On reflection

[wing commander]

  I didn't comment over the weekend. Frankly i was that fuming i couldn't trust what i would say.

  As expected there are the normal comments about our boards lack of ambition. I cant join that band wagon, they have supported the club during these tough times and backed the manager at xmas with what he wanted as bad as those have turned out to be. They gave a Donny lad through and through the chance to take us on and i didn't have a problem with that either.That hasn't worked out and he's well out of his depth as his interviews and tactics show. As much as he cant manage the team next year, on reflection theres no point sacking him now as we would be panic appointing. As long as the board are already making enquiries so we can get someone in place asap at the end of the season then thats fair enough and we just have to see it through.

 My fury is aimed at nobody else really other than the players who pull on that shirt. In the 40 years i've been going and watching Rovers i've seen plenty of tough times and hammerings. However those have mainly come because we were financially cripples and while the players gave there best they were simply not good enough.

 This current lot should be ashamed of themselves, not giving a toss and not really trying must be one of the worst insults you can give a pro footballer but you will be hard pressed to come to any other conclusion after the last few performances.There was exceptions, as bad as Lokilo looked he put a shift in at least. Others however had me screaming at the telly. That 38mins from Robertson was beyond abysmal and he wouldn't put a Rovers shirt on again for me and would be on the first train back to Scotland this morning. Players who i really rated early in the season like Wright now look like they should be playing on a Sunday morning down the park. Frankly you could go through them all and rip most of them to pieces.

 The team spirit also is cause for major disapointment, we heard lots of interviews about how close knit they were, yet now they are strangers with rumours of klicks in the camp that remind you of the experiment days.

So on reflection,the sooner this season finishes,we send back the loan players,release most of those out of contract,get a new guy in the better as far as i'm concerned.

[Metalmicky]

Good post Wg Cdr..... totally agree that we can't point any fingers at the Board - they have done more that enough to support the cause.  It feels that the wheels came off when DM left and that is no reflection on AB - he was brave enough to stand up and be counted.  I wish he would pull a shirt on again and show some of the current squad what heart, ambition and desire is all about.

I agree it would be pointless appointing anyone at this time - I also hope that the Board have got their feelers out and will look to appoint a new man in the close season, so he has a chance to develop his own squad and instil his beliefs.

[silent majority]

Good post Wg Cdr..... totally agree that we can't point any fingers at the Board - they have done more that enough to support the cause.  It feels that the wheels came off when DM left and that is no reflection on AB - he was brave enough to stand up and be counted.  I wish he would pull a shirt on again and show some of the current squad what heart, ambition and desire is all about.

I agree it would be pointless appointing anyone at this time - I also hope that the Board have got their feelers out and will look to appoint a new man in the close season, so he has a chance to develop his own squad and instil his beliefs.

I feel sure the board will be meeting today.

[Jonathan]

Lots of fair comments above. I think it’s a given that any manager that we appoint will have the chance to develop their own squad as, for better or worse, there isn’t going to be much left of this one. So it’s a chance for the manger to bring in a new core of players alongside the few that are under contract and will presumably remain.

I hope, if and when the impact of the pandemic eases, we learn some lessons from this. I cannot help but think that the uncertainty in players’ minds (both loanees and contracted) over where they will be next season is at least a contributory factor in the abysmal form. Agents will be busy making moves, players heads will already be turned and they won’t want to get injured.

We’ve had this kind of turnover for many years now. There was talk that the club had wanted to manage contracts in advance more effectively, but that was pre-covid and I get that changes things to some extent. But even though the word is that the players are happy to be deferring contract talks, we would be foolish and naive to believe their heads haven’t already been turned. It’s a short career and they can’t afford to be caught behind the curve - they’ll want to be planning ahead to secure their futures even if the club hasn’t been. Of course it will affect things on the pitch.

Hopefully this summer is a line in the sand on that issue and a new start.

[tommy toes]

Where are these player's heads being turned to?
Getting a contract with Stalybridge Celtic?
You'd imagine if players were looking to get a new contract or a move elsewhere they'd be busting a gut.
This lot aren't.
It doesn't make sense.

[Jonathan]

Some may well already have moves lined up. Honestly, if I was them, I probably would. Nobody will want to be leaving it all to chance. Players (and in particular their agents) will have been on this for some time. If you’re “busting a gut” and risking injury then you’re also risking being jobless, or in the case of the loan players scuppering their next step. That will play on the subconscious if nothing else, and that affects form. Potential suitors won’t simply be judging ability on the last six weeks or so.

