Another Government Minister pops up ....

[Donnywolf]

... on the morning newsround

Step up Michelle Donerlan Minister for Universities. My Bingo Card is now only 28 short of the 110 ish that MIGHT be able to "do the rounds"

Seriously though - what can people like this tell us to assure or reassure us about the fight with the virus. They are NOT in the Cabinet and so are not (well dont seem to be) privy to what is going in and on right now

They try to praise the Governement - Universities getting 50 million says the interviewer - ah yes on top of the 21 million we already gave them plus it has to be spent by April the 1 st so masses of money to help the Studemts and put money in their pockets

Then they try to defend the Government - and usually make a poor / extremely poor effort of doing it and they seem to know nothing other than to get in "unprecedented pandemic" and "ever changing situation" This one failed to get in "hands face space" so maybe retraining needed ?

OK the 14 Cabinet Members will be busy - I get that but surely they should be doing this in rotation not leaving it to political lightweights ? This is what led to the ban on GMB when P Morgan said several times that Helen Whateley (Minister for Care) knew nothing and was totally incompetent after which Cummings (I am presuming) pulled the plug and left her and her oppos to go on BBC where they get an easier "ride" or to be more accurate seemed to do before I stopped watching BBC

[tyke1962]

Starmer seems to be getting pelters in the media and amongst party members for not opposing the government strong enough .

Difficult situation in all fairness with parliament socially distanced and done remotely and with pandemic he's got to play it right without looking to score political points on the back of it .

He had to vote with the government on brexit , he'd no choice in the matter despite what his personal feelings were .

I'd have liked to see him attack the government on these contracts that have been handed out to people who donate to the tory party and with connections to them far more robustly than I've seen or read and that's other shadow ministers in the Labour party too .

This is the kind of thing Labour should be hammering the Tories on , prospering financially on the back of a deadly pandemic whilst thousands are going under has plenty of meat on the bones no matter your political allegiance .

Of course the best route to power is of course having policies that the electorate like and will vote for , it's as simple as that .

Massive opportunity for Labour to roll out a vote grabbing programme post brexit and pandemic , an almost unprecedented time .

A programme with vision and radical that appeals to the electorate but I have to say I've yet to be convinced he's a politician that's cut from that cloth , a bit safe is my impression when we need someone with some big balls .

We'll see .

[Bentley Bullet]

Maybe he should start with a programme that appeals to the Labour party.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's a cynical take.

Oppositions never win Elections. Governments lose them.

The only time there is a change of Govt is when a Govt is seen to have lost its way AND the Opposition looks credible and potentially Govt material.

It's not about Oppositions setting out an agenda that gets millions marching behind them. It's about Oppositions looking like potential Governments, and waiting for the Govt's popularity to fall.

Over the next year, the consequences of how badly we have handled the epidemic will come into sharp focus. The predictions are that there will be 2 million unemployed by the end of the year and that will stay high for a good while. That is going to hit living standards for all of us. No Govt ever presides over that sort of level of economic hit without taking a big hit to its popularity.

The cynic in me says Starmer knows this and he's playing a long game. Waiting for the Govt to sink on its own without him being the one to rain down torpedoes on them. That is why he is carefully picking his points to criticise the Govt on, and not going all in with a mass attack.

Might be wrong, but from people I speak with who haven't voted Labour for 20 years and who Labour need to win to have a chance in 2024, it appears to be working. I'd expect Labour to slowly rise above the Tories over the next two years as the scale of the economic mess comes into focus.

[tyke1962]

Here's a cynical take.

Oppositions never win Elections. Governments lose them.

The only time there is a change of Govt is when a Govt is seen to have lost its way AND the Opposition looks credible and potentially Govt material.

It's not about Oppositions setting out an agenda that gets millions marching behind them. It's about Oppositions looking like potential Governments, and waiting for the Govt's popularity to fall.

Over the next year, the consequences of how badly we have handled the epidemic will come into sharp focus. The predictions are that there will be 2 million unemployed by the end of the year and that will stay high for a good while. That is going to hit living standards for all of us. No Govt ever presides over that sort of level of economic hit without taking a big hit to its popularity.

The cynic in me says Starmer knows this and he's playing a long game. Waiting for the Govt to sink on its own without him being the one to rain down torpedoes on them. That is why he is carefully picking his points to criticise the Govt on, and not going all in with a mass attack.

Might be wrong, but from people I speak with who haven't voted Labour for 20 years and who Labour need to win to have a chance in 2024, it appears to be working. I'd expect Labour to slowly rise above the Tories over the next two years as the scale of the economic mess comes into focus.

Agree to a certain extent Billy but in the UK you are facing off against the most successful party in the world when it comes to winning elections .

