Brexit Benefits Log

[belton rover]

I’ve just asked the same question, Filo.
Let’s wait for his honest answer.

[Filo]

I’ve just asked the same question, Filo.
Let’s wait for his honest answer.

Will you only deem it honest if it agrees with your accusation?

[belton rover]

Of course not, but I would be curious as to why the opening post contained a link to a story about the negative result of Brexit. Followed by many more negatives, if the title was genuine and not ironic.

I’m not sure why you’d ask that.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

For the record BFYP, the people predicting serious problems for the Nissan plant in the event of No Deal were the Nissan management.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-54986195

But yes, this is excellent news. Not exactly sure it is a net positive over the situation there would have been without Brexit, but it is certainly an avoidance of a potential major negative.

Absolutely in a no deal case which didn't happen. We were constantly told even a deal was end of the world. It clearly is not.

[belton rover]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

Well I’d like to hear what NNK has to say about your accusation, I’m not sure why you have to make assertions like you do, it seems you have lost the target of most of your arguments and so have just picked on another target now

Filo, I’m really not sure what your motives are here.
I responded to a comment by Easy with my direct opinion about Easy’s statement.

No more, no less.

[Filo]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

Well I’d like to hear what NNK has to say about your accusation, I’m not sure why you have to make assertions like you do, it seems you have lost the target of most of your arguments and so have just picked on another target now

Filo, I’m really not sure what your motives are here.
I responded to a comment by Easy with my direct opinion about Easy’s statement.

No more, no less.

No motives, nothing at all, just a question about your accusation before you checked with NNK, to establish if your accusation is correct or not

[belton rover]

Why do you call it an accusation?
I don’t think this thread was ever about the benefits of Brexit. That’s my opinion.
Accusation is quite an aggressive term to use. I haven’t accused anybody of anything.
Why the hostility?

[belton rover]

Perhaps we should all take stock and read what this fellow has to say:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/british-people-now-define-themselves-as-leavers-or-remainers-so-what-happens-after-brexit-130634

[selby]

  Cut Kato in half and you would find the EU flag inside, and his favourite tune is Ode to Joy  which is a dirge of a tune.
  Nissan are shutting their manufacturing facility in Spain and turning it into a storage facility.

[wilts rover]

The Chief Exec of HMRC has said the UK Gov has given orders to prioritize the flow of goods into the UK over compliance with customs regs. As a consequence, the country is set to lose £800m in customs duty and VAT in 2021.

https://trans.info/en/hmrc-chief-loosening-of-customs-checks-on-trucks-to-cost-uk-800m-in-2021-219017

[Glyn_Wigley]

The Chief Exec of HMRC has said the UK Gov has given orders to prioritize the flow of goods into the UK over compliance with customs regs. As a consequence, the country is set to lose £800m in customs duty and VAT in 2021.

https://trans.info/en/hmrc-chief-loosening-of-customs-checks-on-trucks-to-cost-uk-800m-in-2021-219017

And that's not considering the deluge of prohibited and restricted goods that will flow through unhindered.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the record BFYP, the people predicting serious problems for the Nissan plant in the event of No Deal were the Nissan management.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-54986195

But yes, this is excellent news. Not exactly sure it is a net positive over the situation there would have been without Brexit, but it is certainly an avoidance of a potential major negative.

Absolutely in a no deal case which didn't happen. We were constantly told even a deal was end of the world. It clearly is not.

BFYP.

No. No-one said a deal was the end of the world. You're hugely overstating the criticism. What WAS said was that there was no mechanism by which  Brexit with an FTA made the UK economy as a whole stronger than no Brexit. The difference will compound over the years.

Leaving with NO deal was the far bigger danger. That WOULD have been a catastrophe.

[EasyforDennis]

Still waiting for a positive benefit for anyone and we are 3 pages in.

Not really what the thread was created for though, despite the title, was it, Easy?

Wasn't it? I would like to know as I asked earlier. I have no idea what NNK's motivation was.

[belton rover]

Still waiting for a positive benefit for anyone and we are 3 pages in.

Not really what the thread was created for though, despite the title, was it, Easy?

