European super League

[normal rules]

SM, with the PL other 14 meeting tomorrow, what course of action would you advocate?

[drfchound]

It has been inevitable for some years though that the ESL was going to happen.
Just like those builders who get planning refused but keep coming back with a revised set of plans until they get their own way.
The building goes ahead, some of the protesters even buy one of the houses and everyone gets used to things as they have become.

The protestors did their best but nothing could stop the development.

[normal rules]

Hound, this isn’t a new build, to use your analogy. They are knocking down Buckingham Palace to build a Burger King.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think we can all agree these owners need driving out of the game by any means.

It does hasten the need for the review of football ownership and finance, whether that be the German model or our own model.

The football pyramid will always generate income and whether that reduces that income for a period due to this than so be it as long as we are left with a fair system across the leagues.

Liverpool, Spurs, Man City Chelsea Man U, will continue to exist one way or another, even if it means the trading vehicles, names and owners of those clubs are eliminated and they have to start again.

It's not the fans fault, not the managers or players fault. Thankfully it seems everyone associated with the game and  governments will nip this in the bud whatever it takes.

[drfchound]

Hound, this isn’t a new build, to use your analogy. They are knocking down Buckingham Palace to build a Burger King.

They needed to get the permission to do it though and it appears that it eventually came  through.

[normal rules]

I don’t think any permission has been given. Those euro clubs involved have resigned their positions on the ECA. I suspect the English clubs involved will have to resign their positions in the respective authorities.
And where will players stand if the PFA don’t recognise the new league, or the managers association for that matter?
Who will ref these games? I can’t see FA refs being allowed to.

[sha66y]

Where was all this angst when the Premiership was set up? The only reason for it was to keep all the money from Sky for the "top" clubs, so what is the difference between that and the European club championship, it just means that the other 124 clubs left behind will suffer a massive shortfall in funds, I really could cry for them, hypocrites! And what about all these wailing fans? I bet they will be paying their subscription to Sky and watching all the games, you too have contributed to the demise of British football by buying into it.

The big difference is the abandoning of the principle of jeopardy and relegation.

That's new. That's why this is easily the most worst thing to ever happen in European football.

A European Super League where Real Madrid or Man Utd could go down and Liecester and Atalanta promoted might be acceptable.

So what!

What has all that super league malarkey got to do with Doncaster Rovers?

 

It may not seem relevant to TLOD. However If you read some of the links silent majority has posted, you will see that it very much affects clubs like ours.there is likely to be significantly less money trickling down the pyramid from tv rights.  Clubs will suffer.

It may well mean a reduction in income for Rovers.

There may well be ramifications for the national team, and international football in general. That will concern a lot of Rovers supporters.


Beyond that though, I don't see why anyone interested in football should not care about how the game is run more widely,

Rovers income reduction will mean we have to cut our cloth and become more savvy ..

National team and international football will survive ..

Being interested in football is a mere distraction and nothing compared to being interested in Doncaster Rovers....

I’m sure you would cancel your Sky/ BT Sports package immediately in protest should this go ahead?

[normal rules]

Rule L9 in the PL rules states no club can compete in anything other than one of the listed competitions IN SEASON.
It’s no coincidence that the PL season is about to end. When it does, the six will resign their position in the FA. The euro clubs have already left the ECA as they have differing authorities and rules.
The super league will start before August. They won’t be bound by our traditional football season dates

[silent majority]

You can almost read the outcome of the "fan-led" review now. Will just entrench the current status quo, as that will be presented as some kind of golden age worth preserving, rather than literally the problem that needs solving. Any review led by a Tory MP is not going to deliver any radical change. Doubtless plenty will make the case for change but you can predict now that bugger all will come of this.

I think you're missing the point! This is a fan led review based on the work we've done and presented to the FA and others.

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/fsa-statement-government-fan-led-review/

A government that wont let workers reps join company boards and allows the gig economy is going to support fans running £multi-billion football clubs. Oh aye...

I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at that from  anything I've posted. 

[drfchound]

I don’t think any permission has been given. Those euro clubs involved have resigned their positions on the ECA. I suspect the English clubs involved will have to resign their positions in the respective authorities.
And where will players stand if the PFA don’t recognise the new league, or the managers association for that matter?
Who will ref these games? I can’t see FA refs being allowed to.

It will be like the Kerry Packer thing that I mentioned earlier tonight.
Umpires went with that group as well as players.
They were all banned from the regular international cricket but eventually were allowed back.

[silent majority]

SM, with the PL other 14 meeting tomorrow, what course of action would you advocate?

I'm assuming that the EPL will advise all clubs signing up for the ESL that there is no place in the EPL for them.

