Remind me again why we left the EU

[Not Now Kato]

 
 
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/eu-affairs/20210304STO99236/building-tomorrow-s-europe-eu-paves-way-for-conference-on-the-future-of-europe

[belton rover]

Shouldn’t this be in the ‘Benefits of Brexit’ thread?

[Bentley Bullet]

We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.

[SydneyRover]

power without glory

[Not Now Kato]

Shouldn’t this be in the ‘Benefits of Brexit’ thread?

I don't think so.  How does the EU looking to improve itself for the benefit of its member states benefit the UK?  We've left.
 
It's a pity we couldn't be a major part of that change, but hey....
 
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en
 

Who will benefit from this proposal?

    Businesses will benefit from a substantial reduction in cross-border VAT compliance costs. This will facilitate greater cross-border trade.
    EU businesses will be able to compete on equal footing with non-EU businesses that are not charging VAT.
    Member States will gain through an increase in VAT revenues of EUR 7 billion annually.

Of course, this only applies to Member States, and so Brexit loses yet again!

[Not Now Kato]

We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom were conned into voting to leave the European Union, to their detriment!

Fixed that for you BB.

[Bentley Bullet]

Thanks for fixing that NNK, it could well be to the EU's detriment.

[belton rover]

Every conference I’ve ever been too has been shit. The fewer the better, I say.

[SydneyRover]

Thanks for fixing that NNK, it could well be to the EU's detriment.

that's a bit selby, bb.

[Bentley Bullet]

Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.

[i_ateallthepies]

Every conference I’ve ever been too has been shit. The fewer the better, I say.

Guess the common denominator...

[Not Now Kato]

Thanks for fixing that NNK, it could well be to the EU's detriment.

It certainly was to the EU's detriment, we were a major part of it as senior members. Difference is BB, we are just a small single island, they are far far bigger and will be able to weather the loss much better than we will; as trade figures are already showing.

[Bentley Bullet]

NNK, I look at it like this. We managed without being members of the EU before and we'll manage again. We've always been just a small island, and the rest of Europe has always been far bigger.

The trade figures showing now are Covid related and things can only get better in that respect, otherwise, we're all doomed irrespective of whether we're in the EU or not anyway.

A hypothetical question, but one that would answer the real issue of opinions over EU membership would be to ask the people of those countries that actually contribute to it in the form of a referendum.

I doubt the EU leaders would dare do that.

[Not Now Kato]

NNK, I look at it like this. We managed without being members of the EU before and we'll manage again. We've always been just a small island, and the rest of Europe has always been far bigger.

The trade figures showing now are Covid related and things can only get better in that respect, otherwise, we're all doomed irrespective of whether we're in the EU or not anyway.

A hypothetical question, but one that would answer the real issue of opinions over EU membership would be to ask the people of those countries that actually contribute to it in the form of a referendum.

I doubt the EU leaders would dare do that.

BB, the world was a different place back then and some of us have moved on, others want to go backwards - I guess you're one of them?  Globalisation has happened, we either need to be part of it or we'll be left behind - is the latter what you really want?
 
Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid, though the right wing media would have you believe otherwise. Why else would border contolls, (a major tenet of Brexit - control our own borders), be put back?
 

border checks have been pushed back : -

    pre notification requirements/ export health certificates for animal origin not now required until October;
    deferred declaration customs extended Jan 2022;
    Safety and Security Declarations Jan 2022;
    physical agrioood checks on imports Jan 2022;
    live animal checks March 2022.

bugger all to do with Covid mate!
 
As to your rather silly hypothetical question, apart from ultra right wing organisations, I am not aware of ordinary folk in the EU wanting out. Why would anyone want to run a referendum that would be against the interests of ordinary folk?  Oh, wait.....
 
I realise you voted to remain. I understand why you would want to support a democratic decision.  But why, in God's name, you think what is happening is a good thing for this country is beyond me. Are you arguing against reason for the sheer fun of it? Or are you just another internet WUM?
 

 

[Bentley Bullet]

I never said leaving the EU was a good thing. What I've always said is since the vote we are all leavers and there are no Remainers in reality, only Remoaners.

Regarding your question of "Why would anyone want to run a referendum that would be against the interests of ordinary folk?" sounds like a statement that a communist leadership would ask.

Incidentally, the French opinion polls are more in favour of them leaving than ours were in 2016.

[drfchound]

We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.

To be honest BB, your above post should answer the question that NNK has given to the title of this thread.
That should be the end of it really.

[Bentley Bullet]

It is the answer, Hound, and it should be the end of it but as you know from experience over the last 4 or 5 years on here, they are not really questions, they are just new threads that are started with the intention to provoke.

I said years ago that it reminded me of that TV comedy the Office when David Brent and Finchy wouldn't accept they had lost the pub quiz and claimed it was a false result.

[drfchound]

It is the answer, Hound, and it should be the end of it but as you know from experience over the last 4 or 5 years on here, they are not really questions, they are just new threads that are started with the intention to provoke.

