Greensill

[BigH]

Anyone following this?

The more I read about it the smellier it gets.

A failing bank employs a former PM - on a considerable remuneration package - to try and tap the Chancellor for taxpayer-backed funding to bail it out of the sh*t it had got itself into. Wow!

And then, just as people start delving, the PM announces an inquiry to be led by an, ahem, 'sympathetic' lawyer. More like a 'controlled explosion' methinks.

Tacky.

[ravenrover]

Slease!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We should be more concerned as to how they have failed, they shouldn't fail. Their risk appetite too high and the companies they lent to not at all strong.

What the company actually did is important to many businesses even moreso this past year.  Almost bizarre they failed.

The ironic thing is that the issue is not about government doing anything wrong just the access they had. Whilst they had access they were refused funding etc.  I don't know how you can prevent a former pm having access unless you regulate what a former pm is permitted to do?  Seems unfair.  More concerning is the non political connections to civil service.

[wilts rover]

A lot more to come out apparently. In particular the funding for Gupta's purchase of Liberty Steel by

We should be more concerned as to how they have failed, they shouldn't fail. Their risk appetite too high and the companies they lent to not at all strong.

What the company actually did is important to many businesses even moreso this past year.  Almost bizarre they failed.

The ironic thing is that the issue is not about government doing anything wrong just the access they had. Whilst they had access they were refused funding etc.  I don't know how you can prevent a former pm having access unless you regulate what a former pm is permitted to do?  Seems unfair.  More concerning is the non political connections to civil service.

I don't think it is so much regulating what a former PM (or Minister) can do - but there should be a time limit on them being able to approach a serving government minister on behalf of a private company after leaving office - but how and who can contact the government to ask for money or favours. You can't why should he?

And doesn't this just show how dodgy, Dodgy Dave actually was. A man who worked for a company that has gone bankrupt owing £100's of millions was in charge of the country's finances! And was he really trying to get the money to save Liberty Steel etc, or to earn £60 million from his share purchase.

Robert Jenrick, Serco Test & Trace, PPE purchases and now this - where is taxpayers money going under this government - and how?

[wilts rover]

And here's another one, Matt Hancock awarded NHS contracts to his sister's firm - in which he has shares:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/matt-hancock-topwood-nhs-contracts_uk_607876f3e4b01654bb7c0c54

Nothing to see here, entirely proper, move along...same old sleazy Tories...

[BigH]

We should be more concerned as to how they have failed, they shouldn't fail. Their risk appetite too high and the companies they lent to not at all strong.

What the company actually did is important to many businesses even moreso this past year.  Almost bizarre they failed.

The ironic thing is that the issue is not about government doing anything wrong just the access they had. Whilst they had access they were refused funding etc.  I don't know how you can prevent a former pm having access unless you regulate what a former pm is permitted to do?  Seems unfair.  More concerning is the non political connections to civil service.

As I understand it, Greensill failed because the egotistical Aussie founder got mega-greedy and started entering into ever riskier lending. It doesn't take much to sink the business if some of that stuff goes pop.

So, yes, there's a question for the Bank of England as to how Greensill managed to keep a banking licence.

But surely a bigger point here is how and why the owner was allowed incredible access to the highest level of government - apparently he had a government email address at one point - that allowed him to ask for favours. And all via an ex-PM for Christ's sake.

[SydneyRover]

You would think the tories would know how to pick a charlatan aye?

''How the Greensill empire was brought down''

https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/how-the-greensill-empire-was-brought-down-20210305-p57803#:~:text=Greensill%20Capital's%20demise%20took%20just,to%20keep%20them%20on%20board.

But it is said the easiest people to sell to are salesmen as they always see the upside.

[SydneyRover]

In fact just type this or similar into google ................

UK government/cronyism/developers/ministers

and there is enough to keep you busy all year.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ironic that a couple of weeks ago, we had people on here berating Gordon Brown for making money from his memoirs and giving it to charity.

