Fans reaction at Millwall to BLM

[DonnyOsmond]

As much as it may offend people the fans reaction to the taking of the knee - they have the right to show their displeasure by booing - it’s a free expression thing - they have the right to say this is football and not politics and the two must be kept separate.

Tell that to the Millwall player Mahlon Romeo who was looking forward to supporters being back but had his team's "supporters" booing a campaign for equality for people of his background.

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/mahlon-romeo-angry-and-hurt-by-those-millwall-fans-who-booed-taking-the-knee-gesture/

[sedwardsdrfc]

As much as it may offend people the fans reaction to the taking of the knee - they have the right to show their displeasure by booing - it’s a free expression thing - they have the right to say this is football and not politics and the two must be kept separate.

This view that you can do/believe what you want because it’s freedom of expression is so dangerous. I’m not sure how booing can be translated into keeping football and politics separate either if that’s what they want why not articulate it.

Also how is standing up against racism political? It’s not at all and has been part of football a long time with the stand up to racism campaigns. This is just harder to ignore than some would like hence the booing.

[VivaRovers]

Of course they do. As I’ve previously said, ALL lives matter

And as multiple people have previously said, no-one is suggesting that isn't the case. All lives matter is the emptiest of statements. It's like saying all sky is up.

[tyke1962]

Millwall are a pretty unique club in London , its drawn it's support from the traditional white working class in south east London and in to Kent .

Modern day Spurs , Arsenal or Chelsea it most certainly isn't and never will be .

This is the section of society who have seen their communities change vastly because of mass immigration and have ended up the losers in globalisation both culturally and possibly economically .

Nobody speaks for them because the Labour Party decided many years ago to hang their hat on another peg .

Why would they embrace their players taking the knee or throwing their hat behind minority groups when nobody speaks for them ? .

To call them racists and bigots is the standard play of the liberal left without first acknowledging globalisation is a two way street for many traditional communities in the UK .

They have every right to call this tokenism out as they see it and should be able to do so without accusations from the usual suspects in the MSM and liberal left .

As the song goes , nobody likes us but we don't care .

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Taking a knee is a symbol that black lives do matter too, as well as other races, equally. Forget trying to politicise it just because a minority use the name BLM for their own wrong agendas, in the same way the EDL use the St George's flag... The flags not a symbol of racism in the same as the term black lives matter isn't a racist or in any way dangerous thing. Taking a knee is a way of those players on the pitch showing they're united despite possibly being from different backgrounds, they're all equals... Booing makes it seem like you're against that message, that everyone is equal.

Well said!

People have said to me, when are the players going to stop this knee thing!

Why should they. They can and should carry on doing it for me as long as we continue to have shows of ignorance like today.

[MachoMadness]

Worth remembering that these EXACT same arguments - they're Marxist, they're anti-capitalist, they're a violent mob, they already have equality, why do they have to keep going on about it - have been used against the black civil rights movement since the 50s, and probably before. People look up to Martin Luther King today, but he was condemned as a violent anti-capitalist terrorist sympathiser back then. Same with Mandela. Same with Malcolm X. Same with Mohammed Ali. Same with any number of black civil rights leaders/movements through the years. And same with BLM today.

Think on that before you spew those same arguments. That's not saying everyone who uses these arguments is a racist, but you are allowing yourself to be a mouthpiece for people who are. Think carefully about who you're sharing a side with.

You don't have to take the knee, no. There are plenty of black people who don't approve of it, and Les Ferdinand wrote eloquently about why he doesn't think they should at QPR. But if you're booing it, or you genuinely think booing it is remotely acceptable, you're part of the problem - doesn't matter whether you think you're racist or not.

[tyke1962]

Worth remembering that these EXACT same arguments - they're Marxist, they're anti-capitalist, they're a violent mob, they already have equality, why do they have to keep going on about it - have been used against the black civil rights movement since the 50s, and probably before. People look up to Martin Luther King today, but he was condemned as a violent anti-capitalist terrorist sympathiser back then. Same with Mandela. Same with Malcolm X. Same with Mohammed Ali. Same with any number of black civil rights leaders/movements through the years. And same with BLM today.