[Filo]

Rule L9 in the PL rules states no club can compete in anything other than one of the listed competitions IN SEASON.
It’s no coincidence that the PL season is about to end. When it does, the six will resign their position in the FA. The euro clubs have already left the ECA as they have differing authorities and rules.
The super league will start before August. They won’t be bound by our traditional football season dates

When they resign frim the PL, there should be no return to the PL, they should be made to rejoin at the very bottom, after paying a multi billion pound bond

[drfchound]

SM, with the PL other 14 meeting tomorrow, what course of action would you advocate?

I'm assuming that the EPL will advise all clubs signing up for the ESL that there is no place in the EPL for them.

Good, it is nothing less than they deserve.
I say this as someone who has Liverpool as my “second team”.

[Chris Black come back]

I suspect the point he was making was that this is being chaired by a Tory MP and while there is doubtless lots of great work being undertaken by the FSF and many other bodies, this review by definition (chaired by a Tory MP and reporting to a Tory Government) is not going to change anything of substance.

As I mentioned before, the reason the game is in such a mess is that the spoils are split so unequally. If the cause of this review was to meet the threat of a small group of elite clubs threatening to in effect 'leave' the English system (I know they will be in the EPL, but that will no longer be a credible contest) because they are not getting enough cash into their fat gobs, this review is hardly likely to deliver anything that delivers a more equitable distribution of the riches of the game.

[silent majority]

It has been inevitable for some years though that the ESL was going to happen.
Just like those builders who get planning refused but keep coming back with a revised set of plans until they get their own way.
The building goes ahead, some of the protesters even buy one of the houses and everyone gets used to things as they have become.

The protestors did their best but nothing could stop the development.

Your analogy doesn't really work as this was a different set of builders. The last time it was the ECA, not this time.

Furthermore they still haven't got planning permission, nor have they got any land to build on, the land belongs to someone else.

I don't think I've ever seen supporters so closely aligned as they are with this issue. Fans of the big six have all been active today in telling their clubs that they won't sit idly by.

[River Don]

Where was all this angst when the Premiership was set up? The only reason for it was to keep all the money from Sky for the "top" clubs, so what is the difference between that and the European club championship, it just means that the other 124 clubs left behind will suffer a massive shortfall in funds, I really could cry for them, hypocrites! And what about all these wailing fans? I bet they will be paying their subscription to Sky and watching all the games, you too have contributed to the demise of British football by buying into it.

The big difference is the abandoning of the principle of jeopardy and relegation.

That's new. That's why this is easily the most worst thing to ever happen in European football.

A European Super League where Real Madrid or Man Utd could go down and Liecester and Atalanta promoted might be acceptable.

So what!

What has all that super league malarkey got to do with Doncaster Rovers?

 

It may not seem relevant to TLOD. However If you read some of the links silent majority has posted, you will see that it very much affects clubs like ours.there is likely to be significantly less money trickling down the pyramid from tv rights.  Clubs will suffer.

It may well mean a reduction in income for Rovers.

There may well be ramifications for the national team, and international football in general. That will concern a lot of Rovers supporters.


Beyond that though, I don't see why anyone interested in football should not care about how the game is run more widely,

Rovers income reduction will mean we have to cut our cloth and become more savvy ..

National team and international football will survive ..

Being interested in football is a mere distraction and nothing compared to being interested in Doncaster Rovers....

I’m sure you would cancel your Sky/ BT Sports package immediately in protest should this go ahead?

Never having approved of the Premier League, I've never had a Sky or BT sports package.

I've only followed the Premier league through Match of the Day highlights.

[silent majority]

I suspect the point he was making was that this is being chaired by a Tory MP and while there is doubtless lots of great work being undertaken by the FSF and many other bodies, this review by definition (chaired by a Tory MP and reporting to a Tory Government) is not going to change anything of substance.

As I mentioned before, the reason the game is in such a mess is that the spoils are split so unequally. If the cause of this review was to meet the threat of a small group of elite clubs threatening to in effect 'leave' the English system (I know they will be in the EPL, but that will no longer be a credible contest) because they are not getting enough cash into their fat gobs, this review is hardly likely to deliver anything that delivers a more equitable distribution of the riches of the game.

Tracey Crouch is a football supporter, and she is only the Chair. The Vice Chair is an ex- labour MP who also happens to be the deputy chair of the FSA. The FSA is also the secretariat.


Our proposals have had cross party support, and the Secretary of State today stated in Parliament that our demand for an independent regulator is definitely on the cards.

This is nothing like all the previous reviews into the state of football, its our demands and proposals that's up for discussion. If you've read our document Sustain The Game, its that that's being presented.


I feel confident about this.

[Chris Black come back]

I hope you do succeed and there is lots of good work being done by the FSA and many others. She is a former Minister in that department and no doubt wants to get a job back at some point, so isn't going to rock the boat. We all know what the problem is fundamentally, and there is no way this will result in the cash being shared out more fairly. Everything else is helpful no doubt but cannot shift the dial until this fundamental issue is addressed (which it never will be).

