European super League

[ravenrover]

Word of the day is 'hugger-muggery' (16th century): secretive, clandestine behaviour for the purposes of deception.

[Beerseller]

Stolen from another site..... but I largely agree with this bloke.

The bit of it's that bothering me about the opposition to it is this idea that we want the clubs to actually stay.

For me the fight is to make sure they go. The cat is out of the bag and they've made their intention's clear. I don't think the six/twelve should compete in a domestic or CL/Europa fixture ever again. There is no competitive merit to playing these clubs.

This should go ahead and the 12 should go. Whatever is left of our sport is ours to re-shape. There is opportunity here for the rest of us. The one result I don't want out of this is for the grovelling, sycophantic press releases to accompany re-entry to the Premier League, as these wretched institutions twist themselves in knots trying to explain how it wasn't them all along and they never actually wanted to do it.

Thanks for the backhanded compliment MM but its actually all my own work except for a quick scroll through stats for the ECL & EPL on wikipedia. 

So, someone is plagiarising my work - had to happen at some point I suppose.

I perhaps didn't explain fully Beerseller - I stole the bit that I quoted mate - but I also agreed with what you said....

Apologies MM, full explanation accepted.  I raise a glass in your general direction.

[normal rules]

I’ve cast my eye over pl rules. Before even getting into the nitty gritty I reckon the pl have these clubs over a barrel for the very first part of the founding charter.

The Charter
The Chairmen’s Charter sets out our commitment to run Premier League football to the highest possible standards and with integrity.
We will ensure that our Clubs:

• Behave with the utmost good faith and honesty to each other, do not unjustly criticise or disparage one another and maintain confidences.

I’d say they are bang to rights on this.

[normal rules]

A lot of talk about rule L9 also. But look closely at it.

Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League;
L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League;
L.9.3. the F.A. Cup;
L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield;
L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or
L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member.

Three very important words. ...during the season.....
The dirty half dozen will have planned this ESL to start when the PL season ends. So I don’t think this will be classed as a breach.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I'm guessing there's plenty in the FA rules about conduct too.

However, I'm guessing fans of these clubs will tolerate their continued ownership as long as it doesn't effect their place in the EPL. As much as we would like fans to hound these people out of our game, it's likely to be swept under the carpet unless the much needed and urgent review, pushes them out.

[rich1471]

Edward Woodward has just resigned from Manchester United

[normal rules]

Edward Woodward has just resigned from Manchester United

. He was leaving at th3 end of the season anyway, but announcement brought forward to avoid leaks. He will be in post till end of season. He leaves amicably (with Glazers ) apparently.

[MachoMadness]

So the scab league is dead. But there simply has to be consequences for those 6 clubs now. There has to be.

[normal rules]

No word from manure or the bin dippers, Arse or Spurs yet.

[Campsall rover]

That was a 5 min wonder then.

Let us hope some good will come out of this shambles.
Independent regulator for a start.

[normal rules]

Some amendments in the pl rule book needed. It’s full of holes. Like a sieve.

[Mr1Croft]

This saga hasn't ended because the club's have suddenly realised the European Super League was morally wrong or against the spirit of the game. It dies because simply put, the finanical rewards on offer weren't enough to weather the backlash received. They will try it again in the future if changes aren't brought forward.

This was a cynical and carefully plotted coup, executed in the current climate knowing the authorities would struggle to challenge this financially after still suffering the effects of the worldwide pandemic.

I'd hope the 12 clubs involved are dealt with harshly. I'd be happy with 60 points deducted for each of the next 3 seasons by their respective leagues and 4 year ban from UEFA competitions. Maybe then they can remember what it feels like to work so hard and wait so long to reach the likes of the Europa League and Champions League.

But also, this saga highlights how little control fans, authorities or even the Government have on the game. Change is needed and soon. Fans of a club should own the controlling stake in the club in a similar fashion to the 50+1 rule in the Bundesliga. It is the only way to safeguard the game and stop anything like this ever happening again.