Even with Thatcher gone and millions on the scrap heap Major still won in 92 .

Just my opinion but you need to catch a huge wave for Labour to win with a majority and just sitting back and letting the Tories fall on their sword doesn't always work here .

We had millions on the dole in the 80's and Thatcher pyssed it every time .

The economic conditions likely to bite are ripe for a visionary programme and the think tanks need to get busy , very busy .

Because we aren't the Tories isn't good enough in my opinion .

[tyke1962]

Maybe he should start with a programme that appeals to the Labour party.

Ain't that the truth , some of the people in the party I despise nearly as much as the tories and that's saying summat .

It would make a refreshing change on election day for me personally to be able to vote for Labour rather than vote against a Conservative government .

We live in hope .

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I keep saying Tyke, it's about compromise. If you want Labour to give you just precisely what you personally want, there will never be another Labour Govrnment.

That's the simple truth. There isn't anything remotely close to a majority in the country who want the nationalist, statist approach that you personally want.

So yeah, you have to hold your nose and vote for something that you don't fully agree with but that is a significant improvement on the alternative. That is what politics in this country will always be like, until we get rid of the ridiculous electoral system and allow our major parties to fragment into the sub-parties that they really are without destroying their electoral chances.

[tyke1962]

As I keep saying Tyke, it's about compromise. If you want Labour to give you just precisely what you personally want, there will never be another Labour Govrnment.

That's the simple truth. There isn't anything remotely close to a majority in the country who want the nationalist, statist approach that you personally want.

So yeah, you have to hold your nose and vote for something that you don't fully agree with but that is a significant improvement on the alternative. That is what politics in this country will always be like, until we get rid of the ridiculous electoral system and allow our major parties to fragment into the sub-parties that they really are without destroying their electoral chances.

Aye the former red wall seem to be the ones who have had to do most of the compromising until they'd had enough of it so I wouldn't bank on that Billy .

Seems pretty clear post pandemic the smart play is to keep the home fires burning first and foremost but that's just my opinion .

[selby]

  Some of us did compromise and held our noses for a lot of years, it gets a bit boring after so long. and you get fed up of youngsters saying that what you used to believe in is old hat and no longer viable while watching the spivs, shysters, and college kids who see politics as a good number as a life style take over.

[tyke1962]

  Some of us did compromise and held our noses for a lot of years, it gets a bit boring after so long. and you get fed up of youngsters saying that what you used to believe in is old hat and no longer viable while watching the spivs, shysters, and college kids who see politics as a good number as a life style take over.

Remarkable how they take to the streets and pull statues down of imperialists from way back god knows when and then go and clock on for work on a ZHC .

That's not generalisation of younger people by the way just something that I found ironic at the time .

[wilts rover]

As I keep saying Tyke, it's about compromise. If you want Labour to give you just precisely what you personally want, there will never be another Labour Govrnment.

That's the simple truth. There isn't anything remotely close to a majority in the country who want the nationalist, statist approach that you personally want.

So yeah, you have to hold your nose and vote for something that you don't fully agree with but that is a significant improvement on the alternative. That is what politics in this country will always be like, until we get rid of the ridiculous electoral system and allow our major parties to fragment into the sub-parties that they really are without destroying their electoral chances.

There is a lot of talk about electoral reform and whether or not Labour should push for it and form a coalition.

I reckon that what happens in Scotland in the next four years might have a big bearing on that.

[tyke1962]

As I keep saying Tyke, it's about compromise. If you want Labour to give you just precisely what you personally want, there will never be another Labour Govrnment.

That's the simple truth. There isn't anything remotely close to a majority in the country who want the nationalist, statist approach that you personally want.

So yeah, you have to hold your nose and vote for something that you don't fully agree with but that is a significant improvement on the alternative. That is what politics in this country will always be like, until we get rid of the ridiculous electoral system and allow our major parties to fragment into the sub-parties that they really are without destroying their electoral chances.

There is a lot of talk about electoral reform and whether or not Labour should push for it and form a coalition.

I reckon that what happens in Scotland in the next four years might have a big bearing on that.

I sincerely hope you aren't suggesting a coalition with Jimmy Krankies mob Wilts .

I've no problem with Scotland wanting independence at all but that women is utterly barking mad , absolute train crash of a politician .

[scawsby steve]

As I keep saying Tyke, it's about compromise. If you want Labour to give you just precisely what you personally want, there will never be another Labour Govrnment.

That's the simple truth. There isn't anything remotely close to a majority in the country who want the nationalist, statist approach that you personally want.

