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Author Topic: The Fan Led Review - the initial report  (Read 2488 times)

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silent majority

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The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« on July 22, 2021, 11:57:19 am by silent majority »
Tracey Crouch has tweeted out her initial report to the Secretary of State this morning which outlines her direction of travel with regard to the recommendations which will be included in her final report.

See here;

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1004891/TC_letter_to_Oliver_Dowden_Accessible_Format.pdf




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DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #1 on July 22, 2021, 12:42:52 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
Thanks for the heads up S_M.

IREF    Ha ha. Very good. Will look forward to reading it in full shortly.

idler

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #2 on July 22, 2021, 12:54:36 pm by idler »
I hope that this gets the discussions with the right people to start getting changes in place. They are long overdue.

Pancho Regan

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #3 on July 22, 2021, 01:21:42 pm by Pancho Regan »
An excellent letter, very impressive work so far. Thanks for sharing Martin.
 
She has obviously listened carefully to the views of the FSA and her recommendations that supporters' opinions are taken seriously are very encouraging.

Clearly a lot more to this lady than lingerie modelling and winning Strictly Come Dancing.

 ;)

Chris Black come back

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #4 on July 22, 2021, 01:26:36 pm by Chris Black come back »
Any progress is good progress but as David Conn has said, there is nothing firm on more equal sharing of money.

Am sure it will result in maybe some stronger regulation but the heart of the problem is the colossal disparity in wealth. Neither she or the Government is going to agree to any material and substantive change in that.

SydneyRover

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #5 on July 22, 2021, 01:27:17 pm by SydneyRover »
Thanks SM, TC has certainly raised many important issues in and it sounds encouraging, she is well qualified to drive this, it's worth a second read.

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #6 on July 22, 2021, 01:44:14 pm by silent majority »
Any progress is good progress but as David Conn has said, there is nothing firm on more equal sharing of money.

Am sure it will result in maybe some stronger regulation but the heart of the problem is the colossal disparity in wealth. Neither she or the Government is going to agree to any material and substantive change in that.

Interesting.

He called it a landmark proposal.

But it is short on detail, but that was intended. The real work will be done this summer and our proposals will be evident in the final report.

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #7 on July 22, 2021, 01:51:03 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
Are there any plans to keep this in the public domain, press, media etc., to show football fans and all its not been forgotten?

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #8 on July 22, 2021, 01:52:53 pm by silent majority »
There's still time for people to fill in the survey. It runs out later today;

https://dcms.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_5naM6vGayWbBJLE


silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #9 on July 22, 2021, 01:53:52 pm by silent majority »
Are there any plans to keep this in the public domain, press, media etc., to show football fans and all its not been forgotten?

Its a Fan Led Review Baz, so we'll be making sure that its progress is well documented.

Chris Black come back

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #10 on July 22, 2021, 01:55:22 pm by Chris Black come back »
Any progress is good progress but as David Conn has said, there is nothing firm on more equal sharing of money.

Am sure it will result in maybe some stronger regulation but the heart of the problem is the colossal disparity in wealth. Neither she or the Government is going to agree to any material and substantive change in that.

Interesting.

He called it a landmark proposal.

But it is short on detail, but that was intended. The real work will be done this summer and our proposals will be evident in the final report.


I don't think that is a unique view. Fair Game focused right in on this as well. There is some good stuff in there but very little on the huge elephant in the room. We are dealing largely with the symptoms if we look at her package, rather than the cause. Neither she or the Tory Government is going to want to start interfering with the wealth of the elite clubs.

Metalmicky

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #11 on July 22, 2021, 01:56:13 pm by Metalmicky »
Yep, good initial report - although shocked we have let a woman get involved in our game......................................... joke

To add (seriously) I would have also liked to see something more about a review of pay structures and agent involvement and payments therein.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 01:58:38 pm by Metalmicky »

graingrover

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #12 on July 22, 2021, 02:07:00 pm by graingrover »
Is the input from Germany available for information ?

