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Author Topic: MPs shagging flags  (Read 7471 times)

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River Don

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #60 on March 25, 2021, 11:07:21 am by River Don »
So you don't think the Labour party singing about keeping the Red flag flying high shows an UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity?

No more than Rovers fans singing about keeping the Red flag flying high.



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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #61 on March 25, 2021, 11:11:33 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Odd how someone could equate a song that celebrates ordinary people fighting oppression with being un-British.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #62 on March 25, 2021, 11:15:49 am by Bentley Bullet »
So you don't think the Labour party singing about keeping the Red flag flying high shows an UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity?

No more than Rovers fans singing about keeping the Red flag flying high.

Exactly, just like fans of other football clubs. So it's not such an unBritish, deep-seated insecure thing to do, is it? It is quite a common British feature.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 11:22:02 am by Bentley Bullet »

River Don

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #63 on March 25, 2021, 01:18:17 pm by River Don »
So you don't think the Labour party singing about keeping the Red flag flying high shows an UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity?

No more than Rovers fans singing about keeping the Red flag flying high.

Exactly, just like fans of other football clubs. So it's not such an unBritish, deep-seated insecure thing to do, is it? It is quite a common British feature.

My point is, there is a time and place.

Flying a flag all the time in your back garden? A bit odd.

idler

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #64 on March 25, 2021, 01:29:51 pm by idler »
I saw a few years ago where a study showed that when everyone in a factory wore the high vis jackets it diluted other workers appreciation of the dangers they were working around.
It became the norm and then became ignored to an extent.
 I think that it's the same with the overuse of flags and taking the knee. Once you start doing and using things all of the time a lot of people will just go through the motions without reflecting on the reason behind.

Axholme Lion

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #65 on March 25, 2021, 01:44:00 pm by Axholme Lion »
I saw a few years ago where a study showed that when everyone in a factory wore the high vis jackets it diluted other workers appreciation of the dangers they were working around.
It became the norm and then became ignored to an extent.
 I think that it's the same with the overuse of flags and taking the knee. Once you start doing and using things all of the time a lot of people will just go through the motions without reflecting on the reason behind.

That is a very good point. It's true, you don't notice them, you become blind to them.

River Don

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #66 on March 25, 2021, 02:30:13 pm by River Don »
Quote
There are legions of them, unemployable, anti social rabble. They don't pay any attention to any covid restrictions as it makes no difference to them, still sucking up benefits while normal are struggling to make ends meet. they roam around spitting, swearing, thieving, not to mention the drugs.
Are you happy to be around this lot?

As I've got older, I've come to realise there are a great many people with mental health issues. Some are just unfortunate, some have been severely abused.

When they fall off the rails, it doesn't really help to abuse, marginalise and castigate them. Who can be surprised when they become difficult, antisocial, criminal and seek escape through drugs?

It's by no means all but I do think there are a lot.

How do we get rid of 'them'? I don't think it's possible and I don't think it's possible to breed such problems away. Criminalising them probably doesn't help but dealing with such mental health probems would be a longterm expensive process. Throughout history we have usually found reasons to lock them away in one institution or another.

Axholme Lion

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #67 on March 25, 2021, 03:26:34 pm by Axholme Lion »
Quote
There are legions of them, unemployable, anti social rabble. They don't pay any attention to any covid restrictions as it makes no difference to them, still sucking up benefits while normal are struggling to make ends meet. they roam around spitting, swearing, thieving, not to mention the drugs.
Are you happy to be around this lot?

As I've got older, I've come to realise there are a great many people with mental health issues. Some are just unfortunate, some have been severely abused.

When they fall off the rails, it doesn't really help to abuse, marginalise and castigate them. Who can be surprised when they become difficult, antisocial, criminal and seek escape through drugs?

It's by no means all but I do think there are a lot.

Yes, there are some like that and it is very sad. The ones i am thinking about are the army of chavs.
How do we get rid of 'them'? I don't think it's possible and I don't think it's possible to breed such problems away. Criminalising them probably doesn't help but dealing with such mental health probems would be a longterm expensive process. Throughout history we have usually found reasons to lock them away in one institution or another.

