Brexit Benefits Log

[belton rover]

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

And you believe they all called for gunboats?

Of course not.  But then, not all former leave voters still think it's a good idea.  Do you?

But they’re not Brexiteers by your definition, so they are irrelevant to my question.

I answered your question in the first part of my post. The second

Not. Would you mind explaining your definition of a ‘Brexiteer’?

Brexiter - Someone who voted 'leave' and, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, still believes it's good for the people in this country and refuses to admit they were conned.
 

And you believe they all called for gunboats?

Of course not.  But then, not all former leave voters still think it's a good idea.  Do you?

But they’re not Brexiteers by your definition, so they are irrelevant to my question.

I answered your question in the first part of my post. The second part was simply a qualifier.

But you haven’t at all.

You said Brexiteers are people who still think leaving the EU is a good idea.
You also said that Brexiteers called for gunboats.

I’m simply asking if you think that anyone who still thinks Brexit is a good thing called for gunboats?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, out in the real world...

https://mobile.twitter.com/BylineTV/status/1353388644451704833

[belton rover]

Real world?

[selby]

  Medical Tourists are having a bad time of it saving the British tax payer millions

[BillyStubbsTears]

The "real world" where people are dealing with the effects of Brexit. Not the niche one in here where people focus on arguments about arguing, while not addressing substantive points.

[belton rover]

I’m not sure if you are including my discussion with Not as not being in the real world. If you are not, then I apologise in advance.

But I think that me questioning the fact that a prominent remainer thinks that ‘Brexiteers’ (which, apparently is anyone who still says that Brexit is a good thing) want to see ‘gunboats’ on the seas is a very substantive point.

That kind of unfounded, generalised insinuation is absolutely an effect of Brexit.

[wilts rover]

  Medical Tourists are having a bad time of it saving the British tax payer millions

Errr we agreed a reciprocal health care arrangment with the EU, EU citizens get free access to the NHS when in the UK:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/brexit-end-of-transition-period-impact-health-care-system

unless you meant numbers have gone down due to Covid or from outside the EU - in which case it's the wrong thread...

[Colin C No.3]

Pakistan isn't in the EU.

[EasyforDennis]

Pakistan isn't in the EU.

I cant imagine there are many people coming from Pakistan to get health treatment in the UK

[Not Now Kato]

In October 2016, David Davis, the then Brexit secretary, told the House of Commons that “there will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides”.
 
Yorkshire Bylines have been keeping a list of all the 'considerable upsides' and the 'no downsides'.  It makes for interesting reading.
 
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/the-davis-downside-dossier/
 
Oh, and there's also a link to all the 'considerable upsides' that the Government have claimed which have subsequently turned out to be lies myths.
 
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/brexit-benefit-myths/
 

[Colin C No.3]

Pakistan isn't in the EU.

I cant imagine there are many people coming from Pakistan to get health treatment in the UK

Before we both took early retirement, my wife worked in the NHS (hospitals) & I was based with an Anti-Smuggling Team in Leeds with HM Revenue & Customs (who later, much custom officers chagrin, morphed into UK Border Force).

We had two flights a week coming into Leeds Bradford Airport from Islamabad. It would normally take us 2 hours to turn around a flight of 250 passengers coming from a destination 'of interest to Customs' (not every passenger, but those 'identified' as targets & those who may fit certain profiling criteria would be stopped & their bags searched), but the Islamabad flight would take 5-6 hours due to the quantity of luggage per passenger, the amount of contraband found on those flights & the difficulties in the language barrier. Many of the Pakistani passengers, even those holding British Passports, would 'claim' not to speak any English despite having lived in the UK for 10 or 20 years. The amount of cigarettes passengers travelling from a non EU country was 1 carton (200 cigarettes). It wasn't unusual to find 10, 20 sometimes full suitcases holding 50 times that amount. Mostly the brand was John Player Special, a brand no longer sold in the UK, which could be purchased in Pakistan at £3.50 a carton. These would then find their way onto the black market selling at three or four times the price they were purchased for. That's cigarettes with no UK Duty payed on them so evading taxes that The Exchequer would be able to use to build & staff hospitals & schools.

We would also find passengers with Pakistani passports issued with a Visitors Visa having NHS prescription drugs inside their baggage. Drugs for diabetes, heart problems along with Class B drugs such as Diazepam, given to them by "My brother, sister, cousin..." etc.

My wife would tell me of passengers from Asia & America who would 'present' themselves into hospital care within days of arriving in the UK.

So Dennis, I hope you can now see how the NHS was abused on a regular basis & how this pandemic has highlighted that since the curtailment of air travel.

If you go on to the NHS website you'll find that this abuse amounted to some £1.8 billion per year.

Let's hope that once we are at the 'other side' of this terrible virus & Brexit is at last nigh on done, we can protect our Borders a little more robustly than before.
 



 

[EasyforDennis]

Still not sure how anything would change with flights from Islamabad. It will still take just as long to process the passengers and there is no reason why those same people who present themselves at hospitals will disappear?

[Colin C No.3]

Still not sure how anything would change with flights from Islamabad. It will still take just as long to process the passengers and there is no reason why those same people who present themselves at hospitals will disappear?

It would change by increasing the number of UK Border Force Officers Dennis.

