Fans reaction at Millwall to BLM

[IDM]

You’re confusing the aims of an organisation called BLM with the general philosophy of Black Lives Matter..  perhaps there should be alternative names.?

Also, the looters represent the minority of extreme activists which tag onto justified protests..  of course rioting is out of order.

[normal rules]

With respect IDM . I’m not confused on this matter.

Here’s another perspective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FK5bixtGzA

[EasyforDennis]

Has nobody considered that maybe the Millwall fans weren't booing the players for taking a knee but MAYBE they were booing the black Derby player who wasn't taking a knee but was stood with his fist raised as in a black power salute?

[normal rules]

I’ve asked the same question Easy.

Now,  Having viewed the footage and  read many comments on Millwall north stand banter forum I believe it was the whole virtue signalling knee taking that set them off. The fist in the air came as a result of the booing.
And to back this up, Millwall fans apparently engaged with their club well in advance of this game and told them there would be a vocal protest if players took the knee.

[Axholme Lion]

More info has come out about this incident. The Millwall Facebook page makes interesting reading. The vast majority on their support anti racism, but do not support BLM.
Also worth noting is that one of the black players for Derby raised a clenched fist during the taking of the knee. This is believed to signify the “black power “ movement. These are black supremacists. Adds a different dimension to proceedings perhaps?
It’s also clear now that Millwall FC were fully expecting an adverse reaction to taking the knee as their had been supporter engagement prior to the game. A supporter contingent expressly stated they supported anti racism, but not the BLM movement. The club chose to continue.

Booing your own players performing an anti-racist gesture is a funny way of showing you are anti-racist if you ask me. I reckon it's the difference between what you say - and what you do.

It also differs remarkabley from what the club - and players - say. As noted above.

As an ex-veteran yourself you might be interested in how taking a knee has come to be used as an anti-racist gesture - so you can put people right on this.

It's history goes back to Martin Luther King pausing on a civil rights march in Alabama in 1965:

https://globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/

However Colin Kapernick got the idea of reviving it from an ex-US special forces veteran. As that is how they honour their comrades who have fallen in action:

And, you know, people - in my opinions and in my experience, kneeling's never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful. But, of course, that's just my opinion.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-knee?t=1607286437834

Yep, I was aware of this. Quarterback knee I believe it was coined.
It is a shame though that the act of taking the knee has been associated rightly or wrongly with the BLM movement. The movement as I am sure you are aware, is huge and will have a very wide spread of differing opinions and bias within it. Some low key, some middle ground and some downright extreme, violent and worrying.
I suspect those at Millwall, reading, West Ham and Colchester protest against the extremist ideology that definitely exists within this movement.

I whole heartedly support anti racism.  You never heard supporters booing the wearing of armbands or shirt logos for the kick it out campaign.
BLM is rapidly becoming politically motivated. There is news that a Black Lives Matter uk movement has applied for political status to be voted on , possibly next year. Although no one is admitting affiliation to this officially.

The 2000 that were in the Den on Saturday would have been die hard supporters. Sth no doubt. Life long supporters. They have voiced their opinion, rightly or wrongly and are being hammered by the MSM and Millwall fc. Their club will suffer as a result, of this there is no doubt. Sponsors may pull out, players and agents may be reluctant to go their, some current players may want to leave. Youngsters may steer clear of academy teams.
Other supporters at other clubs have booed. No media coverage?
Millwall play at home on Tuesday night. Some of their supporters are already predicting issues. If Romeo does not play they are saying it’s because of the fans. If fans boo again then The players may leave the pitch. Some are advocating not going at all and a boycott.
One thing is certain. The worlds cameras will be watching.

Football at the Den will never be the same again. As one fan put it, Millwall fc has declared civil war on its own core supporter base.

The question remains , was the booing instigated by the knee taking only, or was the raised fist a factor?
I too look forward to Axholme Lions take on this.