River Don

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #68 on March 25, 2021, 03:40:02 pm by River Don »
The army of chavs?

Well, again there I think there are a lot of mental health problems. From young mothers, who neglected as children who feel a deep need to have children of their own, to fulfil a need to feel unconditional love, without necessarily considering how they will support them. To the other extreme of county lines gangsters grooming a generation of vulnerable kids as viscous street criminals.

One way or another there are a lot of blighted young lives out there. Instead of some eugenics program that won't work but will be cruel and discriminatory we'd be better off investing in education and social care.

Axholme Lion

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #69 on March 25, 2021, 03:48:45 pm by Axholme Lion »
The army of chavs?

Well, again there I think there are a lot of mental health problems. From young mothers, who neglected as children who feel a deep need to have children of their own, to fulfil a need to feel unconditional love, without necessarily considering how they will support them. To the other extreme of county lines gangsters grooming a generation of vulnerable kids as viscous street criminals.

One way or another there are a lot of blighted young lives out there. Instead of some eugenics program that won't work but will be cruel and discriminatory we'd be better off investing in education and social care.

I respect your views, but who foots the bill and when will it end?

DonnyOsmond

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #70 on March 25, 2021, 03:51:28 pm by DonnyOsmond »
The army of chavs?

Well, again there I think there are a lot of mental health problems. From young mothers, who neglected as children who feel a deep need to have children of their own, to fulfil a need to feel unconditional love, without necessarily considering how they will support them. To the other extreme of county lines gangsters grooming a generation of vulnerable kids as viscous street criminals.

One way or another there are a lot of blighted young lives out there. Instead of some eugenics program that won't work but will be cruel and discriminatory we'd be better off investing in education and social care.

I respect your views, but who foots the bill and when will it end?


How about the millionaires and billionaires?

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #71 on March 25, 2021, 03:57:00 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
So you don't think the Labour party singing about keeping the Red flag flying high shows an UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity?

Given that the Red Flag isn't a national flag, no.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #72 on March 25, 2021, 03:58:40 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I've never understood this pride in the flag thing. It seems to demand uncritical support and that is simply childish and unthinking.

I am deeply proud of some things Britain has done and some things it has stood for. Equally, some aspects of British history and British culture utterly disgust me.

I want to be able to promote and praise the former, while criticising and trying to change the latter. But a culture that prioritises the flag is implicitly one which frowns on criticism of any aspect of the nation. And I suspect that is the battle line that the Tories are wanting to draw in the clearly planned move to emphasise the importance of the flag.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #73 on March 25, 2021, 04:37:37 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
The other odd thing about this move to have the flag flying 24/7 from Govt buildings. When asked why he supported it, a backwoodsman, Brexit supporting Tory MP said "Because they do it in France and Germany."


Bentley Bullet

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #74 on March 25, 2021, 04:41:59 pm by Bentley Bullet »
So you don't think the Labour party singing about keeping the Red flag flying high shows an UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity?

Given that the Red Flag isn't a national flag, no.

What's that got to do with it?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #75 on March 25, 2021, 04:52:42 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
So you don't think the Labour party singing about keeping the Red flag flying high shows an UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity?

Given that the Red Flag isn't a national flag, no.

What's that got to do with it?

Surely it has everything to do with it.

You CHOOSE to support a football club. You CHOOSE to agree with a political philosophy. You choose to become part of those movements and the flags are symbols of the identity of the group that you have chosen to join.

You don't choose you nationality. It's an accident of fate. Which is why I've never understood how someone can have pride in their nationality.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #76 on March 25, 2021, 05:20:28 pm by Bentley Bullet »
River Don didn't stipulate national flags. He said he always thought there was something deeply unBritish about flying flags.

Your last paragraph doesn't surprise me in the least. I can't imagine you being capable of showing pride in your country under any circumstance, even though you excel in your obsession with being ashamed of it.

Now, if you were German.........