So yeah, you have to hold your nose and vote for something that you don't fully agree with but that is a significant improvement on the alternative. That is what politics in this country will always be like, until we get rid of the ridiculous electoral system and allow our major parties to fragment into the sub-parties that they really are without destroying their electoral chances.

There is a lot of talk about electoral reform and whether or not Labour should push for it and form a coalition.

I reckon that what happens in Scotland in the next four years might have a big bearing on that.

I sincerely hope you aren't suggesting a coalition with Jimmy Krankies mob Wilts .

I've no problem with Scotland wanting independence at all but that women is utterly barking mad , absolute train crash of a politician .

Dead right, Tyke. What is it with female Scottish politicians? Jo Swinson, Ruth Davidson, Nicola Sturgeon; all as mad as March hares.

[tyke1962]

There's a school of thought doing the rounds which isn't my opinion but I'm just putting it out there and that Starmer is unlikely to be a visionary leader because he's an advocate of the EU with its cosy consensus culture .

As we all know the Tories exist in modern times just to protect what was achieved under Thatcher in the 80's and have very little to say since .

Whilst Corbyn was hmmm Corbyn it did produce some radical thinking and a vision .

Maybe Starmer doesn't have any ideas because he's never needed to have them .

Just a thought .

[BillyStubbsTears]

I really struggle to get this "radical thinking" that Corbyn was supposed to have brought.

The economics of Labour's 2017 manifesto which went down very well on the doorstep were nigh on identical to that of Milliband and Balls in 2015. But apparently, they were Blairite centrists.

Yes, Labour had a more radical manifesto in 2019. With many spending promises apparently thought up on the hoof, like the WASPI women one. That went down like a lead balloon.

Regarding Starmer, Tyke, I assume you didn't see Anneliese Dodds set out Labour's economic vision last month? Basically, it is back to the very sensible approach of 2015-17.

[wilts rover]

As I keep saying Tyke, it's about compromise. If you want Labour to give you just precisely what you personally want, there will never be another Labour Govrnment.

That's the simple truth. There isn't anything remotely close to a majority in the country who want the nationalist, statist approach that you personally want.

So yeah, you have to hold your nose and vote for something that you don't fully agree with but that is a significant improvement on the alternative. That is what politics in this country will always be like, until we get rid of the ridiculous electoral system and allow our major parties to fragment into the sub-parties that they really are without destroying their electoral chances.

There is a lot of talk about electoral reform and whether or not Labour should push for it and form a coalition.

I reckon that what happens in Scotland in the next four years might have a big bearing on that.

I sincerely hope you aren't suggesting a coalition with Jimmy Krankies mob Wilts .

I've no problem with Scotland wanting independence at all but that women is utterly barking mad , absolute train crash of a politician .

No exactly the opposite tyke. If the SNP win a referendum and set off down the road to independece Labour will need to win the majority of seats in England to form a government. Much easier doing that with a progressive pact with the LD and Greens.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There is absolutely nothing at all for Labour to gain in working with the SNP. The SNP do not want a Labour Govt in London. They want as right wing as possible a Govt, to piss the Scots off and make independence more likely. That's why the SNP connived with Cameron in 2015 to paint Milliband as someone who would go into coalition with the SNP. And that turned English voters against Labour.

Job done for both the Tories and the SNP.

[tyke1962]

I really struggle to get this "radical thinking" that Corbyn was supposed to have brought.

The economics of Labour's 2017 manifesto which went down very well on the doorstep were nigh on identical to that of Milliband and Balls in 2015. But apparently, they were Blairite centrists.

Yes, Labour had a more radical manifesto in 2019. With many spending promises apparently thought up on the hoof, like the WASPI women one. That went down like a lead balloon.

Regarding Starmer, Tyke, I assume you didn't see Anneliese Dodds set out Labour's economic vision last month? Basically, it is back to the very sensible approach of 2015-17.

The point I'm trying to make which unfortunately seems to escape you is that post covid19 Labour needs to be visionary and radical , the world is a very different place than it was between 2015 - 17 and we are no longer part of the EU .

That said it wouldn't be right to comment on Dodds speech because it was light on detail , perhaps when the specifics are added it maybe worthy of debate .

I'm not particularly bothered which fraction of the party thought up what , way back when to be honest , Thatcher didn't invent Thatcherism but it didn't seem to be a problem for the Tories or the electorate .

What does bother me is a Labour Party adopting their Brexit postion of sit tight , contain and say nowt on rebuilding the economy post pandemic .

There's a shift in mood with regards to Starmer over a number of publications I read , not massive by any means and I'm prepared to give him more time myself but he's taking flack from all sides of the party not just the Corbyn crew .

That said maybe the divisions are too deep now and can't be mended and the party are done for .