This is what the real cess pit of politicians filling their pockets looks like. Cameron had been hand in glove with Greensill for a decade. He brought Lex Greensill into No10 as an adviser in 2011. And when he left office, Lex Greensill gave him a job which, in now transpires meant him calling in favours to try to get Greensill Govt money that it wasn't entitled to. And organising off the record meetings with Hancock before Greensill got NHS contracts. Cameron is reported to have bragged to friends that he stood to make £60m from Greensill. Cameron denies that the shares were worth that much (which is a slippery denial, because the report is that he bragged to friends that they COULD be worth that much - presumably if Greensill was successful and his job in lobbying Govt for money Greensill wasn't entitled to was aimed at making it successful. He has point-blank refused to say how much Greensill paid him, or how many shares he was given.)

And by God it gets murkier by the day.

Latest news is that the ex-head of the Met, Sir Bernard Hogan Howe was also working for Greensill. At the same time that he had been given a job by Gove as an adviser to the Cabinet Office. That's the same Cabinet Office that is supervising the "inquiry" into lobbying.
https://twitter.com/telebusiness/status/1382409999922700289
Makes you wonder what possible use an ex-copper could be to a multinational finance house. Apart from being in the heart of Govt where big decisions are made...

Truly Banana Republic stuff.

But they are all the same aren't they?

[Glyn_Wigley]

In fact just type this or similar into google ................

UK government/cronyism/developers/ministers

and there is enough to keep you busy all year.

Private Eye reports loads of it every issue.

[Filo]

Ironic that a couple of weeks ago, we had people on here berating Gordon Brown for making money from his memoirs and giving it to charity.

This is what the real cess pit of politicians filling their pockets looks like. Cameron had been hand in glove with Greensill for a decade. He brought Lex Greensill into No10 as an adviser in 2011. And when he left office, Lex Greensill gave him a job which, in now transpires meant him calling in favours to try to get Greensill Govt money that it wasn't entitled to. And organising off the record meetings with Hancock before Greensill got NHS contracts. Cameron is reported to have bragged to friends that he stood to make £60m from Greensill. Cameron denies that the shares were worth that much (which is a slippery denial, because the report is that he bragged to friends that they COULD be worth that much - presumably if Greensill was successful and his job in lobbying Govt for money Greensill wasn't entitled to was aimed at making it successful. He has point-blank refused to say how much Greensill paid him, or how many shares he was given.)

And by God it gets murkier by the day.

Latest news is that the ex-head of the Met, Sir Bernard Hogan Howe was also working for Greensill. At the same time that he had been given a job by Gove as an adviser to the Cabinet Office. That's the same Cabinet Office that is supervising the "inquiry" into lobbying.
https://twitter.com/telebusiness/status/1382409999922700289
Makes you wonder what possible use an ex-copper could be to a multinational finance house. Apart from being in the heart of Govt where big decisions are made...

Truly Banana Republic stuff.

But they are all the same aren't they?

I don’t think many, if any will comment on that now, the Tory way is to ignore and hope it goes away, over to you Tory fanboys, what are your thoughts on all of this?

[SydneyRover]

Ironic that a couple of weeks ago, we had people on here berating Gordon Brown for making money from his memoirs and giving it to charity.

This is what the real cess pit of politicians filling their pockets looks like. Cameron had been hand in glove with Greensill for a decade. He brought Lex Greensill into No10 as an adviser in 2011. And when he left office, Lex Greensill gave him a job which, in now transpires meant him calling in favours to try to get Greensill Govt money that it wasn't entitled to. And organising off the record meetings with Hancock before Greensill got NHS contracts. Cameron is reported to have bragged to friends that he stood to make £60m from Greensill. Cameron denies that the shares were worth that much (which is a slippery denial, because the report is that he bragged to friends that they COULD be worth that much - presumably if Greensill was successful and his job in lobbying Govt for money Greensill wasn't entitled to was aimed at making it successful. He has point-blank refused to say how much Greensill paid him, or how many shares he was given.)

And by God it gets murkier by the day.

