Another issue for Keir....

[wilts rover]

.......and after that nice prime minister got all that mass testing organised for the people of Liverpool.
So ungrateful..

Yes. And don't forget that nice PM even went on tv to personally thank him and say how well they had worked together too ..hmm

[drfchound]

butnot suspended ............... that one?

But I wasn’t talking about the actions of the Parties, just matching up your comment about anti Labourites.
For balance of course.

Who on here has said the Tory MP is guilty?

Ha, I notice you didn’t ask Sydney who on here has found the Liverpool leader guilty.
Double standards?

[drfchound]

.......and after that nice prime minister got all that mass testing organised for the people of Liverpool.
So ungrateful..

Yes. And don't forget that nice PM even went on tv to personally thank him and say how well they had worked together too ..hmm

Ah, so that makes it all ok then.

[BillyStubbsTears]

butnot suspended ............... that one?

But I wasn’t talking about the actions of the Parties, just matching up your comment about anti Labourites.
For balance of course.

Who on here has said the Tory MP is guilty?

Ha, I notice you didn’t ask Sydney who on here has found the Liverpool leader guilty.
Double standards?

I've had to travel back to find which post you were referring to. I hadn't seen it originally. And yes, you're right, Sydney was unfair to say anyone in here had said Anderson is guilty. And I see the context of your post now. Apologies for the misunderstanding. It's not double standards. It's simply reading your post in isolation, with it not being linked to the one it was responding to.

[drfchound]

Fair enough BST, accepted.

[Metalmicky]

At least KS gets some time to contemplate eh.... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55201080

[wilts rover]

.......and after that nice prime minister got all that mass testing organised for the people of Liverpool.
So ungrateful..

Yes. And don't forget that nice PM even went on tv to personally thank him and say how well they had worked together too ..hmm

Ah, so that makes it all ok then.

Does it? Why is that then?

[SydneyRover]

Bunga bunga continues apace, nice work if you can get it?

''Carrie Symonds' friend Nimco Ali given Home Office role without it being advertised
£350-a-day position as government adviser made via ‘direct appointment process’''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/05/carrie-symonds-close-friend-nimco-ali-given-350-a-day-government-role

[ravenrover]

For 2 days a month!!??

[Glyn_Wigley]

They like to work them hard, you know.

[SydneyRover]

For 2 days a month!!??

£8400/year not bad eh, you remember her the one that refused to condemn the tank top bum boy comments, nice reward.

[Metalmicky]

Seems KS is hitting more bumps in the road...... supporting the Government on the Brexit bill seems to have rattled a few cages among the Labour faithful - and (perhaps more importantly) not just in the traditional party dividing lines. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/31/labour-vote-tory-brexit-keir-starmer-deal

Before I get 'told off' by the wise men of the Forum, I'm just shoving it out there.... no particular political message here.

[Filo]

Starmer had been backed into a corner, by the SNP Lib Dems, DUP and the one Green mp, history tells us that the ERG’s words couldn’t be trusted, he had no option but to back the deal rather than risk a no deal brexit. The problem is the Momentum lot will use anything to bash him with rather than unite the Labour Party. The Tories were always going to gloat over it, it’s in their make up, there’s some right nutcases in the Commons on all sides

[drfchound]

Any deal is better than no deal.
That is what people have continually said.
Isn’t Starmer just voting for the benefit of the Nation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

[Filo]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

Which is baffling, a far left group preferring a far right group in Government

[Ldr]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

Which is baffling, a far left group preferring a far right group in Government

Nothing logical about the cult of Corbyn mate

[selby]

  Err Hasn't the senior Tory party member had all charges dropped against him? I suppose much to the annoyance of some posters on here.
  He has been rubbing it in as well in the last few days getting lot's of exposure again, which will be even more annoying to you like a pesky fly on the end of your nose, bloody brilliant another loss.

[EasyforDennis]

  Err Hasn't the senior Tory party member had all charges dropped against him? I suppose much to the annoyance of some posters on here.
  He has been rubbing it in as well in the last few days getting lot's of exposure again, which will be even more annoying to you like a pesky fly on the end of your nose, bloody brilliant another loss.

You will be telling us next that Priti Awful has never bullied anyone in her life.

[wilts rover]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

Yes, how those Corbynistas like Gordon Brown, Alastair Campbell, Andrew Adonis and Ben Bradshaw have the nerve to keep pushing their remoaner agenda I will never know...

It's up to Starmer to set out his vision and what he expects the Labour Party to stand for. If people agree with it they will back him. If they don't , they wont. That's democracy.