[Pliskin]

Well I hope I'm wrong but I imagine that these clubs will be welcomed back in as if nothing happened.

And those people in Uefa, the PL and in governments who threatened to stop it will breathe a sigh of relief that they don't actually have to do anything drastic.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/1384569035841490944

I was thinking during injury time tonight, as we were doing that bit of Jack Douglas defending.

I was thinking, "Could be worse. I could be a Chelsea fan. They don't have it easy. I hope their kleptocrat owner decides not to be a party to destroying the game and gives the poor cherubs something to be proud of."

[normal rules]

Unbelievable chat on Talksport this morning. Fans of Liverpool saying they will forgive if Henry spends more money to get more silverware.
They are all as bad as each other.
Another true scouser suggested that they let fans in for free for a season.
Jesus Christ.

[Metalmicky]

Latest from the ESL organisers on the BBC...

We're proposing a new European competition - ESL

While the European Super League may not come to fruition, the organisation still feels that the Champions League should no longer be Europe's top club competition. This statement has been released on behalf of the ESL today: “The European Super League is convinced that the current status quo of European football needs to change.

“We are proposing a new European competition because the existing system does not work. Our proposal is aimed at allowing the sport to evolve while generating resources and stability for the full football pyramid, including helping to overcome the financial difficulties experienced by the entire football community as a result of the pandemic. It would also provide materially enhanced solidarity payments to all football stakeholders.

“Despite the announced departure of the English clubs, forced to take such decisions due to the pressure put on them, we are convinced our proposal is fully aligned with European law and regulations as was demonstrated today by a court decision to protect the Super League from third party actions.”

[River Don]

I think it shows how desperate Real Madrid are, that they are clinging on to this.

I don't think the new Champions league format is ideal either but not for the reasons the Superleague thinks.

There is a tension between the need since Covid to grow revenue and still keep it open and entertaining.

The group stages currently aren't entertaining enough. I don't think the proposed changes will do it either.

The problem is Real and Barca have overreached themselves and their debt is crippling them. It would probably be best for European and Spanish football if they went bust.

[normal rules]

I’d like to know which “court” has made this decision. Since when did courts sit so quickly ?

[River Don]

I’d like to know which “court” has made this decision. Since when did courts sit so quickly ?

It was a Madrid court.

What authority they have over it, God knows.

[normal rules]

A Madrid court. Good grief. A court that has absolutely no authority over what happens in this country. Thankfully.

[DD]

Hypocrisy over Super League stinks
EXCELLENT article in todays Times by matthew syed - well worth read - sums it all up to me. 
It may be available on line if someone coukd paste link ?
“When these guys (UEFA ETC) , what they mean, i think, is they object to greed that cuts them out of the pie”

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Unbelievable chat on Talksport this morning. Fans of Liverpool saying they will forgive if Henry spends more money to get more silverware.
They are all as bad as each other.
Another true scouser suggested that they let fans in for free for a season.
Jesus Christ.

Yep, and this is the reason why things won't change quick enough as this episode is being swept under the carpet.

Has it really accelerated the need for the conclusion of the review of football governance?

Will we be talking about this next week?

[ravenrover]

Just read smething that sums this whole fiasco up
Down the pub, lets have a lads week end away yeah we're all up for that .............. till you get home and tell the Mrs

[silent majority]

Unbelievable chat on Talksport this morning. Fans of Liverpool saying they will forgive if Henry spends more money to get more silverware.
They are all as bad as each other.
Another true scouser suggested that they let fans in for free for a season.
Jesus Christ.

Yep, and this is the reason why things won't change quick enough as this episode is being swept under the carpet.

Has it really accelerated the need for the conclusion of the review of football governance?

Will we be talking about this next week?

Two things Baz,

Yes it has given the fan led review the extra shot in the arm that we've needed. Promises have been made about this for some time and it was due to start after the pandemic but now it's been pushed forward by the Secretary of State and has full parliamentary support. In the last 24 hours we've had meetings with the PM and Sir Keir Starmer. That has to be a great result.