I said years ago that it reminded me of that TV comedy the Office when David Brent and Finchy wouldn't accept they had lost the pub quiz and claimed it was a false result.

Yes, that was quite funny wasn’t it.
I agree totally with that first paragraph of yours too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".

But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.

So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."

A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.

[belton rover]

Not. You really are going to have to start accepting what has happened if you are ever going to get out of this bitter mindset of yours.
I’ve accepted that my explanations of why I voted leave have fallen on completely deaf ears, and that   I am now ignorantly and incorrectly labelled as an little Englander who hates Europe and Europeans by many people. And the evidence is my vote.
However your attack on a poster who voted to remain, but accepts the democratic procedure and then tries to deal with it with positivity and and encouragement, is quite scary. A WUM? Really?

[BillyStubbsTears]

If COVID is responsible for a 41% drop in our exports to the EU in January, how are we to explain the fact that exports to the rest of the world went up by 2%?

It's this insistence on ignoring inconvenient facts and batting away any adverse consequence of Brexit that sours the discussion. It is what you get when you come with your mind made up and aren't prepared to properly consider the evidence.

[BigH]

We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.

That's one reason but not THE reason.

Because that vote was merely an advisory referendum. The question asked being:

Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?

Note use of the word 'should' and the lack of reference to any specific terms on which the UK should remain or leave.

However, the outcome of the advisory referendum was interpreted by successive Conservative administrations as being, initially, a directive to take us out of some EU institutions - what some call a 'soft' Brexit - and then, ultimately, to exit every EU institution and partition Northern Ireland for trade purposes - what some call a 'hard' Brexit.

Remember that. It was their interpretation. Not yours or mine.

[Bentley Bullet]

We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".

But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.

So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."

A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.

A start would be if you bad loser Remoaners accepted you lost and got on with it, instead of going on, and on, and on, and on. and on, and on, and f**king on about all the reasons why we should have stayed in the EU' and refusing point blank to shut the f**k up, accept it, and get on with it.

I find it quite amusing that on the football forum, people are told to f**k off and support Leeds if they slag the club off for, for instance, comparing the side now to the one under Sean O'Driscoll in the Championship. What makes it hilarious is it is often the very same people who on this forum slag the country off and talk about how great it was back in the EU.

I wonder what their reaction would be if they were told to f**k off and live in Germany?

[Bentley Bullet]

If COVID is responsible for a 41% drop in our exports to the EU in January, how are we to explain the fact that exports to the rest of the world went up by 2%?

It's this insistence on ignoring inconvenient facts and batting away any adverse consequence of Brexit that sours the discussion. It is what you get when you come with your mind made up and aren't prepared to properly consider the evidence.

I said the 41% drop in exports was Covid related, not responsible for it.

If you are so convincingly right, why do you have to rely on misquotes to get your point across?

[selby]

  The liberal elite going back and forwards to meet up with the EU leaders turning everyone against the EU fools that they were belittling everyone telling them they didn't know what they were doing
  When the educated idiots didn't know how they were hurting their own
 stance by going on about it.
 And the educated idiots are still making the same mistakes, aren't you.

[drfchound]

If COVID is responsible for a 41% drop in our exports to the EU in January, how are we to explain the fact that exports to the rest of the world went up by 2%?

It's this insistence on ignoring inconvenient facts and batting away any adverse consequence of Brexit that sours the discussion. It is what you get when you come with your mind made up and aren't prepared to properly consider the evidence.

I said the 41% drop in exports was Covid related, not responsible for it.

If you are so convincingly right, why do you have to rely on misquotes to get your point across?

Misrepresentation.

[Bentley Bullet]

If BST was Prime Minister and not just the leader of the Britain Surrendering Together party, I wonder on how many occasions he would have had to resign for misrepresentation?

[BillyStubbsTears]

We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".

But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.

So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."

A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.

A start would be if you bad loser Remoaners accepted you lost and got on with it, instead of going on, and on, and on, and on. and on, and on, and f**king on about all the reasons why we should have stayed in the EU' and refusing point blank to shut the f**k up, accept it, and get on with it.

I find it quite amusing that on the football forum, people are told to f**k off and support Leeds if they slag the club off for, for instance, comparing the side now to the one under Sean O'Driscoll in the Championship. What makes it hilarious is it is often the very same people who on this forum slag the country off and talk about how great it was back in the EU.

I wonder what their reaction would be if they were told to f**k off and live in Germany?

See?

You try to have a sensible discussion based on facts and there is simply no engagement. Just bitter, unpleasant rants.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, it's a great analogy and one which you have chosen to ignore, as usual.

It is actually a light-hearted analogy, but despite that, it is absolutely accurate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB.
You said the trade figures were "COVID related" and gave no indication that you thought anything else was a significant factor. If you think otherwise, maybe you ought to say so?

If you'd said "COVID may have played a minor role in making these numbers so bad but it's unarguable that the primary reason is the Brexit effect on imports and exports" I wouldn't have argued with you.

IS that what you meant? If it is, I withdraw what I said as it misrepresents your views. If it isn't, then I entirely stand by what I said.