Latest news is that the ex-head of the Met, Sir Bernard Hogan Howe was also working for Greensill. At the same time that he had been given a job by Gove as an adviser to the Cabinet Office. That's the same Cabinet Office that is supervising the "inquiry" into lobbying.
https://twitter.com/telebusiness/status/1382409999922700289
Makes you wonder what possible use an ex-copper could be to a multinational finance house. Apart from being in the heart of Govt where big decisions are made...

Truly Banana Republic stuff.

But they are all the same aren't they?

I don’t think many, if any will comment on that now, the Tory way is to ignore and hope it goes away, over to you Tory fanboys, what are your thoughts on all of this?

The government has turned treasury into a tap-and-go facility for cronies.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

But let's be honest it can't be prevented and there doesn't as yet appear to be anything seriously untoward. Every single person in the world will use relationships and contacts, we can't cut politicians off or businessmen from politics any more than we can a trade union.  As long as it is logged and transparent it's fine. On the face of it there is an issue there that requires an independent review doesn't it?

[SydneyRover]

And if you bfyp persuaded the company you work for to purchase a million widgets from Acme but failed to tell your boss that your wife not only owned shares but was a director of Acme?

[Metalmicky]

TBH, I believe that the majority of politicians enter the job with determination to accomplish good, look after their constituents and be upstanding and principled members of the club......  However, it doesn't take long for them to find the trough and the longer they are in the job, the better they get at working the system... 

What's frustrating is that if they have the time to undertake other jobs, are they fully committed and focused to their primary role?  IMO, the job needs to be exclusive, with no outside interests and no connections to business - if this means we have to increase their pay then so be it.

Let's be honest here - it isn't the first time this has happened and unless there is change, it won't be the last... 

[SydneyRover]

governments that have been in too long start to think they own the joint and that they are untouchable.

[idler]

It ought to be illegal for any MP to lobby or promote any business or scheme that will enrich themselves and any member of their family or friends.
They should also be precluded from joining any company that has profited greatly from their efforts whilst an MP.
Honesty and decency ought to be the least we could expect from an MP.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And if you bfyp persuaded the company you work for to purchase a million widgets from Acme but failed to tell your boss that your wife not only owned shares but was a director of Acme?

Yeah it would be a massive breach and wouldn't happen without notification but I've seen it in every company I have worked for.

For Hancock though that's not the case is it given NHS Wales bought them which he isn't responsible for as it's under labour?

[Bentley Bullet]

No, but, yeah but, no but, yeah but, no.......

[BillyStubbsTears]

But let's be honest it can't be prevented and there doesn't as yet appear to be anything seriously untoward. Every single person in the world will use relationships and contacts, we can't cut politicians off or businessmen from politics any more than we can a trade union.  As long as it is logged and transparent it's fine. On the face of it there is an issue there that requires an independent review doesn't it?

This being the point. It wasn't. It was only investigative journalism that unearthed it.

Cameron sent texts to Sunak's private number asking him to pull strings on behalf of Greensill.

Cameron had a pint with Hancock shortly before Greensill was awarded NHS contracts. None of that was logged or transparent.

[BillyStubbsTears]

While we are on about transparency, Hancock didn't register that his sister is a director of that NHS-contract firm.

The fact that the contract was from NHS Wales is absolutely irrelevant. All MPs have a responsibility to register any issues relating to the business dealings of them or close family and friends.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh! And it gets worse. MUCH worse.

Hancock's sister's company also got contracts from NHS England, while he was Health Secretary.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/exclusive-english-nhs-awarded-framework-deal-to-hancocks-familys-firm-two-years-ago/7029906.article?storyCode=7029906

This sort of stuff was cast iron, no questions, resignation material just a few years ago.

What's the betting he rides this out because...meh.

[Not Now Kato]

Oh! And it gets worse. MUCH worse.

Hancock's sister's company also got contracts from NHS England, while he was Health Secretary.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/finance-and-efficiency/exclusive-english-nhs-awarded-framework-deal-to-hancocks-familys-firm-two-years-ago/7029906.article?storyCode=7029906

This sort of stuff was cast iron, no questions, resignation material just a few years ago.

What's the betting he rides this out because...meh.