Hello folks,

I've been putting a new coat of paint on my tin helmet in anticipation of the bullets heading my way, but here goes. I will give you my honest and truthful opinion on this.
First of all I can say that 99% of Millwall fans are not racist and do support Kick it Out etc, we have no problems with any such ideas. Where I stand in the top tier of the Dockers stand there are many black, brown, Chinese, Asians etc. This is never an issue as the only colour that matters on a match day is navy blue. Many people still colour much of their opinion on us based on the Panorama documentary from1977. That's fine if that's what they want to think it doesn't bother me.
The issue we have with the knee is it's association with Marxist politics, burning the Union Flag and defacing statues of Churchill. your average old school Wall is hard working, working class and patriotic ( all of which appear to be out of fashion at the moment ), also amongst our ranks we have journalists, writers, business owners and all sorts of people. The antics of the BLM are totally in opposition to the views of many of us.
How we would react to the knee when fans returned to the Den has been in discussion on Millwall Online for months. Many of us have e-mailed the club to let them know our feelings on numerous occasions. We have been informed by the club that it was continuing because of the wishes of 'one' player.
There had been talking of turning our backs, singing Rule Britannia and all sorts to show our displeasure at what was happening at 'our' club, so the club knew exactly what was going to happen. Instead of diffusing the situation, they issue an announcement of Friday saying they would continue to take the knee, deliberately inflaming the situation. The spineless management and playing staff decided that knowing the attitude of our support base in never running away from a fight that they would take this action to throw us under the bus to absolve themselves of all blame. As we all know the word Millwall sells newspapers and as we all expected the media were all over us like a rash. The way the club has treat the supporters is an absolute disgrace and many people who have attended for years are vowing never to go again. Well done Millwall. All the club had to do was issue a statement saying they would not be taking the knee and have all the players stood in the centre circle with a kick it out banner which we would have all applauded, but no they wouldn't do that because they are hell bent on the cleansing of the supporter base and turning the club into another Watford or Reading. As for certain players saying we disrespected them, do me a favour! It's not the player's club, it's not the management's club, it's our club and I resent some second rate footballer with his brains in his boots earning £10K a week that i owe him respect. You earn respect. Where's the player's respect for the fans who take a day off work for midweek away games two hundred miles away in February in the freezing cold and can't be bothered to even put in a shift?
The Millwall fans have gone over the top into battle and others will follow in claiming back football from politics. The battle is now with the management, players etc against the supporters for the very soul of the club. I fully expect relegation to follow this season, we will drop like a stone for the reminder of this season and it is all down to the club.

There you go, that's how most of us feel. You may not agree but at least we the fans stood by our principles.

I know i'm going to get slaughtered for my comments but i'd rather you see the truth instead of the crap on most of the MSM.

[normal rules]

Thanks AL for your take . Hit nail on head . I expected nothing less.

As talk radio have put it, the actions at The Den paint a very important picture about how disengaged the politically correct woke elite are from normal people.

Fans go to games to watch football, not to receive a political sermon from people who are getting paid to play football.
Leave politics to politicians . Keep it out of sport.

I fully expect there to be repeats of the booing, probably starting again at the den tomorrow night. There seems to be a very quickly growing support for Millwall from fans in clubs like West Ham, Leeds, Newcastle, Stoke and Villa to name but a few.

There is an online petition to ban taking knee at football which at the last count had 117,000 votes.

And just in case there is any doubt out there about the philosophy around BLM. Only yesterday one of the UK BLM leaders, Sasha Johnson from Oxford, tweeted “ the white man will not be our equal but our slave. History is changing. No justice, no peace. “

[Bentley Bullet]

Black lives have always mattered. Ordinary people are not racist and don't need the BBC and the Guardian backed ideologies such as taking the knee to prove that.

The UK is a very multi-racially accepting country and introducing such rituals can actually be detrimental to the racial harmony that already exists.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fans go to games to watch football, not to receive a political sermon from people who are getting paid to play football.

So, no more minute silence at Remembrance Weekend matches then?