Think on that before you spew those same arguments. That's not saying everyone who uses these arguments is a racist, but you are allowing yourself to be a mouthpiece for people who are. Think carefully about who you're sharing a side with.

You don't have to take the knee, no. There are plenty of black people who don't approve of it, and Les Ferdinand wrote eloquently about why he doesn't think they should at QPR. But if you're booing it, or you genuinely think booing it is remotely acceptable, you're part of the problem - doesn't matter whether you think you're racist or not.

Here's the thing right , your average Millwall fan doesn't have the same platform to eloquently put his argument forward as Les Ferdinand does so your analysis to me is seriously flawed .

Booing is all they have .

In fact reactionary is all they have because for decades nobody has ever made the argument for the white working class who are the losers in mass immigration and globalisation .

Your post is pretty much the standard play , we recognise you have a point but please don't show your hand this way .

In other words fall in line or we'll call you out as racists and bigots .

I'll give the liberal left some credit , they lose the argument at the ballot box but still find ways to stay in the game .

[Janso]

Incredible that people manage to make racial equality a left/right thing.

In what world is it a political belief that people of all colours should be treated equally and not just basic human decency that's been denied these people for centuries?

[BradwellRover]

Millwall are a pretty unique club in London , its drawn it's support from the traditional white working class in south east London and in to Kent .

Modern day Spurs , Arsenal or Chelsea it most certainly isn't and never will be .

This is the section of society who have seen their communities change vastly because of mass immigration and have ended up the losers in globalisation both culturally and possibly economically .

Nobody speaks for them because the Labour Party decided many years ago to hang their hat on another peg .

Why would they embrace their players taking the knee or throwing their hat behind minority groups when nobody speaks for them ? .

To call them racists and bigots is the standard play of the liberal left without first acknowledging globalisation is a two way street for many traditional communities in the UK .

They have every right to call this tokenism out as they see it and should be able to do so without accusations from the usual suspects in the MSM and liberal left .

As the song goes , nobody likes us but we don't care .

Wow, just wow.  I don’t even know where to start with responding to that nonsense. Interesting that you see yourself as the voice of the working class and the voice of Barnsley.

Can you please just go away now?

[tyke1962]

Millwall are a pretty unique club in London , its drawn it's support from the traditional white working class in south east London and in to Kent .

Modern day Spurs , Arsenal or Chelsea it most certainly isn't and never will be .

This is the section of society who have seen their communities change vastly because of mass immigration and have ended up the losers in globalisation both culturally and possibly economically .

Nobody speaks for them because the Labour Party decided many years ago to hang their hat on another peg .

Why would they embrace their players taking the knee or throwing their hat behind minority groups when nobody speaks for them ? .

To call them racists and bigots is the standard play of the liberal left without first acknowledging globalisation is a two way street for many traditional communities in the UK .

They have every right to call this tokenism out as they see it and should be able to do so without accusations from the usual suspects in the MSM and liberal left .

As the song goes , nobody likes us but we don't care .

Wow, just wow.  I don’t even know where to start with responding to that nonsense. Interesting that you see yourself as the voice of the working class and the voice of Barnsley.

Can you please just go away now?

Interesting that you don't know where to start and no I won't go away because that's exactly what's gone off these past few decades .

I'm not the voice of anybody but the electorate are and the results are pretty comprehensive .

People of colour don't own inequality which is my point and they most certainly don't in the old industrial heartlands in the UK .

Nobody but nobody recognises that or even wants to address it .

There's a bigger picture here and nobody but nobody has picked up on why it played out the way it did this afternoon at the New Den .

That's my entire point .

[MachoMadness]

Worth remembering that these EXACT same arguments - they're Marxist, they're anti-capitalist, they're a violent mob, they already have equality, why do they have to keep going on about it - have been used against the black civil rights movement since the 50s, and probably before. People look up to Martin Luther King today, but he was condemned as a violent anti-capitalist terrorist sympathiser back then. Same with Mandela. Same with Malcolm X. Same with Mohammed Ali. Same with any number of black civil rights leaders/movements through the years. And same with BLM today.