RoversAlias

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #13 on July 22, 2021, 02:13:08 pm by RoversAlias »
I feel more optimistic having read this than I did when the panel for the review was named.

A lot of encouraging ideas in this letter and it is to be hoped that they can be developed and brought to fruition.

I also completed the survey that SM posted above.

Colin C No.3

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #14 on July 22, 2021, 03:16:38 pm by Colin C No.3 »
At last, we appear to have someone who 'understands' the game moreover, the importance of us the fans.

Thanks for sharing Martin. I look forward to seeing if all the bodies in the game get their 'act together' for the betterment of football.

Well done Tracey Crouch.

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #15 on July 22, 2021, 04:49:01 pm by silent majority »
Any progress is good progress but as David Conn has said, there is nothing firm on more equal sharing of money.

Am sure it will result in maybe some stronger regulation but the heart of the problem is the colossal disparity in wealth. Neither she or the Government is going to agree to any material and substantive change in that.

Interesting.

He called it a landmark proposal.

But it is short on detail, but that was intended. The real work will be done this summer and our proposals will be evident in the final report.


I don't think that is a unique view. Fair Game focused right in on this as well. There is some good stuff in there but very little on the huge elephant in the room. We are dealing largely with the symptoms if we look at her package, rather than the cause. Neither she or the Tory Government is going to want to start interfering with the wealth of the elite clubs.

I wouldn't be putting any faith in Fair Game, I've spent quite a bit of time with them, and they haven't been involved in the process at all. We've administered the FLR right from the beginning.

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #16 on July 22, 2021, 04:49:44 pm by silent majority »
Yep, good initial report - although shocked we have let a woman get involved in our game......................................... joke

To add (seriously) I would have also liked to see something more about a review of pay structures and agent involvement and payments therein.

Its all in there. But as I say its an initial report.

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #17 on July 22, 2021, 04:51:35 pm by silent majority »
Is the input from Germany available for information ?

Not that I'm aware of. But it didn't amount to much anyway. They are trying to find an alternative to their 50+1 model.

I should add that so far all the evidence has been in oral form, and each session recorded and minuted. There has also been an opportunity for all supporter groups to submit written testimonials which have not been inspected as yet, and that will have to be trawled through in the next few weeks.

The evidence I gave on behalf of the VSC and DRFC was via teams.



« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 06:21:01 pm by silent majority »

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #18 on July 22, 2021, 04:54:38 pm by silent majority »
At last, we appear to have someone who 'understands' the game moreover, the importance of us the fans.

Thanks for sharing Martin. I look forward to seeing if all the bodies in the game get their 'act together' for the betterment of football.

Well done Tracey Crouch.

I think she's done an excellent job so far. But she is a st holder at Spurs, and her husband is a Plymouth Argyle fan. The kids, she jokes, are growing up supporting THFC as she wears the trousers!

Chris Black come back

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #19 on July 22, 2021, 07:24:36 pm by Chris Black come back »
Any progress is good progress but as David Conn has said, there is nothing firm on more equal sharing of money.

Am sure it will result in maybe some stronger regulation but the heart of the problem is the colossal disparity in wealth. Neither she or the Government is going to agree to any material and substantive change in that.

Interesting.

He called it a landmark proposal.

But it is short on detail, but that was intended. The real work will be done this summer and our proposals will be evident in the final report.


I don't think that is a unique view. Fair Game focused right in on this as well. There is some good stuff in there but very little on the huge elephant in the room. We are dealing largely with the symptoms if we look at her package, rather than the cause. Neither she or the Tory Government is going to want to start interfering with the wealth of the elite clubs.

I wouldn't be putting any faith in Fair Game, I've spent quite a bit of time with them, and they haven't been involved in the process at all. We've administered the FLR right from the beginning.


