If we lose today....

[DonnyOsmond]

I'd definitely start the application process after that. Give people 2 weeks to apply, that gives the players 4 games to show if they want Butler or not.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There's many warning lights flashing and they can't be ignored.  Having said that, they may as well wait for the summer now to replace Butler, the season is over.  Can't turn this around.

But in the background that process must be underway, don't wait until May to start it and it take 4 weeks wasting half the off season.

[normal rules]

That’s a poor performance. Plain and simple. BR wanted it more. Looking at the 5abke you can see why. It’s like Rovers have just given up. When they levelled the commentator on iplayer remarked that was the risk, and so it was.
Lokilo and bogle both poor. Richards showed spark and was taken off oddly. The stats speak for themselves. Very few shots on target. No aggressive attacking play from anyone. Far, far too many incomplete passes. No leadership on the field at all.
I’m not blaming Butler. I blame the players.

[mjg]

I wouldn’t be too bothered if a few this load of dross don’t sign another contract, and that Richards and bogel lazy or what , a 40 year old player was the first one behind the ball every time

[The Beast]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

[mjg]

No wonder we can’t keep hold of a manager

[Janso]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

And so it begins. 

[RoversAlias]

People thinking it was odd that Richards went off...the lad isn't bothered when he's on the pitch.

He gives away at bare minimum 6 foul every game that are just him booting an opposition player. He runs down blind alleys at every opportunity. I was amazed he passed to Copps for our goal because he almost always tries an ill-advised shot from that position, but it was business as usual after that.

He probably was better than any one of Lokilo, Bogle or Fey but that is saying very, very little of those three today. He's a liability and he cost us the game with his utterly stupid error for their second goal. He should have been taken off there and then.

[Chris Black come back]

Richards is really quite possibly the worst foul giver in recent history. He may as well give the ref a little note before each game telegraphing the fouls he is going to make. So obvious every single time.

[Janso]

That second goal is more than half his doing, imo. Why did he f**k about with that free kick rather than let Horton take it? what the f**k was he trying to achieve? why did he then play a shite ball across the pitch that was nowhere near strong enough? who the f**k does he think he is?

I don't really rate Lokilo but I thought he had a better game than Richards. At least Lokilo looked threatening, and very nearly scored. Richards seems to think he's a legend and can stroll through everyone every single week then score a worldy.

[drfc1951]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

[silent majority]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

[redarmy82]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

[silent majority]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

What is it that people are saying? What is this common theme?

Tell me what Dickov had to say because I can't think of anything.

[redarmy82]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

There was an interview that did the rounds about 18 months ago when he spoke about his time at the club and how there was no way he could achieve the goals the club wanted with the budget given.

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

What is it that people are saying? What is this common theme?

Tell me what Dickov had to say because I can't think of anything.

[redarmy82]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

What is it that people are saying? What is this common theme?

Tell me what Dickov had to say because I can't think of anything.

There was an interview that did the rounds about 18 months ago when he spoke about his time at the club and how there was no way he could achieve the goals the club wanted with the budget given.

[vaya]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

What is it that people are saying? What is this common theme?

Tell me what Dickov had to say because I can't think of anything.

There was an interview that did the rounds about 18 months ago when he spoke about his time at the club and how there was no way he could achieve the goals the club wanted with the budget given.

Two sides to that equation

1) The budget

2) Dickov's ability

[redarmy82]

Add to that some of the players who've left over the last few years, and what they had to say about the new contracts they were offered.

[silent majority]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

What is it that people are saying? What is this common theme?

Tell me what Dickov had to say because I can't think of anything.

There was an interview that did the rounds about 18 months ago when he spoke about his time at the club and how there was no way he could achieve the goals the club wanted with the budget given.

So, firstly that's not evidence. And secondly a manager leaves a club and blames the size of the budget, what's new?

The thing that surprises me though, is why we have a certain element of our supporters who always believe that the club MUST be at fault and spend their whole time looking for something. They'd rather believe somebody the club has sacked rather than the club they say they support. Why is that?

[silent majority]

Add to that some of the players who've left over the last few years, and what they had to say about the new contracts they were offered.

Is that evidence?

Players leave all the time and I've yet to hear one who said the offer he had was good enough but he still wanted to leave. Or that his demands were far beyond the club. It does happen you know, players do ask for far more than they're worth!!

And yet, somehow this is the clubs fault?

[redarmy82]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

Seems to be a common story though doesn't from people who leave the club?
Dickov one example.

How many more people have to say it before it has some significance?

What is it that people are saying? What is this common theme?

Tell me what Dickov had to say because I can't think of anything.