When I retired in 2013, Customs & Immigration staff had started to undergo 'dual training'. In theory after training, each would be able to do the others job. I say in theory because it never quite panned out that way, with Immigration Officers reluctant to undergo the necessary training required to be able to, (as a Law Enforcement Officer with the powers of arrest as Customs Officers have), apply handcuffs to a non compliant person when arrested. So we had some Officers who were dual trained (100% of Customs were as opposed to 10% of Immigration) but a majority who weren't. As the 'powers at be' decided that the priority was to ensure passengers were processed quickly in order that flights were not held on the tarmac due to long queues in the airport terminals, 99% of Customs work 'dropped off'. We became in effect 'Queue Busters', with the resulting dramatic drop in the number of seizures of the import of illicit tobacco, counterfeit goods, drugs & weapons.

In 2012 there were 22 Immigration Officers & 24 Customs Officers processing 2.5 million passengers a year. In 2019 (now UK Border Force was 'one entity', no more separation of Immigration & Customs work), there were in total 22 UK Border Force Officers now dealing with 4 million passengers a year. Those 22 Officers only cover ex Immigration work i.e., swiping passports. With no 'Customs' to stop & open up baggage, the Islamabad flight now clears in one to one & a half hours.

Unless the government deploys more staff to LBA (& I know the priority is to recruit more NHS nurses & doctors & quite right too) the airport is & will remain a magnet for smugglers, be that tobacco, drugs or people traffickers.

Apologies for the rant, but when any politician talks about "Securing our Borders" my blood boils.

[River Don]

It's beginning to look like a benefit of Brexit, is that you'll get your Covid vaccination faster, than if the UK had remained in the EUs collective effort.

[drfchound]

Yep, after they made it difficult for us as we were leaving the boot might be on the other foot now, so to speak.

[selby]

  The number of British people living in Poland is way below the number of Poles living in Britain, they claimed more from us than we did for them for medical expenses, Spain and France make millions out of us.
  With Covid stopping travel between the countries  the figures are going to show the real extent of the cost to our NHS, and might wake some one up to the fact it wants stopping period.
  The longer the travel ban is extended in a lot of cases so much the better, I feel sorry for the people employed in the travel industry but it is a must if we are to hold the numbers down at all the holiday travel and any unnecessary travel abroad should be curtailed throughout this year.

[SydneyRover]

It would be good if you can post the data selby.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It would be good if you can post the data selby.

It's fairly easy to find.  But the link below advises it.  Over 100 times more Poles in Britain than the other way around.

http://streetwise.pl/2019/06/04/how-many-brits-live-in-poland-you-might-be-surprised/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Office%20for,men%20and%201.3%20thousand%20women.

[SydneyRover]

thanks bfyp I thought there maybe more showing how many people across all countries where britons travel and live rather than a couple of paras without links and supporting data from a osurce I've never heard of.

[Hounslowrover]

No indication of the reasons they are in Poland, many more men than women, perhaps they’re working. Also no figures about how many Poles are on benefits here, or how many are making a more positive contribution through work and taxes.  When in France, I was able to use their health system and claim the money back, a reciprocal arrangement within the EU, therefore EU citizens using the NHS has to be put in that context. 

[drfchound]

About four years ago someone told me that Polish people working in the UK could claim child benefit for their children even if they (the children) were still living in Poland.
I don’t know if it is true, just what I was told.
By the way, I have a few Polish friends and have nothing against them being here.

[SydneyRover]

Don't get sucked into this shit from selby it over 3 years old and selby likes to thriw grenades cos he hasn't got anything else, except of course a personal attention deficit disorder.

[selby]

https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/
  Eyes tight shut pity about the gob Syd.

[wilts rover]

About four years ago someone told me that Polish people working in the UK could claim child benefit for their children even if they (the children) were still living in Poland.
I don’t know if it is true, just what I was told.
By the way, I have a few Polish friends and have nothing against them being here.

That's correct. Any of them still here and registered under the EU Settlement Scheme still can:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/benefits-and-pensions-for-eea-and-swiss-citizens-in-the-uk

So you can rule that out as a benefit of Brexit then.

[selby]

   It's quite alright for things to carry on then is it? I wonder why? they always said a good socialist is ok while someone else's money runs out.
   Add that to the payments we paid to be members you want to still be paying.  I bet Spain wish they had tourists in hospitals now from the UK, they would be throwing their own out on the streets for the cash.

[Not Now Kato]

   It's quite alright for things to carry on then is it? I wonder why? they always said a good socialist is ok while someone else's money runs out.
   Add that to the payments we paid to be members you want to still be paying.  I bet Spain wish they had tourists in hospitals now from the UK, they would be throwing their own out on the streets for the cash.

[SydneyRover]

https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/
  Eyes tight shut pity about the gob Syd.

it's from 2018 selby, that's a couple of seasons ago and farage is putting a new team together.

[selby]

  I know Syd, i'm in the team playing right wing.

[SydneyRover]

It's a shame your team manager won't acknowledge the devastation he's wrought on the country with death and destruction 100,000 + friends and relatives with a debt spiralling upwards into the trillions that would dwarf any perceived losses you appear to claim by the NHS. He reminds me of Ken Richardson and deserves the same fate.

[selby]

  Don't be bitter Syd, just try and get on the winning side now and again, and stop being such a bad loser.