[the vicar]

I don’t think we can blame Bostock or Richards as when they came on the game changed and we played better still got hammered but was better till the 4th goal went in and apart from Big Tom I would not give two pence for. Just look how many celebrated when we scored not many at all and that is the attitude of most of them

[the vicar]

I think with the situation teams are all in there will be a lot of players up for grabs on a free in July

[dickos1]

The contract situation is embarrassing, and a major contributing factor.
We’ve players who know they won’t be here next season and are playing like they don’t care as they know they’re off.
That’s all down to whoever decided not to offer contracts, Wright, James, Halliday, lokilo, Amos, okenabirhie, gomes,
All out of contract in a few weeks,
It’s shocking it really is

[vaya]

The contract situation is embarrassing, and a major contributing factor.
We’ve players who know they won’t be here next season and are playing like they don’t care as they know they’re off.
That’s all down to whoever decided not to offer contracts, Wright, James, Halliday, lokilo, Amos, okenabirhie, gomes,
All out of contract in a few weeks,
It’s shocking it really is

Okenabirhie has another year left.

The rest I'm personally relatively ambivalent about, with the possible exception of James as he's reasonably versatile.

[the vicar]

At least when he plays he tries his socks off I think it’s fare to say

[DMnumber4]

Some may well already have moves lined up. Honestly, if I was them, I probably would. Nobody will want to be leaving it all to chance. Players (and in particular their agents) will have been on this for some time. If you’re “busting a gut” and risking injury then you’re also risking being jobless, or in the case of the loan players scuppering their next step. That will play on the subconscious if nothing else, and that affects form. Potential suitors won’t simply be judging ability on the last six weeks or so.

"Football is self employed. You have a rolling contract every year and get one shot at it. If you play like we have been playing, you'll soon get a name for yourself and teams won't take you because they see you as weak - mentally and physically - and not willing to put the work in." - A. Butler.

[dickos1]

The contract situation is embarrassing, and a major contributing factor.
We’ve players who know they won’t be here next season and are playing like they don’t care as they know they’re off.
That’s all down to whoever decided not to offer contracts, Wright, James, Halliday, lokilo, Amos, okenabirhie, gomes,
All out of contract in a few weeks,
It’s shocking it really is

Okenabirhie has another year left.

The rest I'm personally relatively ambivalent about, with the possible exception of James as he's reasonably versatile.

It’s easy to say that now, but some of these were integral to our great run earlier this season.
The point I was making though was that leaving the door open for our players to agree deals elsewhere could be a major contributing factor to our downturn in form.
Put that together with a load of loan players who know they won’t be here next season and you’ve got a big problem as we’ve now found

[Tiddysdad]

I’m just lost! Lost as to how the board must be feeling. As was said earlier they have done all that’s been asked of them. Then they see this happening. Ask yourself if you had a car that was constantly breaking down would you continue throw money at it or get rid. If they walked away what would we think? I can’t praise them enough. Yes OK this appointment of Andy hasn’t worked but they thought/hoped it would like most of us did on here when they made it. They’ve employed a good mechanic but the parts he’s got to use are letting him down.
On a personal thought I feel for 3 players in particular.

First Copps – If this is going to be his final season (I really hope it isn’t) He shouldn’t be seeing his final few games go this way. Up to Christmas he was going to end his career in a successful team but now he has to deal with what is relegation form.

Second Tom Anderson – What an honour he must have felt being given the captaincy. He must have thought he was going to be the captain of a promotion winning team. He had a great partnership at the back with Butts and now it as all changed through no fault of his. In my opinion he works his sock off each game and as also come up with a couple of goals.

Third is John Bostock – When I heard that we had signed him on a permanent contract I thought WOW. Everyone down here in Nottingham couldn’t believe it. They all wanted him to sign for forest. He came into a team that was on the up. He signed, as he has said himself, for a manager who asked him personally to join Doncaster. He looked at Doncaster’s position and must have thought ye this is a division 1 team now but I’ll be playing in the Championship next season. He came in played and has shown he is a far better player than we could have hoped for. But he got injured and on his return he is now playing with a team that is not performing as he had seen before he signed. I feel that he is asked to play more as a central defender than the creative midfielder he is. In my opinion he has worked hard for the team each game he’s played but has been let down by others. How he wasn’t in the starting 11 last Saturday against Wigan I don’t know. He is a level above and trying too hard to compensate for others, so much so that we are not seeing the best of him. He must be feeling it really as I think that Daren Moore must have known he was leaving for Wednesday at the time he was selling Club Doncaster to him. I just hope that we can keep John Bostock here. I feel that he could settle here and be a great servant for the club.