Think on that before you spew those same arguments. That's not saying everyone who uses these arguments is a racist, but you are allowing yourself to be a mouthpiece for people who are. Think carefully about who you're sharing a side with.

You don't have to take the knee, no. There are plenty of black people who don't approve of it, and Les Ferdinand wrote eloquently about why he doesn't think they should at QPR. But if you're booing it, or you genuinely think booing it is remotely acceptable, you're part of the problem - doesn't matter whether you think you're racist or not.

Here's the thing right , your average Millwall fan doesn't have the same platform to eloquently put his argument forward as Les Ferdinand does so your analysis to me is seriously flawed .

Booing is all they have .

In fact reactionary is all they have because for decades nobody has ever made the argument for the white working class who are the losers in mass immigration and globalisation .

Your post is pretty much the standard play , we recognise you have a point but please don't show your hand this way .

In other words fall in line or we'll call you out as racists and bigots .

I'll give the liberal left some credit , they lose the argument at the ballot box but still find ways to stay in the game .

Tyke, you don't seem to have responded to my post, but rather you seem to be responding to what you would like me to have said.

Why isn't anti racism working class? Why is the view that racism should be called out whenever it appears, some sort of middle class soy latte sipping opinion? Here's the thing, when my wife's grandparents came over to escape Jim crow in the States, it was the socialists and trade union members who opened their door to them. Racism in this country came from the top down, it didn't grow from the bottom up. When the establishment were sending leaflets to people saying "if you want a nigger for a neighbour vote liberal and labour", it was the working classes who made them feel at home here. So to insinuate that being proper working class is only for white people, or that anti racism is something for the middle classes to get votes, it's beyond insulting. You have a very warped world view for someone who claims to be an old fashioned socialist. I'm not going to take lectures on what it means to be working class from someone like that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As much as it may offend people the fans reaction to the taking of the knee - they have the right to show their displeasure by booing - it’s a free expression thing - they have the right to say this is football and not politics and the two must be kept separate.

But they booed because they are right wing racist stop making excuses.

We would be horrified if fans booed during the minute silence at a game on Remembrance Weekend. It's about showing respect for what other people have experienced.

Why should taking the knee continue at football matches? Because regularly there are examples of fans racially abusing players at matches. Taking the knee is a way for all players to show publicly that they will not tacitly condone that.

[BradwellRover]

Millwall are a pretty unique club in London , its drawn it's support from the traditional white working class in south east London and in to Kent .

Modern day Spurs , Arsenal or Chelsea it most certainly isn't and never will be .

This is the section of society who have seen their communities change vastly because of mass immigration and have ended up the losers in globalisation both culturally and possibly economically .

Nobody speaks for them because the Labour Party decided many years ago to hang their hat on another peg .

Why would they embrace their players taking the knee or throwing their hat behind minority groups when nobody speaks for them ? .

To call them racists and bigots is the standard play of the liberal left without first acknowledging globalisation is a two way street for many traditional communities in the UK .

They have every right to call this tokenism out as they see it and should be able to do so without accusations from the usual suspects in the MSM and liberal left .

As the song goes , nobody likes us but we don't care .

Wow, just wow.  I don’t even know where to start with responding to that nonsense. Interesting that you see yourself as the voice of the working class and the voice of Barnsley.

Can you please just go away now?

Interesting that you don't know where to start and no I won't go away because that's exactly what's gone off these past few decades .

I'm not the voice of anybody but the electorate are and the results are pretty comprehensive .

People of colour don't own inequality which is my point and they most certainly don't in the old industrial heartlands in the UK .

Nobody but nobody recognises that or even wants to address it .

There's a bigger picture here and nobody but nobody has picked up on why it played out the way it did this afternoon at the New Den .

That's my entire point .

Lucky we have you here to explain what ‘nobody but nobody’ else can possibly understand. 

Oh no, wait. 

You don’t have a point, or unique insight, just an opinion based on a distorted view of the world.  Thats the reason why I don’t know where to start. 