[Axholme Lion]

Fans go to games to watch football, not to receive a political sermon from people who are getting paid to play football.

So, no more minute silence at Remembrance Weekend matches then?

Remembrance is for people who gave their lives fighting for freedom of speech.
Remembrance of men and women of all colours and religions without exception.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's people making a public show of their beliefs and opinions.

You either support that or you don't. Be consistent.

[normal rules]

Rememberance is just that. The act of remembering those before us that paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedoms.

It’s not about a fight for rights, liberation, or justice or equality. And it’s only once year, not every bloody night of the week.

People would soon tire of the last post being played before every football match at every ground up and down the country week in week out. And I speak as a veteran myself.

It’s not lost on me either that we live in a society where some of the woke elite wanted to ban the wearing of poppies on our National Teams shirt, because someone somewhere may have been offended by it.  But that’s freedom of speech for you I suppose.

[Axholme Lion]

It's people making a public show of their beliefs and opinions.

You either support that or you don't. Be consistent.

One is political, one is not.
When I go to work I do not feel the need to make an announcement of my own beliefs every morning to all and sundry, why should I have to be preached to on politics by footballers?
They are the ones causing the problem. If they are using their highly paid job role as a public platform to air their views then it is only right that they accept criticism from the people who pay their wages if they don't agree with them. As I said this could have been avoided by the players standing in the centre circle with a kick it out banner and everyone would have applauded that, but no the club and players are so stupid and ignorant that they would not do that and have gone out of their way to antagonise the supporters. They have started a war and it will get very messy. It is very much the club v the fans now. The club caused this and they need to make amends.

[normal rules]

I wonder if DRFC have considered this. I am aware players are taking the knee still, for how much longer is anyone’s guess.
A kick it out banner unfurl at the first home game where fans are allowed in would be very positive, get the appropriate reaction from the crowd, as it always has, and avoid the inevitable media onslaught if Rovers suffered a “Millwall” scenario.

[drfchound]

Unbelievable that this should be compared to Remembrance Sunday.

[Not Now Kato]

Unbelievable that some people thing taking the knee is wrong.  No one is asking you to do it.  It doesn't get in the way of the game, just as the 'group hug' or the handshaking with players who've already been with each other in the changing room doesn't.  Or perhaps you think the players should just run out of the tunnel, line up and get on with the game?

[MachoMadness]

Unbelievable that this should be compared to Remembrance Sunday.

Unbelievable that people think booing an anti-racism protest is in any way justifiable or acceptable, yet this thread is full of them.

It's exactly the same as someone booing a minute's silence. You can't pick and choose what causes are acceptable in football, calling some virtue signalling while accepting others.

[River Don]

I don't think BLM is anymore associated with Marxist politics, burning of the Union flag or defacing statues of Churchill than Millwall FC is associated with racism, vandalism and football hooliganism.

[EasyforDennis]

Unbelievable that some people thing taking the knee is wrong.  No one is asking you to do it.  It doesn't get in the way of the game, just as the 'group hug' or the handshaking with players who've already been with each other in the changing room doesn't.  Or perhaps you think the players should just run out of the tunnel, line up and get on with the game?

But isn't that what happened in our game on Saturday?

[Axholme Lion]

Unbelievable that some people thing taking the knee is wrong.  No one is asking you to do it.  It doesn't get in the way of the game, just as the 'group hug' or the handshaking with players who've already been with each other in the changing room doesn't.  Or perhaps you think the players should just run out of the tunnel, line up and get on with the game?

They're not paid to give political opinions, they're not bright enough. As far as i'm concerned if they do this against QPR the whole lot of them can leave straight away. The fans have been thrown under the bus because neither the club nor the players have any backbone. I don't care what league we end up in as long as the right thing is done.

[BillyStubbsTears]

How about seeing it as not "giving political opinions"?

How about seeing it as expressing solidarity with a section of the population that has experienced sustained and deep discrimination for decades?

[IDM]

How many times does this need saying.?