[drfchound]

It has been inevitable for some years though that the ESL was going to happen.
Just like those builders who get planning refused but keep coming back with a revised set of plans until they get their own way.
The building goes ahead, some of the protesters even buy one of the houses and everyone gets used to things as they have become.

The protestors did their best but nothing could stop the development.

Your analogy doesn't really work as this was a different set of builders. The last time it was the ECA, not this time.

Furthermore they still haven't got planning permission, nor have they got any land to build on, the land belongs to someone else.

I don't think I've ever seen supporters so closely aligned as they are with this issue. Fans of the big six have all been active today in telling their clubs that they won't sit idly by.

I am on the same side as you SM and support the same things.
I just feel that the ESL is going to happen and has been inevitable for quite a few years.

[selby]

  Hound, the West Indians that played in South  Africa were never welcomed back into test cricket, and the great south African side were never put back together again as a test team and the country were out of test cricket for quite a while lots of the players ending their careers in county cricket such as Eddie Barlow  and Barry Richards.
  What people need to accept is that football will take a knock in this country if the six are expelled, but will survive. the game at youth and non league levels are stronger than ever, but needs to be encouraged at the level of local leagues such as the Doncaster Senior League where because of teams centred on company sides going to the wall there are less teams for the youths to graduate to and lots drop out of the game as players when leaving school age.
  As for the top six clubs, there is nothing to stop them moving to other country's such as China, India,etc as they are no longer football clubs but business's and if the supporters here boycott them could be just picked up and moved on like American football clubs.
  The tail has wagged the dog for too long I am afraid, the train has left the station, does it make any difference to clubs like the Rovers, not really, we would just have to live on less and find our level like lots of others, we might even gain if teams like Derby and the Wednesday with their debt go bust which could be the bye product for a while while the game takes a reset.
  I can see the big TV companies being the biggest losers, in the digital world surely the clubs themselves will do the broadcasting direct to the fans especially in the far east and take the rewards.

[River Don]

Poor old Jurgen, he doesn't like the idea of a Superleague but he's just a manager. Those fans are understandably angry but they shouldn't do things that affect the team, he says.

Why not?

It doesn't matter where Liverpool finish in the league now. You've already made it to the Superleague. The actions of those annoyed scousers doesn't matter. You might as well pack in the domestic league this season, there's nothing to play for.

[wilts rover]

Mel Stride (Tory MP & chair of Treasury Select Committte) on Radio 5 - the goverment will not be legislating for fan ownership on the German model as this will be 'taking property away from people'.

[Metalmicky]

You can almost read the outcome of the "fan-led" review now. Will just entrench the current status quo, as that will be presented as some kind of golden age worth preserving, rather than literally the problem that needs solving. Any review led by a Tory MP is not going to deliver any radical change. Doubtless plenty will make the case for change but you can predict now that bugger all will come of this.

I think you're missing the point! This is a fan led review based on the work we've done and presented to the FA and others.

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/fsa-statement-government-fan-led-review/

A government that wont let workers reps join company boards and allows the gig economy is going to support fans running £multi-billion football clubs. Oh aye...

I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at that from  anything I've posted. 

It's not about what you posted SM - Wilts is on a personal crusade against the Tories - and will use any avenue possible.... 

[Metalmicky]

I don’t think any permission has been given. Those euro clubs involved have resigned their positions on the ECA. I suspect the English clubs involved will have to resign their positions in the respective authorities.
And where will players stand if the PFA don’t recognise the new league, or the managers association for that matter?
Who will ref these games? I can’t see FA refs being allowed to.

It will be like the Kerry Packer thing that I mentioned earlier tonight.
Umpires went with that group as well as players.
They were all banned from the regular international cricket but eventually were allowed back.

Here's hoping Trevor Kettle is watching......

[normal rules]

Everton have come out and made a club statement which makes good reading.

[River Don]

There are enough clubs of sufficient stature in England for a very healthy league.

Throw this lot out. We don't need them.

Edit. In fact for clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Leeds, West Ham, Leicester this should be seen as a golden opportunity.

And for clubs like Forest, Wednesday, Fulham, Palace, Southampton, Birmingham City an opportunity to establish themselves at a much higher level than they've been used to of late.

[Metalmicky]

I'd be interested to hear what happens to the individual team names...... for instance can Liverpool still call themselves Liverpool Football Club, or will they need to change to something else...?

I saw that at the final whistle last night Leeds tweeted that they had drawn with Merseyside Reds...... which I thought was funny 

[normal rules]

Someone has already alluded to the fact that local councils can object to the name of the town or city being used for football clubs.

[normal rules]

FIFA president not mincing his words. You are either in or out.

[River Don]

Juventus shares down 9% this morning...

Perhaps investors are beginning to wonder if its such a fabulous idea after all?