Another issue for Keir....

[Janso]

There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.

[tyke1962]

How patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.

Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.

I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .

I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .

The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .

It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .

I don't have it particularly hard, but I really don't know who you think you are thinking you're the one who gets to decide who's "worthy" by your standards.

You just come across as a typical "youth of today ra ra ra" boomer.

Maybe folk are a little too easily offended these days .

Maybe folk are a little patronising and stuck in the past these days.

Stuck in the past is an interesting one Janso given the same old problems still exist , also known as the distribution of wealth .

I've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .

I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .

If that offends or come across badly , so be it .

[Janso]

How patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.

Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.

I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .

I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .

The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .

It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .

I don't have it particularly hard, but I really don't know who you think you are thinking you're the one who gets to decide who's "worthy" by your standards.

You just come across as a typical "youth of today ra ra ra" boomer.

Maybe folk are a little too easily offended these days .

Maybe folk are a little patronising and stuck in the past these days.

Stuck in the past is an interesting one Janso given the same old problems still exist , also known as the distribution of wealth .

I've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .

I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .

If that offends or come across badly , so be it .

I've very little time for people who think they're the white knights and gate keepers of the left wing because they lived in a certain era.

[wilts rover]

There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.

Saw that. I guess they must have had advance notice of that new poll just out which shows the Boris bounce:

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1345449741950349315

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

"Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."

I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.

Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS.

Inflation had got out of control in 1972-5. By 1978 it had come down significantly. It did start to go up again in 1979, but it is absurd to suggest that is why Labour's support collapsed in the winter of 78/79. It collapsed because of the suicidal actions of the unions. Labour was in a decent position to win in early 1979. Then the TGWU f**ked them over. THE blindest, most stupid action ever by the British Labour movement.

[Filo]

There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.

Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our lives

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

"Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."

I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.

Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.

Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .

Oh well .

They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .

However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .

Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .

The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .

As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .

I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .

Quite beyond belief.

Tyke. You INHERITED an organised Labour movement. You didn't invent the bloody thing from scratch!

Then your generation destroyed it by fighting the wrong bloody enemy. And now, with the union movement decimated, you blame young people for it!

Stunning re-writing of history.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

"Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."

I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.

Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.

Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .

Oh well .

They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .

However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .

Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .

The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .

As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .

So you are just going to ignore the polling facts and insist you are right? You're going to ignore the fact that Callaghan's Labour were ahead in the polls before the WoD and you are going to insist that Labour losing in 1979 is Callaghan's fault?

[MachoMadness]

Starmer isn't resigning tomorrow. It's a meme that's being pushed to bait the Labour frontbench into responding. It's just shitposting, don't think about it too much.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

"Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."

I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.

Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.

Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .

Oh well .

They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .

However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .

Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .

The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .

As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .

So you are just going to ignore the polling facts and insist you are right? You're going to ignore the fact that Callaghan's Labour were ahead in the polls before the WoD and you are going to insist that Labour losing in 1979 is Callaghan's fault?

Opinion polls aren't necessarily the facts today never mind in the late 1970's Billy .

You are also assuming that every member of a trade union voted Labour in 1979 , they didn't and the reason they didn't is because membership of a trade union was accepted by both tories and labour so carried less allegiance to party politics you are imagining .

They weren't prepared to eat Labour's austerity pie and had enough about em to do something about it .

It's as simple as that really , the 79 election was neither here nor there .

[tyke1962]

There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.

Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our lives

So Momentum speak for the whole country , wow ... who knew !!

[Filo]

There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.

Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our lives

So Momentum speak for the whole country , wow ... who knew !!

You know very well what I mean, they will and are splitting the labour vote rather than coming together for the good of the labour party, they have had 2 goes at a General Election with their poster boy as leader and failed, they are trying every tool at their disposal to ensure any leader that they don’t approve of will fail to win an election

[DonnyOsmond]

The mainstream party that is left of center pushing away a large number of left wing voters probably isn't the smart thing to do though.

[wilts rover]

Nor is making up stuff about Momentum. Or falling for Tory disinformation scams.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

This thread highlights what I've said on here several times, that Starmer has taken on a momentous task, to unite a party that is hopelessly split between the liberalists and the left, the North and the South, and the young and the old.