Wasn't it? I would like to know as I asked earlier. I have no idea what NNK's motivation was.

Okay. See previous posts, if you’re interested.

[SydneyRover]

  Cut Kato in half and you would find the EU flag inside, and his favourite tune is Ode to Joy  which is a dirge of a tune.
  Nissan are shutting their manufacturing facility in Spain and turning it into a storage facility.

This only exposes yourself as a little britisher selby, embracing the EU the countries and people within made Britain stronger.

[Not Now Kato]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

[belton rover]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

[SydneyRover]

Another benefit that has comes to light is that businesses struggling with the paperwork and extra costs are being advised by the Dept of International Trade to set up offices in the EU to overcome this setback, the positives are that British businesses not fully across the different customs of  the Europeans in the way that they do business will learn and grow albeit in Europe. Stronger ties with Europe what's not to like.

[EasyforDennis]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

I think you might be suffering from paranoia. None of this is personal. The opening post simply asked what benefits we have gained from Brexit. I would have thought it was an easy enough question to answer.

[wilts rover]

Not exactly in line with the thread title but I thought this was interesting:

On joining the EU, Ireland was 22nd by GDP per capita. Today, it is 3rd.

Before the Brexit referendum, the UK was 6th by GDP per capita, today it is 22nd.

(OECD figures)

https://twitter.com/Eyeswideopen69/status/1353078945952874496

[belton rover]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

I think you might be suffering from paranoia. None of this is personal. The opening post simply asked what benefits we have gained from Brexit. I would have thought it was an easy enough question to answer.

Thanks for the diagnosis, Easy. You’re wasted on here.

[EasyforDennis]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

I think you might be suffering from paranoia. None of this is personal. The opening post simply asked what benefits we have gained from Brexit. I would have thought it was an easy enough question to answer.

Thanks for the diagnosis, Easy. You’re wasted on here.

You're welcome. Any time.

[Not Now Kato]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

Yes, I read it.  Sadly, the writer misses a few rather important points, but in fairness to him he was guessing before he actually knew the substance of the trade deal Johnson negotiated.
 
He talks about a free trade deal without knowing the details of the trade deal we negotiated and fails to address the reality that a 'free trade deal' doesn't mean 'free trade'.  There are lots of examples and I link to ne below
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
 
And here's the Institute for Governments precise of the actual deal and what it means in reality - which is far from the promised sunlit uplands and shiny unicorns; though again, in fairness, there are a few positives contained in it.
 
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/future-relationship-trade-deal
 
Meanwhile, the Government appear to be advising SME's to open offices in EU countries to avoid the hassle and costs associated with the 'free' trade deal it negotiated with the EU - with the associated loss of jobs in the UK.  You couldn't make it up!
 
I sincerely hope that the Government fairs better in their upcoming Financial & Services Trade negotiations as these form the bulk of contributions to our economy; and I genuinely hope that this is where the sunlit uplands and unicorns will come from, I mean, why wouldn't they?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's a benefit. The Govt appears to have moved from  being dominated by ideologically-driven policies to enabling sensible, practical advice.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55786974

Let's hope it is a sign of things to come.

[belton rover]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

Yes, I read it.  Sadly, the writer misses a few rather important points, but in fairness to him he was guessing before he actually knew the substance of the trade deal Johnson negotiated.
 
He talks about a free trade deal without knowing the details of the trade deal we negotiated and fails to address the reality that a 'free trade deal' doesn't mean 'free trade'.  There are lots of examples and I link to ne below
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
 
And here's the Institute for Governments precise of the actual deal and what it means in reality - which is far from the promised sunlit uplands and shiny unicorns; though again, in fairness, there are a few positives contained in it.
 
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/future-relationship-trade-deal
 
Meanwhile, the Government appear to be advising SME's to open offices in EU countries to avoid the hassle and costs associated with the 'free' trade deal it negotiated with the EU - with the associated loss of jobs in the UK.  You couldn't make it up!
 
I sincerely hope that the Government fairs better in their upcoming Financial & Services Trade negotiations as these form the bulk of contributions to our economy; and I genuinely hope that this is where the sunlit uplands and unicorns will come from, I mean, why wouldn't they?