There was an interview that did the rounds about 18 months ago when he spoke about his time at the club and how there was no way he could achieve the goals the club wanted with the budget given.

So, firstly that's not evidence. And secondly a manager leaves a club and blames the size of the budget, what's new?

The thing that surprises me though, is why we have a certain element of our supporters who always believe that the club MUST be at fault and spend their whole time looking for something. They'd rather believe somebody the club has sacked rather than the club they say they support. Why is that?

Dickov is just one example.
Some recent ex players have said similar, in terms of pay cuts, etc.

What i'd really like to know is why the club is intent on the model of short term contracts for its own players and over reliance on loan signings. And why we don't replace the assets we sell (Marquis, Whiteman, Marosi, etc) As posted elsewhere, the top four teams have ten loan players between them.

[RoversAlias]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

That is very revealing SM. Does this mean we have a divided dressing room? We all know what happened when the 2011/12 squad was basically split down the middle.

Very concerning to read and perhaps an indicator of why our performances and results have gone off a cliff?

[Chris Black come back]

The loan lads. Some more committed than others I would have thought.

[drfchound]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

That is very revealing SM. Does this mean we have a divided dressing room? We all know what happened when the 2011/12 squad was basically split down the middle.

Very concerning to read and perhaps an indicator of why our performances and results have gone off a cliff?

I remember being at Cantley Park at the back end of that season.
Our own players in one group and the experiment lads clearly keeping themselves 8n another one.
There was little interchange between the two.

[GazLaz]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

There you go again, passing on blame. Insinuating that certain players are to blame for this situation and there are trouble causers in the ranks.

Who implements the structure that possibly causes things like this? Who recruited the players? Who is behind the want for high player turnover and turbulent summers every year allow no real stability?

You constantly try to deflect issues away from potential issues with the clubs structure and mistakes the may have made/ still be making.

We all know the owners do an amazing job parting with their hard earned money keeping the club afloat. That doesn’t mean they are immune to criticism and do everything right.

The way you defend everything they have done in nearly every post and try and deflect things away is hilarious.

The board didn’t make a mistake appointing Butler, the players are the issue.

Henshall was brilliant at his job yet the players are the issue.

The loan system is great yet the players are the issue.

Players contracts allowed to run down and causing them to spend the end of the season in limbo... that was Moores fault.

Your painting certain players, that won’t be here next season, as trouble makers... who would that be? Richards? Balcombe? Simoes? Lokilo? Smith? James? Robertson? Gomes? All were involved today. Do you know some of them are trouble and Butler doesn’t? Surely if they were a major issue he wouldn’t have them around the squad.

[Getridorit]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

What?!
Your saying he has no evidence, but also confirm he's getting information from a player?!

What is it? Because you've just contradicted yourself.

But I can tell you from the outside looking in, it certainly looks like he's spot on in what he's saying, it makes perfect sense.

[PDX_Rover]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

This is interesting.

Taylor?

[ravenrover]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

What?!
Your saying he has no evidence, but also confirm he's getting information from a player?!

What is it? Because you've just contradicted yourself.

But I can tell you from the outside looking in, it certainly looks like he's spot on in what he's saying, it makes perfect sense.

The statement was there is no money to retain the players we've got for next season, that is what there is no evidence for. SM agrees somebody may be stirring things, try reading what is said before diving in, from the outside looking in it's talking bo!!ocks again

[silent majority]

There’s no money to retain the players we’ve got for next season, they’re being offered relative peanuts, there’s no money for a so called ‘high profile’ manager and if there was he’d have his hands tied, in fact he’d be in a straight jacket.

Evidence?

He hasn't got any.

Somebody is telling him things, that I can guarantee, but the information he's getting is from a certain side of the dressing room. Not one that will be here much longer.

What?!
Your saying he has no evidence, but also confirm he's getting information from a player?!

What is it? Because you've just contradicted yourself.

But I can tell you from the outside looking in, it certainly looks like he's spot on in what he's saying, it makes perfect sense.

The statement was there is no money to retain the players we've got for next season, that is what there is no evidence for. SM agrees somebody may be stirring things, try reading what is said before diving in, from the outside looking in it's talking bo!!ocks again

Thanks ravenrover, I'm glad that my post was understood  the way it was written. I really hate it when posters challenge what I write without bothering to read what I've written, their desperation to prove me wrong is too apparent.

But yes, it was about finances and having evidence to support the argument that we're offering peanuts to existing players, none of which is true. There's an agreement between the club, players and their agents, as there has been all season, that contract negotiations can wait for a while.

[PDX_Rover]

Michael Gibson : Interim fan.