader this week who has had a stall at Doncaster for nearly 50 years and they have opened up two small shops in Barnsley and that's keeping them afloat. He's thinking of pulling out of Doncaster all together as they get no assistance at all from the Council yet Barnsley council are much more approachable.
This is an outdoor market clothes stall.

Much less choice of shops, bars, pubs and restaurants in Barnsley.

[RobTheRover]

Barnsley has sunk a small fortune into their new market development, with street food stalls and the like dotted throughout it. It's been a great success.

[Bentley Bullet]

What is the most popular prefered option:

1) Go to your nearest supermarket or outlet and park for free while you walk the short distance to buy your goods. Then, walk the short distance back to your car, with the stuff still in the supermarket trolly, and avoiding the occasionally unavoidable scenario of having to pay for something to be delivered.

Or:
2) Pay to park your car in town. Walk a much greater distance to buy your goods. Then carry your stuff back in several bags (unless they are too big and heavy so you have to pay for delivery), while avoiding bumping into, or tripping over the occasional smackhead?

[redarmy82]

Barnsley has sunk a small fortune into their new market development, with street food stalls and the like dotted throughout it. It's been a great success.

Same as the Wool Market then.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I would argue rents are the largest issue.  Pick out arcadia, why did their stores leave the Frenchgate or downsize, the rents are far too big when other retailers online have no rents and thus are cheaper.  The problem is how do these centres survive?

I don't think Doncaster is too bad, streets ahead of Barnsley, Rotherham, Scunthorpe but the town has to evolve.

Right now with the demise of arcadia its more pressing to find jobs for those who will now likely be unemployed like Mrs bfyp unfortunately.

Really sorry to hear that BFYP. I hope you don't get hit too hard by this.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I would argue rents are the largest issue.  Pick out arcadia, why did their stores leave the Frenchgate or downsize, the rents are far too big when other retailers online have no rents and thus are cheaper.  The problem is how do these centres survive?

I don't think Doncaster is too bad, streets ahead of Barnsley, Rotherham, Scunthorpe but the town has to evolve.

Right now with the demise of arcadia its more pressing to find jobs for those who will now likely be unemployed like Mrs bfyp unfortunately.

Really sorry to hear that BFYP. I hope you don't get hit too hard by this.

Given my employment history it's nothing new to me

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've said many times BFYP, I truly feel for your generation. You've been left a shite inheritance by mine and the one before.

[River Don]

What is the most popular prefered option:

1) Go to your nearest supermarket or outlet and park for free while you walk the short distance to buy your goods. Then, walk the short distance back to your car, with the stuff still in the supermarket trolly, and avoiding the occasionally unavoidable scenario of having to pay for something to be delivered.

Or:
2) Pay to park your car in town. Walk a much greater distance to buy your goods. Then carry your stuff back in several bags (unless they are too big and heavy so you have to pay for delivery), while avoiding bumping into, or tripping over the occasional smackhead?

Or

3) click to pay and wait for the delivery man.

[drfchound]

Additionally they also need to make parking for free between certain times or at weekends bring people into the town centre.

Scunthorpe do it at a weekend where their retail offering is and markets I believe etc.

The issue is it is all shops, shops and shops and when they're closing it shows you that the general public aren't using them. Everyone always seems to blame online shopping if anything the independent shops are a lot better than the bigger shops as there is more of a customer orientated feels to it where as you could walk in 80% of the shops and not one person in the shop speaks to you on the shop floor.

The issue is the rents and business rates are that high they will inevitably take their business online and trade via their own website, or amazon ebay etc.

Who is it that is actually making the decisions on the plan for the town centre.

I like what they've done at the train station looks very smart, in my opinion the Cast is pretty decent too but besides that I don't really see what they're are doing with it.

The only thing I can think of on the top of my head is shops, banks and betting shops that is generally about it and not much else. Totally uninspiring.

With Debenhams now going from the Frenchgate and Argos as well it is looking bleak for the retail offering in the town centre. Maybe time for a re think.

Maybe they ought to do a survey for the general public see what they actually want, at least no one can then complain. But do businesses want to come to Doncaster especially when in my opinion it looks scruffy and worn down.

If there is a survey to see what people want the undoubtedly there will be different opinions so whatever the council decide to do then there will be some people who complain.
A bit like Brexit or a GE I suppose.

[River Don]

Simon Wolfson chief exec of Next advocates raising rates on warehousing and lowering it on shops.

Just doing that would help to level the playing field between online and physical retailers a bit.

[Bentley Bullet]

How would that solve the problems of town centre shopping? It's more the sheer inconvenience of it more than the price of goods in the shops.

[River Don]

I think price is a big factor. Businesses like Boohoo compete very aggressively on price.

Primark is one high street store that keeps dragging the customers in. Somehow it remains very competitive on price.

[drfchound]

I think price is a big factor. Businesses like Boohoo compete very aggressively on price.

Primark is one high street store that keeps dragging the customers in. Somehow it remains very competitive on price.

Neither myself or my wife would buy clothing online.
We like to try stuff on and feel the quality of the product, something you can’t do when buying online.

[River Don]

That maybe true for some Hound. Personally if I see a bargain and the sizing guide looks good I go for it. I bought a jacket, direct from a Chinese brand, just £30 including shipping from China. When it arrived I couldn't believe the quality of it, good weight cotton, well finished seams, high quality metal fastenings.

Something like that would cost a lot more from a high street shop.

[drfchound]

I’m sure it would RD.
You took the chance and it paid off for you.

[Janso]

I think price is a big factor. Businesses like Boohoo compete very aggressively on price.

Primark is one high street store that keeps dragging the customers in. Somehow it remains very competitive on price.

Helps that they likely pay about 2p an hour to the people that make their tat, though. And that it's hardly long-lasting material.

[River Don]

I think price is a big factor. Businesses like Boohoo compete very aggressively on price.

Primark is one high street store that keeps dragging the customers in. Somehow it remains very competitive on price.

Helps that they likely pay about 2p an hour to the people that make their tat, though. And that it's hardly long-lasting material.

A lot of what is available in this country is made in China and the cheap stuff usually is cheap. There is a big markup on it nevertheless.

This is not a cheap garment though, it's heavy weight cotton twill. I did buy it direct though, cutting out the middleman.

I took a bit of a risk with it admittedly but there was still the guarantee and option of returning it with eBay.

[ravenrover]

I think price is a big factor. Businesses like Boohoo compete very aggressively on price.

Primark is one high street store that keeps dragging the customers in. Somehow it remains very competitive on price.

Neither myself or my wife would buy clothing online.
We like to try stuff on and feel the quality of the product, something you can’t do when buying online.

No trying on clothes at the moment, hope your wardrobe is well stocked

[drfchound]

I think price is a big factor. Businesses like Boohoo compete very aggressively on price.

Primark is one high street store that keeps dragging the customers in. Somehow it remains very competitive on price.

Neither myself or my wife would buy clothing online.
We like to try stuff on and feel the quality of the product, something you can’t do when buying online.

No trying on clothes at the moment, hope your wardrobe is well stocked

It is.
There is nothing I need in the clothing department.

[rich1471]

Mike Ashley will buy it to add to his portfolio , he will be waiting for the right price