I meant his philosophy regarding the future. We are becoming more divided as a nation with every major concern that comes our way. There is little middle ground any more and Brexit is a prime example of that.
Both sides of the stay or leave campaign behaved appallingly, both lied, both treated the general public with disdain. Throughout the campaign I swayed from on side to the next. I finally opted leave with my pencil literally hovering over both choices in the voting booth. I then spent months regretting my choice and wishing for a re-vote. I stopped regretting my decision after listening to the arrogance of EU leaders and some of the pro remain voices over here.
It’s done. We, as a country have no choice but to deal with it. Preferably ‘all in it together’.

As Timothy Oliver says:

‘ Failure to erode the divide between Leave and Remain will ensure UK politics remains deeply fractious for some time to come.’

[Not Now Kato]

Really, Filo? You’ve only got to read the creator’s posts within the thread to see they want the opposite of ‘Brexit Benefits’ to be posted, as do the  vast majority of other posts on the thread.

The title is clearly ironic (in my opinion, of course).

NNK. Were you being ironic? Or did you genuinely want this thread to contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits, as the title suggests?

I created the thread to provide the opportunity for people to post some positive benefits of Brexit now that we've left, though I did include a rather tongue in cheek link to one of the new deals the Government were trying to negotiate that had failed, though had it succeeded then it would actually have been a better deal than we had via the EU. Without looking back I believe I also pointed to this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/01/17/the-brexit-deal-locks-the-uk-into-continued-strasbourg-human-rights-court-membership/ which I think is a positive as it now locks us into something that is of benefit to everyone in the UK, though I think an awful lot of leave voters will disappointed by it.
 
Do I believe there will be any major benefits for our leaving? No.  But the opportunity is here for people to post any that they do find.
 
Do I think it should contain nothing but examples of Brexit benefits?  Well, it would be great if it did - do you have any?

Thanks, Not.
My mistake clearly. It wasn’t an ironic title, just a very misleading one.

For the record, I don’t have any issues with any of the negative Brexit comments in fact I agree with the majority of them. Unfortunately, people are seemingly automatically assuming I have taken that stance. I don’t know what benefits there will be in time, I have none to offer at this moment. It’s even being suggested that you (or Easy, I’m not entirely sure) may be my new ‘target’, whatever that means.

I simply suggested that the title and the content, from the very first post, are a direct conflict of expectation for the thread.

Perhaps a truer reflection of the title would have been ‘A Brexit Pros and Cons Log’.


I have nothing against the title you chose BTW, just an observation I thought I’d share. Think of it what you will.

I posted a link earlier. If you haven’t read it yet, then please do. That will give you an idea of where I stand on Brexit.

Yes, I read it.  Sadly, the writer misses a few rather important points, but in fairness to him he was guessing before he actually knew the substance of the trade deal Johnson negotiated.
 
He talks about a free trade deal without knowing the details of the trade deal we negotiated and fails to address the reality that a 'free trade deal' doesn't mean 'free trade'.  There are lots of examples and I link to ne below
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
 
And here's the Institute for Governments precise of the actual deal and what it means in reality - which is far from the promised sunlit uplands and shiny unicorns; though again, in fairness, there are a few positives contained in it.
 
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/future-relationship-trade-deal
 
Meanwhile, the Government appear to be advising SME's to open offices in EU countries to avoid the hassle and costs associated with the 'free' trade deal it negotiated with the EU - with the associated loss of jobs in the UK.  You couldn't make it up!
 
I sincerely hope that the Government fairs better in their upcoming Financial & Services Trade negotiations as these form the bulk of contributions to our economy; and I genuinely hope that this is where the sunlit uplands and unicorns will come from, I mean, why wouldn't they?