I doubt that the average supporter will be talking about this next week, but we will. I wouldn't expect it to be everyday conversation, but then fan issues rarely are. A by product of the ESL debacle is that our arguments have been given extra weight and that's a good result. I know that the fan reps from the big six have been validated and that their clubs now know they will have to pay more attention to their views and opinions.

[Muttley]

Fans of a club should own the controlling stake in the club in a similar fashion to the 50+1 rule in the Bundesliga. It is the only way to safeguard the game and stop anything like this ever happening again.

I think I'm right in saying that the German 50+1 model came about because the German clubs were previously 100% fan-owned and were desperate for private investment so that they could be more competitive in Europe, so coming from completely the opposite angle.

Although fan ownership is a worthy ideal, where is the money going to come from ? - if you say that Liverpool FC are now worth £2 billion (and that's a conservative figure), then they would need to find 400,000 fans to each invest £5,000 or 2 million fans to invest £1,000.

I think the more achievable option is for more fan involvement in the governance of clubs through representation on the board etc.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Unbelievable chat on Talksport this morning. Fans of Liverpool saying they will forgive if Henry spends more money to get more silverware.
They are all as bad as each other.
Another true scouser suggested that they let fans in for free for a season.
Jesus Christ.

Yep, and this is the reason why things won't change quick enough as this episode is being swept under the carpet.

Has it really accelerated the need for the conclusion of the review of football governance?

Will we be talking about this next week?

Two things Baz,

Yes it has given the fan led review the extra shot in the arm that we've needed. Promises have been made about this for some time and it was due to start after the pandemic but now it's been pushed forward by the Secretary of State and has full parliamentary support. In the last 24 hours we've had meetings with the PM and Sir Keir Starmer. That has to be a great result.

I doubt that the average supporter will be talking about this next week, but we will. I wouldn't expect it to be everyday conversation, but then fan issues rarely are. A by product of the ESL debacle is that our arguments have been given extra weight and that's a good result. I know that the fan reps from the big six have been validated and that their clubs now know they will have to pay more attention to their views and opinions.

Cheers Martin,

When can we expect some recommendations to come out to give the wider football community something to chew on?

[Filo]

A British Superleague involving Rangers and Celtic is being mooted now, their hypocrisy knows no bounds
https://talksport.com/football/869708/british-super-league-plans-rangers-celtic-join-premier-league/

[BradwellRover]

One thing from this is how it’s increasingly obvious the absolute financial mess the big two in Spain are in.  Particularly with little likelihood of the usual state bailouts, given the impact of Covid.  Why the Premier League six joined this when as it stands they may dominate Europe for a decade, I have no idea.  Well, unless immediate money really is all that it’s about...

On the way we could do the German model here, I liked the suggestion from Ed Vasey that season ticket holders have ‘right of veto’ over certain matters. Building on that idea, you could get a ‘B class’ share with your purchase of a season ticket, that carries nominal capital value (£1).  The ownership of the club in real terms would barely change and private investment could flow, but those B shares could create a supermajority on certain issues (specified in law) that are deemed to potentially impact the fans and community grounding of the club (change of name, ground move, relocation, entering a new competition etc).

Matt

[normal rules]

A British Superleague involving Rangers and Celtic is being mooted now, their hypocrisy knows no bounds
https://talksport.com/football/869708/british-super-league-plans-rangers-celtic-join-premier-league/

If this happens the Scottish fa should ban any of them for playing for their national side also.

[drfchound]

A British Superleague involving Rangers and Celtic is being mooted now, their hypocrisy knows no bounds
https://talksport.com/football/869708/british-super-league-plans-rangers-celtic-join-premier-league/

If this happens the Scottish fa should ban any of them for playing for their national side also.

If it happens I suppose it would mean that fans at Scottish league matches wouldn’t have to worry about being close to another fan, thus reducing the COVID transmission risks.