The use of “Black Lives matter” as a slogan in support of protests against racism such as taking the knee is NOT the same as the political entity called Black Lives Matter..  taking the knee is therefore not political.

[Axholme Lion]

How about seeing it as not "giving political opinions"?

How about seeing it as expressing solidarity with a section of the population that has experienced sustained and deep discrimination for decades?

Or how about do what they're paid to do and get on with playing football? On current perfomances they need all the practice they can get. How would you feel if one of your employees used every available opportunity to preach the benefits of Brexit to all your customers every time they spoke to them? It would not be acceptable and you would be right to tell them to stop.

[Axholme Lion]

How many times does this need saying.?

The use of “Black Lives matter” as a slogan in support of protests against racism such as taking the knee is NOT the same as the political entity called Black Lives Matter..  taking the knee is therefore not political.

Well maybe they should change the slogan to a non political one that can not be misinterpreted.
Everyone at Wall is agreed we would be happy to applaud the players with a kick it out banner before the match. I don't know how much clearer we can make it to the idiots running the club. They are the cause of this and they deserve everything they get.

[MachoMadness]

The slogan isn't political. The far-right have tried to tie it into politics so it's easier to undermine the movement. It's the same thing they've done for decades. Why should the black civil rights movement change their approach to accommodate fragile white boomers who are already looking for any reason to ignore BLM anyway? Nobody stops talking about green eco-friendly stuff just because we have a Green party. Should Rosa Parks have decided to sit a few seats further back so it didn't upset people like you?

[Axholme Lion]

The slogan isn't political. The far-right have tried to tie it into politics so it's easier to undermine the movement. It's the same thing they've done for decades. Why should the black civil rights movement change their approach to accommodate fragile white boomers who are already looking for any reason to ignore BLM anyway? Nobody stops talking about green eco-friendly stuff just because we have a Green party. Should Rosa Parks have decided to sit a few seats further back so it didn't upset people like you?

Is it too much to ask to be able to go to the match, meet your mates, watch the game and let off a bit of steam without being preached at? I am absolutely sick to death of it everywhere you go, ruining the enjoyment of what little life we are allowed to have.
The club have chucked us under the bus to save themselves and the players.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh, precious! I hadn't realised it was hurting your feelings.

Can't you just, like, ignore it?

[normal rules]

Perhaps a democratic poll on this forum is worthy.

A simple yes,no or not bothered, to the question of “are you happy for the taking of the knee pre football to carry on?”

[MachoMadness]

The slogan isn't political. The far-right have tried to tie it into politics so it's easier to undermine the movement. It's the same thing they've done for decades. Why should the black civil rights movement change their approach to accommodate fragile white boomers who are already looking for any reason to ignore BLM anyway? Nobody stops talking about green eco-friendly stuff just because we have a Green party. Should Rosa Parks have decided to sit a few seats further back so it didn't upset people like you?

Is it too much to ask to be able to go to the match, meet your mates, watch the game and let off a bit of steam without being preached at? I am absolutely sick to death of it everywhere you go, ruining the enjoyment of what little life we are allowed to have.
The club have chucked us under the bus to save themselves and the players.

You're right, decades of systematic oppression, lives being ruined via the justice system, and murder in the name of racism is nothing compared to some middle-class white guy getting incredibly mad at some footballers kneeling for five seconds.

[EasyforDennis]

I think everyone (unless they have been living in a cave) has got the message now. By carrying on there is always the risk (As has been shown on this forum) that more and more people are going to get wound up? 

[rich1471]

is this not just adding fuel to the fire as they are taking the knee because they are playing millwall

Queens Park Rangers boss Mark Warburton says his side will take the knee before Tuesday's league game at Millwall.

QPR had stopped the gesture, in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, earlier this season after director of football Les Ferdinand said its impact had "been diluted".

However, Warburton says the club will "show solidarity" with the cause after some Millwall fans booed players taking a knee at The Den on Saturday.

"It is the right thing to do," he said. from the bbc