I meant his philosophy regarding the future. We are becoming more divided as a nation with every major concern that comes our way. There is little middle ground any more and Brexit is a prime example of that.
Both sides of the stay or leave campaign behaved appallingly, both lied, both treated the general public with disdain. Throughout the campaign I swayed from on side to the next. I finally opted leave with my pencil literally hovering over both choices in the voting booth. I then spent months regretting my choice and wishing for a re-vote. I stopped regretting my decision after listening to the arrogance of EU leaders and some of the pro remain voices over here.
It’s done. We, as a country have no choice but to deal with it. Preferably ‘all in it together’.

As Timothy Oliver says:

‘ Failure to erode the divide between Leave and Remain will ensure UK politics remains deeply fractious for some time to come.’

And therein lies the problem. Whilst ever the outcome of Brexit means that I and my family are worse off, and the oportunities for my grandchildren are less than they were whilst we were in the EU, I can see no way in which the divide will be eroded.
 
People who voted leave should now own the problems they created and propose ways that will make me and my family at least as well off as we were before the referendum, and that will restore the opportunities my grandchildren would have enjoyed had we remained.
 
It's no good saying we are where we are get on with it in the hope that the divide will somehow be eroded, leavers should be working damned hard with concrete proposals to make this work for the better!
 
They can make a start by posting here the benefits of leaving as they materialise.
 

[BillyStubbsTears]

NNK

There is a similar argument going on in the USA at the moment. The Republican party which enabled, supported and protected a criminal in the White House, a criminal who tried to undermine the very systems of American Democracy, is now saying "Let's work together going forwards". But that cannot and should not happen unless they face up to owning the situation that they created.

Bothsidesism is a serious problem at the moment. It sounds like a serious, mature, balanced approach to say "there is good and bad on both sides" but it is actually an easy cop out that avoids addressing the real questions. Taken to its extreme, it leads to the "Shape of the Earth: Opinions Differ" attitude. You have to consider the arguments of the two sides on their merits.

In the case of Brexit, one side said Brexit would lead to a weakening of the UK as an international force and a long term and serious weakening of our economy. The other side said it would open up great opportunities for us to grow stronger as a nation.

Both sides cannot be right, by definition. If we simply ignore that situation, it means that the people who made those arguments cannot be held responsible for them. In which case, how do we sensibly decide who to trust in future?

Personally, I strongly believe that Brexit is a serious mistake that will weaken us for years to come. But tomorrow, I will be in a 3 hour meeting with a potential customer from the USA, trying to secure a (for my company) major contract for the next five years. Doing my little bit to make the future stronger. You can both do your damnedest to try to improve the future, while pointing out the consequences for the country of previous political decisions. In fact, I'd say we all have a duty to do that.

Saying, "that's done: both sides were as bad as each other and we are where we are so let's put it behind us and move on" is no way to make us stronger in future. If people who wanted Brexit don't like having the net consequences of Brexit set out in front of them, that is no reason not to set those consequences out.

As you say, there is an opportunity (I'd say, a duty) for us to set out ALL the effects of Brexit. Only then can we properly assess whether it was a sensible decision or not.

[SydneyRover]

I particularly do not like the gloating/speculation that brexit will lead to further break up of the EU  When consideration of the total lack of conflict between EU members and the horrors of previous decades.

If you look at a couple of the countries that remained neutral purely on an economic basis Sweden and Switzerland their economies have done well.

[Not Now Kato]

I particularly do not like the gloating/speculation that brexit will lead to further break up of the EU  When consideration of the total lack of conflict between EU members and the horrors of previous decades.

If you look at a couple of the countries that remained neutral purely on an economic basis Sweden and Switzerland their economies have done well.

Of all the benefits the EU has brought, peace in Europe has to be THE main one.
 
When the dissagreements over fishing access became public what did Brexiters call for?
 
"Send in the gunboats"!
 
My case rests.

[Ldr]

I particularly do not like the gloating/speculation that brexit will lead to further break up of the EU  When consideration of the total lack of conflict between EU members and the horrors of previous decades.

If you look at a couple of the countries that remained neutral purely on an economic basis Sweden and Switzerland their economies have done well.

Of all the benefits the EU has brought, peace in Europe has to be THE main one.
 
When the dissagreements over fishing access became public what did Brexiters call for?
 
"Send in the gunboats"!
 
My case rests.

And NATO has no role in this???