Sorry, what I meant was that in their press release in response to the news today, Fair Game focused in on the absence of anything meaningful regarding wanting to deliver a fairer financial settlement for the game. Which is right, there was nothing.

If this is actively being discussed within the task force that she is leading, then that’s fine. But Fair Game were right to highlight the absence in the statement of anything on that - which understandably would lead people to believe that no change is going to be sought in what is at the very heart of the problem, and that a review led by a Tory MP reporting to a Tory Government is highly unlikely to be seeking any fairer redistribution of wealth.


normal rules

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #20 on July 22, 2021, 11:18:37 pm by normal rules »
Reports mean nothing until the core reason why clubs are going under is addressed.
Players wages.

Last year rovers paid Josh Sims 10 grand a WEEK!
Matt Smith 9k a week.
Ellery Balcombe 8300 a week.
The list goes on.

Sunderland paying 19k a week to one of their players.
It’s been going on for far far too many years.
Football continues to eat itself from within and the players are at the very centre of all of this.
How can we live in a world where a footballer gets paid more than a brain surgeon?
Utter , utter madness.
More clubs will fold.
Players wages will continue to rise.
More reports will be written.
Nothing will change.

If you asked Bury FC fans if they would have been happy to keep their club alive but with a bunch of kids from the local town playing for £50 a week each at the bottom of the pyramid, I think I know what they would  choose.


DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #21 on July 22, 2021, 11:23:53 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
For those who may not have seen this, an insight into the German model and a view of the English clubs ownership from over the water.

https://youtu.be/GebbvzMod_4

You wonder whether the way our clubs are structured financially, the situation is somewhat irretrievable however, where there's a will, there's a way surely.

You wonder whether the community assets of stadiums which have been plundered for commercial gain, can be compulsory purchased back to their respective communities and be restored as part of that Golden Share, maybe over a transition period.

There needs to be scope for organic growth and decline connected to performance that's still attractive to investors long term without the boom and bust consequences. Spending limits, limits on the types of investment and commercial revenues with concise rules that can't be circumvented.

As the fella in the video said, we need to change our mindset completely and decide what ALL clubs, fans, players etc., are willing to sacrifice for the long term good.

normal rules

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #22 on July 22, 2021, 11:25:31 pm by normal rules »
It makes me laugh these days when fans sing “he’s one of our own” .it’s not a regular occurrence is it? It’s more a rare novelty.
There was a time when all the local teams players were just that- local. That’s what gave the team their identity.
What do we have now? teams full of players ( at the higher level especially) from anywhere but local.
The fight to get the best player. The lure of more money to get the best team. Players values and wages going up and up and up.
Imagine Doncaster only recruiting players locally. Imagine the positive effect this would have on the local community and kids.  Imagine every team doing this.

River Don

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #23 on July 22, 2021, 11:39:47 pm by River Don »
When were professional clubs ever really that representative of the local community? English clubs were luring Scots to play for them in the 19th century.

Alright lower league clubs may have remained closer to their communities for longer but in all my time watching football since the 80s clubs have recruited players from all over the country.

NickDRFC

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #24 on July 23, 2021, 06:16:57 am by NickDRFC »
Reports mean nothing until the core reason why clubs are going under is addressed.
Players wages.

Last year rovers paid Josh Sims 10 grand a WEEK!
Matt Smith 9k a week.
Ellery Balcombe 8300 a week.

The list goes on.

Sunderland paying 19k a week to one of their players.
It’s been going on for far far too many years.
Football continues to eat itself from within and the players are at the very centre of all of this.
How can we live in a world where a footballer gets paid more than a brain surgeon?
Utter , utter madness.
More clubs will fold.
Players wages will continue to rise.
More reports will be written.
Nothing will change.

If you asked Bury FC fans if they would have been happy to keep their club alive but with a bunch of kids from the local town playing for £50 a week each at the bottom of the pyramid, I think I know what they would  choose.