I love this club and it effects my day as I’m sure it does many of you. I’m still optimistic that we will stop this run of form but that’s my heart talking.
Rover till I die.

[nortikorner]

Its disrespectful to say people are not trying
The problem as been in  the defence before Moore left and to the present
Playing from the back does not work you see in match in all division
playing in your own half and limited movement up front

[Chris Black come back]

There are very major changes needed at the back. We need to be thinking the unthinkable, as we have been a soft touch at the back for a long time. A poor defensive unit that needs rebuilding.

[Jonathan]

Some may well already have moves lined up. Honestly, if I was them, I probably would. Nobody will want to be leaving it all to chance. Players (and in particular their agents) will have been on this for some time. If you’re “busting a gut” and risking injury then you’re also risking being jobless, or in the case of the loan players scuppering their next step. That will play on the subconscious if nothing else, and that affects form. Potential suitors won’t simply be judging ability on the last six weeks or so.

"Football is self employed. You have a rolling contract every year and get one shot at it. If you play like we have been playing, you'll soon get a name for yourself and teams won't take you because they see you as weak - mentally and physically - and not willing to put the work in." - A. Butler.

“It is an added issue that players do not need and I want them to feel relaxed and be part of this team because I want the players to represent the club and myself and the only way you can do is by having security.” - A. Butler.

[DMnumber4]

Some may well already have moves lined up. Honestly, if I was them, I probably would. Nobody will want to be leaving it all to chance. Players (and in particular their agents) will have been on this for some time. If you’re “busting a gut” and risking injury then you’re also risking being jobless, or in the case of the loan players scuppering their next step. That will play on the subconscious if nothing else, and that affects form. Potential suitors won’t simply be judging ability on the last six weeks or so.

"Football is self employed. You have a rolling contract every year and get one shot at it. If you play like we have been playing, you'll soon get a name for yourself and teams won't take you because they see you as weak - mentally and physically - and not willing to put the work in." - A. Butler.

“It is an added issue that players do not need and I want them to feel relaxed and be part of this team because I want the players to represent the club and myself and the only way you can do is by having security.” - A. Butler.

Mixed messages then, Jonathan?

Players won't ever feel 100% secure (8 of Saturday's starting XI could move on in the summer) but AB wants a togetherness, a unity among those who he admits are "self employed" in the nature of their jobs?

[Alan Southstand]

Some may well already have moves lined up. Honestly, if I was them, I probably would. Nobody will want to be leaving it all to chance. Players (and in particular their agents) will have been on this for some time. If you’re “busting a gut” and risking injury then you’re also risking being jobless, or in the case of the loan players scuppering their next step. That will play on the subconscious if nothing else, and that affects form. Potential suitors won’t simply be judging ability on the last six weeks or so.

All very sound thinking, Jon, but it also serves to underline that the Club’s strategy with loans needs a serious re-think. And also, this ponderous attitude with contracts, for those players who have them, has to be flexible enough to offer an improvement if and when someone is making giant strides forward. We don’t ‘seem’ to incentivise, maybe only in very exceptional circumstances (Whiteman, Marquis).

Similarly, we seem to have a problem with keeping good managers. The turmoil, resulting from having had 3 managers over such a relatively short period of time, is now laid bare for all to see. We have yet another massive upheaval yet again, perhaps the biggest we’ve had for some considerable time and I can’t see how we can possibly afford it, given all that’s been going on over the last 12 months.

The Board have a monumental task ahead of them, not just with squad/management re-building but with getting supporter’s confidence and faith back!

[5minstogo]

There are a lot of players who will be eyeing up their next contract elsewhere having been sorting it out since January. Coupled with the large number of loan signings who came to work with DM and it is no wonder we are where we find ourselves today. There will be a massive clear out at the end of the season, that's guaranteed.

[normal rules]

And rest assured, the agents of those players that will be shown the door will already have something lined up. That’s how football is. And it stinks.
It stinks that players can play poorly, despite their potential and yet can walk into another club and continue getting paid.  Football being self employment is not wholly accurate; while you have agents in the background feathering their own and their clients nests.
If these players operated in the private sector like they have on the pitch in the last few games, they would be out of a job.