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #77 on March 25, 2021, 05:45:27 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
BB
In your rush to trot out another nasty little dig, dragging another intelligent discussion into the gutter, you have totally misunderstood a simple sentence.

I explicitly said earlier that I am extremely proud of many things that Britain has done and stood for. That's a different thing from being proud of my nationality. I'm sure you'll see the difference when the bile level drops a tad.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #78 on March 25, 2021, 06:21:07 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Try again......
River Don didn't stipulate national flags. He said he always thought there was something deeply unBritish about flying flags.

River Don

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #79 on March 25, 2021, 06:27:39 pm by River Don »
My bad, I wasn't precise enough.  I accept that.

If it will help the debate, I did mean national flags.

River Don

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #80 on March 25, 2021, 06:55:49 pm by River Don »
The other odd thing about this move to have the flag flying 24/7 from Govt buildings. When asked why he supported it, a backwoodsman, Brexit supporting Tory MP said "Because they do it in France and Germany."



Well the French, Germans, Italians, Dutch, Belgians and such have all been invaded in the relatively recent past. So I suppose there is an urge to proclaim themselves as being in charge. Where as the British haven't really been invaded since William the bas**rd was riding around salting Yorkshire.

And the Americans still can't yet get over that they beat the redcoats, so they still need to hang up flags.

Off topic but quite fascinating. Did you know during the American war of independence the British encouraged slaves to escape and join them against the American colonists with the promise of freedom. At that time the Americans were still fighting for the right to own slaves. I wonder how many black Americans are aware of that when they celebrate Independence Day?

wilts rover

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #81 on March 25, 2021, 07:12:59 pm by wilts rover »
UnBritish, deep-seated insecurity? Do you mean like in the way the Labour party likes to sing about keeping the Red flag flying high?

The red flag being the symbol of the ordinary people taking control away from the entitled elite in the French Revolution of course.

The song was written by a chap named Jim Connell after watching a guard wave a train off apparently and refrences working class struggle for their rights in the 19th century, something he participated in. What exactly about it is un-British?

wilts rover

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #82 on March 25, 2021, 07:18:23 pm by wilts rover »
I don't have a problem with flags flying from government and civic buildings, we have always done this for special ocassions. Thing is if they are flying all the time how are you going to mark the Queen's Birthday, St George's Day etc - not fly them?

What I do have a problem with is the government ordering this. Just another step on the road to full fascism.

Filo

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #83 on March 25, 2021, 08:37:34 pm by Filo »
I don't have a problem with flags flying from government and civic buildings, we have always done this for special ocassions. Thing is if they are flying all the time how are you going to mark the Queen's Birthday, St George's Day etc - not fly them?

What I do have a problem with is the government ordering this. Just another step on the road to full fascism.

I think they are allowed to fly two flags on occasions like your example, the Royal Standard and St Georges Cross cover your examples

i_ateallthepies

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #84 on March 27, 2021, 02:12:42 pm by i_ateallthepies »
Getting rid of 'undesirable characteristics' ain't half going to cut down Millwall's fanbase.

This one didn't gain any traction first time around so I think it's worth a bump just in case Axholme missed it.

Axholme Lion

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #85 on March 29, 2021, 11:17:55 am by Axholme Lion »
Getting rid of 'undesirable characteristics' ain't half going to cut down Millwall's fanbase.

This one didn't gain any traction first time around so I think it's worth a bump just in case Axholme missed it.

I did see it and had a chuckle to myself.

selby

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #86 on March 29, 2021, 03:55:35 pm by selby »
   Making the EU flag could be a good thing to get into like football shirts when a country drops a star off the flag every year.

selby

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #87 on March 29, 2021, 05:28:05 pm by selby »
  And just a plain old white one would be about right for the Labour party and the Liberals

SydneyRover

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #88 on March 29, 2021, 10:04:54 pm by SydneyRover »
what would a tory flag be ...... solid black maybe a black dot for every unecessary death?

Filo

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Re: MPs shagging flags
« Reply #89 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:10 pm by Filo »
what would a tory flag be ...... solid black maybe a black dot for every unecessary death?

That flag would be massive!

 

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