[wilts rover]

  Err Hasn't the senior Tory party member had all charges dropped against him? I suppose much to the annoyance of some posters on here.
  He has been rubbing it in as well in the last few days getting lot's of exposure again, which will be even more annoying to you like a pesky fly on the end of your nose, bloody brilliant another loss.

Yes the police dropped the charges due to lack of evidence. The complainant is appealing this:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/13/police-drop-investigation-into-tory-mp-accused-of-rape-13744563/

[scawsby steve]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

Which is baffling, a far left group preferring a far right group in Government

It's not baffling Filo. The far left and the far right have always been anti-EU.

That's the link.

[wilts rover]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

Which is baffling, a far left group preferring a far right group in Government

It's not baffling Filo. The far left and the far right have always been anti-EU.

That's the link.

Momentum are pro-EU. Does this mean they are not far-left?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.
Agreed. But I repeat. I fail to see what good, either immediately or long term it can do for Labour to have this public argument.

[tyke1962]

Starmer's doing the only thing he can, politically.

Brexit is done now. It's a mistake but it is done.

The Tories want to keep Brexit alive as a political fracture point. They want to be able to keep saying to the 25% of previous Lab supporters who support Brexit that Labour are still against them.

Labour has to neutralise Brexit. That is why Starmer told Lab MPs to vote for this deal. So that it minimises the effect of Johnson saying Lab is still against Brexit.

It's dirty and messy but it is politics.

The interesting thing is why Corbyn and McDonnell are making such a big song and dance about this. Almost as if they want to keep the Brexit argument going. Because if it does, Starmer is sunk. I suspect the Corbynistas would prefer that to a Starmer-led Labour victory in 2024.

Which is baffling, a far left group preferring a far right group in Government

It's not baffling Filo. The far left and the far right have always been anti-EU.

That's the link.

Momentum are pro-EU. Does this mean they are not far-left?

It's the traditional left who were anti EU , Benn , Scargill , Foot , Castle and the rest of the trade union movement before the miners strike .

I don't know what you'd class Momentum as , load of middle class , graduate and metropolitan champagne socialists pinning their colours to the EU whilst the working class take it up the rear possibly .

Nay mind , it's over now , I'm sure they'll find another cause to protest about soon enough , the price of coffee in Starbucks most likely .

[Janso]

Why does it seem as though you think you're the only one allowed to define what or who are working class, or who are "proper" left wing and who's just looking for another protest?

[MachoMadness]

Tyke seems to think you can't be working class unless you're from up north and went down the pit. I guarantee you Tyke, there are 20-something Momentum members working minimum wage table waiting jobs in London who are working class through and through - most of them won't ever get the chance to enjoy the comfortable lifestyle you appear to live. Assuming they'll all vote Labour because they're the least worst option, as yourself and the current leadership appear to is a fools game.

[tyke1962]

Why does it seem as though you think you're the only one allowed to define what or who are working class, or who are "proper" left wing and who's just looking for another protest?

I don't think my opinion is of any more value than anybody else .

I didn't say the proper left , I said the traditional left from back in the day when we had strong trade unions and they were all anti EU .

Would you like me to rewrite history ?

This is played out today because the last man standing as a trade union with serious clout are the RMT who are anti EU .

The fact is following the miners strike the other trade unions in this country sort refuge in the EU as a consequence of Thatcher's policies .

The phrase frying pan in to the fire was
never more appropriate .

Maybe they thought the word Union was some kind of connection ..... bless !!! .

I merely speak as a trade union man , ex NUM and proudly working class who hasn't moved an inch on his opinion of the EU .

Billy says I'm a minority in this day and age , surely given that assessment the current Labour Party should be all over me given that's the only thing they want to represent .

You'd be better placed to actually debate how Labour are going to win the vote back in the Red Wall rather than whose lefter than who .

I'm comfortable in my skin .

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM
Seems to me that it needs some hard-headness on the part of Labour supporters. There's a huge gulf in outlooks between the old, post-Industrial Labour heartland and the young, metropolitan, globalist Left. But unless they both coalesce in supporting Labour, there is zero chance of ever getting a left leaning Govt.

Starmer knows this. He has to pull both sides together. But if both sides insist on things being acceptable only on their terms, the left is electorally dead in the water.

It needs both sides to see that reaching out to the other is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

In simple terms, you can get some of what you want or nothing. Neither side can get all of what it wants. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

If you ever want to see a left Govt again, you'd do well to ponder what I just wrote.

You can hanker for the past but it is the past. The only way the left wins in future is by appealing to ex-miners in Barnsley, graduates in Bristol and third generation Bengalis in Tower Hamlets. If you insist on seeing the other two as an enemy to be baited and defeated, then you can look forward to right wing Governments for the rest of your life.