[Jonathan]

Some may well already have moves lined up. Honestly, if I was them, I probably would. Nobody will want to be leaving it all to chance. Players (and in particular their agents) will have been on this for some time. If you’re “busting a gut” and risking injury then you’re also risking being jobless, or in the case of the loan players scuppering their next step. That will play on the subconscious if nothing else, and that affects form. Potential suitors won’t simply be judging ability on the last six weeks or so.

"Football is self employed. You have a rolling contract every year and get one shot at it. If you play like we have been playing, you'll soon get a name for yourself and teams won't take you because they see you as weak - mentally and physically - and not willing to put the work in." - A. Butler.

“It is an added issue that players do not need and I want them to feel relaxed and be part of this team because I want the players to represent the club and myself and the only way you can do is by having security.” - A. Butler.

Mixed messages then, Jonathan?

Players won't ever feel 100% secure (8 of Saturday's starting XI could move on in the summer) but AB wants a togetherness, a unity among those who he admits are "self employed" in the nature of their jobs?

Yeah there’s an element of mixed messaging, though I don’t blame Butler for that. He clearly wanted to sort contracts as soon as he had the chance but, for whatever reason, that hasn’t happened. He’s now understandably looking for reasons why performances have dipped, and trying to give players a kick up the backside and a motivation. And nobody can argue that they should need to show more pride than this for the sake of their careers.

For what it’s worth I’ve pointed to security and continuity as a factor, but by no means the only factor. And I’m not making excuses for the players. I also think it’d be wrong not to acknowledge that the club’s plans have been affected hugely by the pandemic. I’d like to think that, as a minimum, Halliday, James and Wright would have been tied down to new deals long ago had it not been for covid. And I think those three warrant new deals despite the recent drop offs in form.

[ravenrover]

Good post Wg Cdr..... totally agree that we can't point any fingers at the Board - they have done more that enough to support the cause.  It feels that the wheels came off when DM left and that is no reflection on AB - he was brave enough to stand up and be counted.  I wish he would pull a shirt on again and show some of the current squad what heart, ambition and desire is all about.

I agree it would be pointless appointing anyone at this time - I also hope that the Board have got their feelers out and will look to appoint a new man in the close season, so he has a chance to develop his own squad and instil his beliefs.

I feel sure the board will be meeting today.

Cone on SM don't tease, let's have the goss

[PDX_Rover]

Great op WC. Spot on.

[silent majority]

Good post Wg Cdr..... totally agree that we can't point any fingers at the Board - they have done more that enough to support the cause.  It feels that the wheels came off when DM left and that is no reflection on AB - he was brave enough to stand up and be counted.  I wish he would pull a shirt on again and show some of the current squad what heart, ambition and desire is all about.

I agree it would be pointless appointing anyone at this time - I also hope that the Board have got their feelers out and will look to appoint a new man in the close season, so he has a chance to develop his own squad and instil his beliefs.

I feel sure the board will be meeting today.

Cone on SM don't tease, let's have the goss

Trying not to, and at the same time trying to reassure fans that decisions will be made today and again this week.

The replacement for Adam Henshall is due to come in this week and will be part of a plan to put things back on track amongst other key moves.

[northern soul]

Good post Wg Cdr..... totally agree that we can't point any fingers at the Board - they have done more that enough to support the cause.  It feels that the wheels came off when DM left and that is no reflection on AB - he was brave enough to stand up and be counted.  I wish he would pull a shirt on again and show some of the current squad what heart, ambition and desire is all about.

I agree it would be pointless appointing anyone at this time - I also hope that the Board have got their feelers out and will look to appoint a new man in the close season, so he has a chance to develop his own squad and instil his beliefs.

I feel sure the board will be meeting today.

Cone on SM don't tease, let's have the goss

Trying not to, and at the same time trying to reassure fans that decisions will be made today and again this week.

The replacement for Adam Henshall is due to come in this week and will be part of a plan to put things back on track amongst other key moves.

I didn't doubt there would be a plan in place, but it's nice to see it written down all the same.
Feel a touch sorry for butler, however the club has to come first. Would like him to stay as u23s manager or overseeing the academy set up, whilst doing his badges, or any he hasn't got. Build up his experience and then be the man to take us into the champions League. :-)

[donnybel]

I’d like to him back on the pitch, being a leader and getting the defence back on track!