Of course he will.  And folks will continue to vote for the Tories too because a) they got Brexit done, [even though the country is worse of because of it], and b) they managed the successful rollout of the Covid 19 vaccine program, [even though it was the NHS that actually did this].
 
There's non so blind as them that don't want to see!

[BigH]

Struggling to find the number.

The amount that David Cameron requested as a CCFF loan to support Greensill in April last year. Can't see it mentioned anywhere.

It won't have been chickfeed as it was a scheme that provided for several hundred million quid to be issued to each borrower. Heavy duty stuff.

This would have been taxpayer money to support a bank that went bust less than 12 months later.

Credit to the Treasury for not falling for it.
 

[wilts rover]

So

- Cameron hired Greensill
- Greensill hired Cameron
- Cameron lobbied Sunak
- Cameron lobbied ministers
- Cameron lobbied civil servants
- PM announces inquiry
- Inquiry headed Nigel Boardman
- Who's a consultant at Slaughter & May
- Slaughter & May lobbied against tightening lobbying laws

https://twitter.com/paul__johnson/status/1382294223144292354

[wilts rover]

But let's be honest it can't be prevented and there doesn't as yet appear to be anything seriously untoward. Every single person in the world will use relationships and contacts, we can't cut politicians off or businessmen from politics any more than we can a trade union.  As long as it is logged and transparent it's fine. On the face of it there is an issue there that requires an independent review doesn't it?

After the Cash for Questions scandal under Major - the government brought in a set of standards (the Nolan Principles) that everyone involved in public sector is required to adhere too. For Governent Ministers these form part of the Ministerial Code. They are:

 1.1 Selflessness

Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest.

1.2 Integrity

Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships.

1.3 Objectivity

Holders of public office must act and take decisions impartially, fairly and on merit, using the best evidence and without discrimination or bias.

1.4 Accountability

Holders of public office are accountable to the public for their decisions and actions and must submit themselves to the scrutiny necessary to ensure this.

1.5 Openness

Holders of public office should act and take decisions in an open and transparent manner. Information should not be withheld from the public unless there are clear and lawful reasons for so doing.

1.6 Honesty

Holders of public office should be truthful.

1.7 Leadership

Holders of public office should exhibit these principles in their own behaviour. They should actively promote and robustly support the principles and be willing to challenge poor behaviour wherever it occurs.

It is on the Government website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-7-principles-of-public-life

For instance as a school governor, at the beginning of every meeting we are all asked if we have if we have any interest in anything on the agenda. For instance if I was still a builder there is no way I could discuss awarding buiding renovation contracts - as that would be a conflict of interests.

But Cameron and Hancock can attempt to influence giving taxpayers money to companies they have shares in and stand to benefit personally from - really!

[SydneyRover]

“Separately, Arbuthnot Banking Group’s political donations are entirely appropriate and are a matter of public record.”

hear, hear

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/16/greensill-inquiry-chairman-sits-on-board-of-private-bank-linked-to-tory-party

[SydneyRover]

''Political Links to Firm that Prompted Greensill Demise''

''Sam Bright reports how a former Downing Street director of communications, a diplomat and an ex-First Minister of Wales all have ties to the company that worked in tandem with Greensill''

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/04/15/political-links-to-firm-gupta-that-prompted-greensill-demise/

[Not Now Kato]

Wilts, Johnson fails on point 1.6 most days of the week!
 
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1294909995692294145/pu/vid/1280x720/w0b871dW-g2RgkYh.mp4?tag=10
 
But Tory voters approve of being lied to, of cronyism and of Johnson breaking the law!  It begs the question, just how far do the Tories have to go before people shout STOP!

[wilts rover]

Wilts, Johnson fails on point 1.6 most days of the week!
 
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1294909995692294145/pu/vid/1280x720/w0b871dW-g2RgkYh.mp4?tag=10
 
But Tory voters approve of being lied to, of cronyism and of Johnson breaking the law!  It begs the question, just how far do the Tories have to go before people shout STOP!

There are several posters on here better qualified to comment on that than me NNK. But I reckon we both know the answer...