Brexit Benefits Log

[SydneyRover]

Yes it does but it also has a wider scope, strength and unity in Europe is a great deterence against Russian agression.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I particularly do not like the gloating/speculation that brexit will lead to further break up of the EU  When consideration of the total lack of conflict between EU members and the horrors of previous decades.

If you look at a couple of the countries that remained neutral purely on an economic basis Sweden and Switzerland their economies have done well.

Of all the benefits the EU has brought, peace in Europe has to be THE main one.
 
When the dissagreements over fishing access became public what did Brexiters call for?
 
"Send in the gunboats"!
 
My case rests.

And NATO has no role in this???

Not really. They are a common defence organisation to respond to external threats. Not internal.

[belton rover]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

NATO didn't prevent The Troubles. It didn't prevent Basque terrorism and the horrific repression of it. It didn't prevent a fascist coup in Portugal. It didn't prevent the overthrow of democracy by fascist military officers in Greece.

Every one of those things happened within living memory in NATO member countries before they joined the EU. It is inconceivable that they would happen in EU member countries.

I am deeply depressed that this was never discussed in 2016, as it is THE greatest success of the EU.

[Ldr]

Ldr.

NATO didn't prevent The Troubles. It didn't prevent Basque terrorism and the horrific repression of it. It didn't prevent a fascist coup in Portugal. It didn't prevent the overthrow of democracy by fascist military officers in Greece.

Every one of those things happened within living memory in NATO member countries before they joined the EU. It is inconceivable that they would happen in EU member countries.

I am deeply depressed that this was never discussed in 2016, as it is THE greatest success of the EU.

I'm pretty sure a great deal of the troubles happened post 1973 (and post 1992 if ppl want to be pedantic) and pressure from the US brought the good Friday agreement to fruition

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

I'm talking about when they started.

[Ldr]

Ldr.

I'm talking about when they started.

Given you can trace it back to the partition and the Irish civil war in the 20s I dont agree at all with you, yes it escalated in the late 60s into a full on campaign but the EU (EEC) didn't have any bearing on it

[belton rover]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

[Not Now Kato]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

[Ldr]

Ldr.

I'm talking about when they started.

Just so we are clear are stating that any of the troubles ANY? Would not have happen had the UK been a member of the then EEC? Just so we are clear

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

My point is that being in NATO did not prevent an armed conflict starting on UK territory.

No armed conflict has EVER started in an EU member country. No EU country has ever had its democracy overthrown in a coup.

[Ldr]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

[Ldr]

Ldr.

My point is that being in NATO did not prevent an armed conflict starting on UK territory.

No armed conflict has EVER started in an EU member country. No EU country has ever had its democracy overthrown in a coup.

My point is the EEC/EU didn't stop it

[belton rover]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

And you believe they all called for gunboats?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

My point is that being in NATO did not prevent an armed conflict starting on UK territory.

No armed conflict has EVER started in an EU member country. No EU country has ever had its democracy overthrown in a coup.

My point is the EEC/EU didn't stop it

The existence of the EU was absolutely instrumental in finding a mechansim that led to peace.

Then look at the other issues I raised. It is utterly inconceivable that a country could experience a military coup d'etat and reamain in the EU. Yet two countries in the mid 20th century were kept in the NATO fold when fascists overthrew their governments.

[Not Now Kato]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

I was simply answering a question LDR, not being antagonistic; but if the cap fits....
 
Seeing as this is the Brexit Benefits thread do you have any?

[Ldr]

Ldr.

My point is that being in NATO did not prevent an armed conflict starting on UK territory.

No armed conflict has EVER started in an EU member country. No EU country has ever had its democracy overthrown in a coup.

My point is the EEC/EU didn't stop it

The existence of the EU was absolutely instrumental in finding a mechansim that led to peace.

Then look at the other issues I raised. It is utterly inconceivable that a country could experience a military coup d'etat and reamain in the EU. Yet two countries in the mid 20th century were kept in the NATO fold when fascists overthrew their governments.