Many issues exist in the former industrial heartlands, but to use that as an explanation for racism is both lazy and offensive.  Further, much has been done to try to support these communities, which proves that people are concerned about wider inequity.  Or do you have an alternative explanation for decades of targeted funding at areas scoring highest on the indices of multiple deprivation?

[sha66y]

Showing respect now there’s a wonderful concept,

respect for what exactly?

[tyke1962]

Open question .

Will somebody please accept the effects of globalisation and mass immigration have created losers especially in the old industrial heartlands .

Just recognise that has happened and maybe just maybe we can cut through this debate and move forward from the current position .

That's all I ask .

[Janso]

Surely to Christ you can accept that the slave trade and state-sponsored racism in the form of segregation on the basis of colour is a little worse? Jesus wept.

[River Don]

Globalisation has impacted traditional working class communities in this country economically. Mass immigration probably has too but to a much lesser degree. That said, the main driver of globalisation of markets has been coming from SE Asia and most notably China. In Europe it's been the opening up of the old Eastern Block. There are not many black folks working in those places.

Generally black people from Africa and South America are still firmly at the bottom of the pile economically. In contrast white working class people in the UK are very comfortably off.

[BradwellRover]

Open question .

Will somebody please accept the effects of globalisation and mass immigration have created losers especially in the old industrial heartlands .

Just recognise that has happened and maybe just maybe we can cut through this debate and move forward from the current position .

That's all I ask .

Unbelievable...when losing the argument, try switching the field.

Globalisation has of course played a role in the way in which some communities have declined, but it’s part of a much wider picture that includes half a century (or more) of chronic underinvestment in infrastructure and industry by successive governments of both persuasions. This has mainly been driven by the dominance of neo-liberal economic thinking.

But to place the blame on other poor people, many of whom were encouraged to come here from other countries, initially to do the shit jobs no one wanted to do, is just wrong.

And to try to make sweeping statements about working class people, as if they are one homogenous group is offensive.
 

[MachoMadness]

Open question .

Will somebody please accept the effects of globalisation and mass immigration have created losers especially in the old industrial heartlands .

Just recognise that has happened and maybe just maybe we can cut through this debate and move forward from the current position .

That's all I ask .

Tyke, apologies for blowing up earlier. This is a very sore subject for me for what are probably obvious reasons. I have very little patience for some on here because of this but I like to think you're coming at this in good faith.

The "losers" are because of a general classism in British society. They aren't created because there are too many brown faces knocking about these days. There are a lot of working class white people being left behind, yes. But that isn't BECAUSE they're white. As others have said, it's more to do with chronic underinvestment in working class areas for political gain, and divide-and-rule games being played out in the media.

A stat that's often thrown out - and one you've alluded to - is that working class white kids often do worse at school, leaving with (on paper) worse job prospects than black kids, on average. What many people don't realise is that a lot of the Nigerians, Jamaicans, Syrians, etc who move here are actually very well-educated, but they're forced to move into traditionally low-income working class areas because their status as immigrants means many doors are closed to them. It's no surprise that the children of immigrants who were engineers and doctors in their homeland often do better in school than many white kids in these areas. But the solution to the relative underperforming of these left behind working class white kids is NOT to throw black and brown people under the bus. It's not to start nodding along with the far-right when they talk about mass immigration and globalisation, and it certainly isn't booing a movement that mainly wants to stop black people from being targeted by the justice system.

The media and the establishment like to pretend that, because these black kids are doing relatively well in some areas, that it's the white working class who are the real victims in all this and the BLM movement is just a bunch of anti-white hooligans getting above their station. This is what they've always done, for decades. It's a message that's easy to nod along with if you're from Edlington like me, and you're surrounded by white people going through hard times every day. But the solution to this problem isn't just shrugging your shoulders at racism and accepting it as one of those things. Handwaving it all away as those liberal lefties whinging again isn't actually going to help those left behind, is it? All it does is distract from the real problem and make things worse.

[Mustapha-Dump]

Millwall are a pretty unique club in London , its drawn it's support from the traditional white working class in south east London and in to Kent .