Then, if he miraculously manages that, he's got to turn an 80 seat Tory majority into a Labour majority.

I don't envy his task one bit.

I do think on balance he has an overall good chance of attracting a lot of floating voters who aren't happy with the conservatives if his policies are a little more towards the centre. The problem he has is that alienates other part of his party and how that plays out is fascinating.  A lot of people who aren't happy with the Tories right now will want a home and labour can sieze that opportunity.

[tyke1962]

There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.

Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our lives

So Momentum speak for the whole country , wow ... who knew !!

You know very well what I mean, they will and are splitting the labour vote rather than coming together for the good of the labour party, they have had 2 goes at a General Election with their poster boy as leader and failed, they are trying every tool at their disposal to ensure any leader that they don’t approve of will fail to win an election

Well that's fair enough but it's also worth pointing out that the Blairites and the centre of the Labour Party did exactly the same when Corbyn had the gig .

Nobody is clearly coming out of this well as far as gaining the keys to number 10 that much we do know .

I'd suggest most Labour voters on election day are somewhere between Blair and Corbyn which is why I thought Starmer may have half a sniff .

There's two sides to this , the centre and Blairites were totally pyssed off when Corbyn was elected leader not once but twice and fecking romped home too to be fair .

So it's retribution time now for SKS mainly because he's slung Corbyn out .

I was neither a Blairite or for Corbyn so it's not a tribal thing for me .

I get the fact Labour has to find a new vision and Corbynism had to go because he got routed in 2019 but he aint antisemitic either and that's proper unfair but SKS has used that as his weapon so you can see why they are gunning for Starmer .

The party elected the wrong brother and it's been a shyte show since .

[DonnyOsmond]

I thought Ed was pretty decent tbf. Most genuine from both sides in years.

[tyke1962]

I thought Ed was pretty decent tbf. Most genuine from both sides in years.

But lost to Cameron which is a bit of a shocker .

I'm not saying David was my dog in the fight but he had more appeal than Ed in my opinion to the whole electorate .

All I know Starmer is eating a proper shyte sandwich  at the moment .

At least he's got time on his side and it's now the post brexit period .

It's a long game is this with thankfully the former Red Wall now relevant .

The think tanks need to get pro active big time .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

"Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."

I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.

Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.

Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .

Oh well .

They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .

However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .

Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .

The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .

As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .

So you are just going to ignore the polling facts and insist you are right? You're going to ignore the fact that Callaghan's Labour were ahead in the polls before the WoD and you are going to insist that Labour losing in 1979 is Callaghan's fault?

Opinion polls aren't necessarily the facts today never mind in the late 1970's Billy .

You are also assuming that every member of a trade union voted Labour in 1979 , they didn't and the reason they didn't is because membership of a trade union was accepted by both tories and labour so carried less allegiance to party politics you are imagining .

They weren't prepared to eat Labour's austerity pie and had enough about em to do something about it .

It's as simple as that really , the 79 election was neither here nor there .

Tyke

1) No poll is ever perfect. But, when the running average of a party's poll figures drops by 10% pretty much overnight, that is ALWAYS because something major has happened to reduce the party's popularity. Labour's figures dropped 10% overnight as the WoD bit. It is ridiculous of you to ignore that.

2) I'm not talking about trades unionists being the ones who deserted Labour. It was predominantly NON-trades unionists, on non-militant ones who were shocked by unions tipping the country into chaos, and who linked Labour with that. Several million people who flipped from Labour to Tory in January 1979 and who then voted for the Tories in May 1979. THEY put Thatcher into No10 and heralded the destruction of the unions.

The unions brought it on themselves. Absolute stupidity. Because they couldn't see the big strategic picture.

[tyke1962]

I've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .

I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .

Quite beyond belief.

Tyke. You INHERITED an organised Labour movement. You didn't invent the bloody thing from scratch!

Then your generation destroyed it by fighting the wrong bloody enemy. And now, with the union movement decimated, you blame young people for it!

Stunning re-writing of history.

Just to clarify I just turned 17 when Thatcher was elected and only started representing people in the workplace when I'd left the mining industry with the women in total control of every aspect of people's lives , well apart from the likes of me .