I'm sure you believe what you type, I dont

[Ldr]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

I was simply answering a question LDR, not being antagonistic; but if the cap fits....
 
Seeing as this is the Brexit Benefits thread do you have any?

For me yes, we won't be involved in the inevitable European superstate

[Not Now Kato]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

And you believe they all called for gunboats?

Of course not.  But then, not all former leave voters still think it's a good idea.  Do you?

[Not Now Kato]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

I was simply answering a question LDR, not being antagonistic; but if the cap fits....
 
Seeing as this is the Brexit Benefits thread do you have any?

For me yes, we won't be involved in the inevitable European superstate

And why is that a benefit?

[BillyStubbsTears]

My basic point, which appears to be getting lost as the discussion moves on, is that it is a fundamental aim of the EU to even out the sort of socio-economic disparities between and within countries that are the root cause of civil strife and political instability. That was the founding reason for the EU and it has been spectacularly successful in securing peace and stability, in a continent (including the British  Isles) which historically has been THE most dangerous place on the planet.

I think we take that far too much for granted, and I am deeply suspicious of the motives of those who want to bring the EU down in a heap and go back to an environment of naked competition between nations. That has always ended in catastrophe in Europe in the past.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

And if this hypothetical "European Superstate" had finally come to pass, we could have chosen then to stay out of it. Like we chose not to adopt the Euro.

It's a pretty weak argument to justify Brexit if you don't mind me saying.

[Ldr]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

I was simply answering a question LDR, not being antagonistic; but if the cap fits....
 
Seeing as this is the Brexit Benefits thread do you have any?

For me yes, we won't be involved in the inevitable European superstate

And why is that a benefit?

As I say, it is to me. I have no desire to be a part of it. Therefore I see it as a benefit.

[Ldr]

Ldr.

And if this hypothetical "European Superstate" had finally come to pass, we could have chosen then to stay out of it. Like we chose not to adopt the Euro.

It's a pretty weak argument to justify Brexit if you don't mind me saying.

You're entitled to your opinion

[Not Now Kato]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

I was simply answering a question LDR, not being antagonistic; but if the cap fits....
 
Seeing as this is the Brexit Benefits thread do you have any?

For me yes, we won't be involved in the inevitable European superstate

And why is that a benefit?

As I say, it is to me. I have no desire to be a part of it. Therefore I see it as a benefit.

And if that superstate, (if it ever happens - which I doubt), makes all its people better off while we are worse off do you still see not being part of it a benefit?
 
For something to be a benefit it has to be quantifiable.

[Ldr]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

Remainer - person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

(Well if NNK can be antagonist)

I was simply answering a question LDR, not being antagonistic; but if the cap fits....
 
Seeing as this is the Brexit Benefits thread do you have any?

For me yes, we won't be involved in the inevitable European superstate

And why is that a benefit?

As I say, it is to me. I have no desire to be a part of it. Therefore I see it as a benefit.

And if that superstate, (if it ever happens - which I doubt), makes all its people better off while we are worse off do you still see not being part of it a benefit?
 
For something to be a benefit it has to be quantifiable.

What i see as quantifiable you may not and vice versa

[belton rover]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

And you believe they all called for gunboats?

Of course not.  But then, not all former leave voters still think it's a good idea.  Do you?

But they’re not Brexiteers by your definition, so they are irrelevant to my question.

[EasyforDennis]

Still waiting to hear of a real benefit not a hypothetical benefit.

[Not Now Kato]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

And you believe they all called for gunboats?

Of course not.  But then, not all former leave voters still think it's a good idea.  Do you?

But they’re not Brexiteers by your definition, so they are irrelevant to my question.

I answered your question in the first part of my post. The second part was simply a qualifier.

[Not Now Kato]

Still waiting to hear of a real benefit not a hypothetical benefit.

Indeed.  But as Mark Twain once wrote  "How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again!"  So I guess we'll be waiting a long time.