Modern day Spurs , Arsenal or Chelsea it most certainly isn't and never will be .

This is the section of society who have seen their communities change vastly because of mass immigration and have ended up the losers in globalisation both culturally and possibly economically .

Nobody speaks for them because the Labour Party decided many years ago to hang their hat on another peg .

Why would they embrace their players taking the knee or throwing their hat behind minority groups when nobody speaks for them ? .

To call them racists and bigots is the standard play of the liberal left without first acknowledging globalisation is a two way street for many traditional communities in the UK .

They have every right to call this tokenism out as they see it and should be able to do so without accusations from the usual suspects in the MSM and liberal left .

As the song goes , nobody likes us but we don't care .

Wow, just wow.  I don’t even know where to start with responding to that nonsense. Interesting that you see yourself as the voice of the working class and the voice of Barnsley.

Can you please just go away now?

Theres a bigger picture here and nobody but nobody has picked up on why it played out the way it did this afternoon at the New Den .

Loads of people have picked up on why it happened, it’s because largely the stereotypes associated with that club aren’t far wrong, and they point largely towards millwall fans being mindless, racist, problem-attracting thugs. Read your posts for years as a decent bloke, very disappointed that my pre conceived ideas of you have taken a huge dent tonight, oh well.

[CoppsChop]

This is the section of society who have seen their communities change vastly because of mass immigration and have ended up the losers in globalisation both culturally and possibly economically .

Nobody speaks for them because the Labour Party decided many years ago to hang their hat on another peg .

Why would they embrace their players taking the knee or throwing their hat behind minority groups when nobody speaks for them ? .

To call them racists and bigots is the standard play of the liberal left without first acknowledging globalisation is a two way street for many traditional communities in the UK .

They have every right to call this tokenism out as they see it and should be able to do so without accusations from the usual suspects in the MSM and liberal left .

As the song goes , nobody likes us but we don't care .

Taking a knee has nothing to do with globalism but because working class people have problems, we cant expect them to oppose racism or support their team opposing it?

Workers of all colours in this country have a lot going against them and a lot of people working against them, but those opposing racism are not among them.

I am pleased to see Rovers taking a knee and hope we continue. It is no more a token gesture than wearing poppies every year.

[Campsall rover]

Should this thread be in off topic.

It seems to have moved on from the OP.

[Padge_DRFC]

Should this thread be in off topic.

It seems to have moved on from the OP.

I agree with you ☺️

[mjg]

Good on them , I’m going to boo as well

[Lytham Rover]

Interesting one this. The MSM have come of and condemned it. No surprise there.
It had to be Millwall of course that brought attention upon themselves for this.
I have asked myself what I think of this, and would like to put it to the floor.
I have served queen and country and had the pleasure of serving alongside many BAME colleagues with pride. I am most definitely not racist, conscious or otherwise.
I understand there are many communities across the globe that still suffer discrimination and prejudice and this is wrong.
But BLM is a political movement supporting ant capitalism, defunding the police amongst others. They have been described as a Marxist movement. This is well documented. They don’t hide behind these facts.
It does not belong in sport. Politics and sport should not mix imho. We know what happens when it does. You only have to look at Olympic history to see this.
Taking a knee  has had its day. Leave it for the streets of Washington DC.
The kick it out campaign was, I understand, very successful and supported wholly across the whole football pyramid.
BLM is much much more than this though, and not necessarily positive.
I wonder how the faithful at the KM would react to players taking the knee?
Thoughts?

The only people saying that BLM is Marxist are Trump and his supporters attempting to distract and discredit a spontaneous reaction to institution alised racism especially in America where black lives are not as valued as white lives
For my money anyone who is against the levelling up of human rights is inhuman

[mjg]

It all started in the USA when the fella died when the police knelt on his neck , the people went on to ruin people’s businesses through violence  looting and destruction, I with boo the taking a knee as all it does is encourage racism not cure it

[Janso]

Good on them , I’m going to boo as well

Well in, proper hardo you.

[mjg]

And them that are saying they are NOT are left wing fanatics

[mjg]

And your brave behind your computer

[mjg]

They might stop the silly thing