How lucky was I when folk were buying their council houses and Sid was selling you shares  you already owned ? .

Thankfully I saw women get what she deserved when she thought the Poll Tax was a good idea and I was in Central London in March 1990 and played my part in what occurred that day and saw both her and the Poll Tax removed and the Met get payback day from the strike .

Possibly you were busy that day looking at the opinion polls , the cynic in me thinks you'd have paid the fecker ... who knows ? .

[scawsby steve]

Personally, I wasn't keen on any of the Milliband brothers. I always liked Andy Burnham, and still do.

Interestingly, he's up again for election as Mayor of Greater Manchester in May, if he's standing. That would take him to 2024.

If Starmer loses, AB would be the perfect replacement for me. Assuming, of course, that he fancies another stab at it.

[selby]

  The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government.
  Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so  and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government.
  Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down.
  Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.

[Filo]

  The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government.
  Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so  and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government.
  Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down.
  Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.

Not one Labour party mp voted against the party, the Labour Govt was a minority Govt at that time, they lost the vote by 1 vote, the SNP and Libs brought the Govt down

Do you just make stuff up as you type it?

[Janso]

  The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government.
  Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so  and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government.
  Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down.
  Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.

Not one Labour party mp voted against the party, the Labour Govt was a minority Govt at that time, they lost the vote by 1 vote, the SNP and Libs brought the Govt down

Do you just make stuff up as you type it?

Do you really need to ask? then when he's caught out he was trying to wind us up all along.

[Filo]

  The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government.
  Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so  and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government.
  Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down.
  Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.

Not one Labour party mp voted against the party, the Labour Govt was a minority Govt at that time, they lost the vote by 1 vote, the SNP and Libs brought the Govt down

Do you just make stuff up as you type it?

Do you really need to ask? then when he's caught out he was trying to wind us up all along.

And just to clear things up there was one Labour abstention, and that was because the MP was hours from dying, he still wanted to vote but the PM said he couldn’t let him travel in case he died en route, a Tory MP was supposed to abstain in a pairing up deal, but he didn’t and the vote was won by one vote, the Tory’s have always been treacherous bas**rds

[Glyn_Wigley]

Plus, Ford had nothing it do with it. The Tories supported the vote of no confidence because the SNP had already raised one due to Devolution not happening after the referendum didn't get the necessary result to make it happen. Prior to this the SNP had voted with the Government in order to make sure the referendum took place.

[Filo]

Plus, Ford had nothing it do with it. The Tories supported the vote of no confidence because the SNP had already raised one due to Devolution not happening after the referendum didn't get the necessary result to make it happen. Prior to this the SNP had voted with the Government in order to make sure the referendum took place.

And the SNP lost 9 of their 11 seats at the election, that panned out well for them didn’t it?

[tyke1962]

So other than Starmer heckling the on stage comedian once a week at PMQ's when is he going to reveal himself , develop a strategy and some policies ? .

Well I sincerely hope they are doing more listening than talking because telling folk like me what we should think or not think ain't worked too well for the last 10 years .

What I want to see personally .

1 , Clean the bloody streets and communities up , big sentences for carrying knifes , drug dealing and anti social behaviour , not plastic bobby's but a huge increase in on the ground Police Officers , your seen as the soft party ..... change it .

2 , End back door NHS privatisation whilst also having a root and branch appraisal of NHS procurement procedures , heads to roll if not delivering the best value for the taxpayer .

3 , Stop prioritising minorities and start speaking for everybody as one , it creates divides , the very thing the tories cash in on , you do the fecking work for em .

4 , Fund council's so they can purchase more housing stock , funded council owned properties and maintenance programmes are the best landlords you can have .

5 , The Jeremy Kyle benefit culture began with you lot and Blair , don't go there again and I don't give a feck how many kids they have either , they brought em in to the world so they feed em , it's not up to Mr Joe Taxpayer to do it but at least have the nous to make work pay more than benefits .

6 , End ZHC's entirely , only two contracts should exist , full time or agreed number of part time hours at the point of appointment .

6 tests for thi Starmer , hope tha does better than tha did with the last ones you set yourself .