Where did these figures come from? That might have been their salary at their parent club but surely we weren’t paying that much?

SydneyRover

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #25 on July 23, 2021, 06:54:33 am by SydneyRover »
Turning the game around after 160 years is going to be no mean feat but at least questions are being asked and there is someone at the top that is passionate about the game. I wouldn't expect to have everything resolved following this process and I would be even less confident that everyone is going to be happy about firstly the proposed changes and secondly the result of any changes that may be made. But there is still the opportunity to add your voice if I'm correct, so there is still time ........ if you think there is an elephant that requires some attention then of course you can take a gun or bananas however you think it should be dealt with but don't just stand on the side lines if you have some good ideas.

Rovers91

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #26 on July 23, 2021, 07:07:28 am by Rovers91 »
Reports mean nothing until the core reason why clubs are going under is addressed.
Players wages.

Last year rovers paid Josh Sims 10 grand a WEEK!
Matt Smith 9k a week.
Ellery Balcombe 8300 a week.
The list goes on.

Sunderland paying 19k a week to one of their players.
It’s been going on for far far too many years.
Football continues to eat itself from within and the players are at the very centre of all of this.
How can we live in a world where a footballer gets paid more than a brain surgeon?
Utter , utter madness.
More clubs will fold.
Players wages will continue to rise.
More reports will be written.
Nothing will change.

If you asked Bury FC fans if they would have been happy to keep their club alive but with a bunch of kids from the local town playing for £50 a week each at the bottom of the pyramid, I think I know what they would  choose.

I find it hard to believe we would have contributed that much to their wages.

drfchound

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #27 on July 23, 2021, 07:50:03 am by drfchound »
Players have played and made their names for clubs away from their home towns since way before the eighties.
Stanley Mathews, after a good spell with Stoke, really added to his fame at Blackpool in the fifties.
Duncan Edwards, from the midlands but played for Man Utd.in the fifties.
David Pegg from Donny played for Man auto£ in the fifties.
Loads more of course, too many to list here and the same happened through the sixties and seventies.
Others went even further, players like John. Charles and Gerry Hitchens even went to Italy.
Good Grief, even Kev Keegan had to go from Donny to Scunthorpe to get his chance………

silent majority

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #28 on July 23, 2021, 09:36:10 am by silent majority »
Any progress is good progress but as David Conn has said, there is nothing firm on more equal sharing of money.

Am sure it will result in maybe some stronger regulation but the heart of the problem is the colossal disparity in wealth. Neither she or the Government is going to agree to any material and substantive change in that.

Interesting.

He called it a landmark proposal.

But it is short on detail, but that was intended. The real work will be done this summer and our proposals will be evident in the final report.


I don't think that is a unique view. Fair Game focused right in on this as well. There is some good stuff in there but very little on the huge elephant in the room. We are dealing largely with the symptoms if we look at her package, rather than the cause. Neither she or the Tory Government is going to want to start interfering with the wealth of the elite clubs.

I wouldn't be putting any faith in Fair Game, I've spent quite a bit of time with them, and they haven't been involved in the process at all. We've administered the FLR right from the beginning.


Sorry, what I meant was that in their press release in response to the news today, Fair Game focused in on the absence of anything meaningful regarding wanting to deliver a fairer financial settlement for the game. Which is right, there was nothing.

If this is actively being discussed within the task force that she is leading, then that’s fine. But Fair Game were right to highlight the absence in the statement of anything on that - which understandably would lead people to believe that no change is going to be sought in what is at the very heart of the problem, and that a review led by a Tory MP reporting to a Tory Government is highly unlikely to be seeking any fairer redistribution of wealth.



It is in there, see here;

Navigating Financial Gaps 

Good governance must be allied to genuine financial reform. The Review will make
recommendations on more effective cost controls and financial management across the pyramid.
One of the most difficult issues in regard to Club financing and sustainability is the sharing of
revenue and how best to ensure financial structures within and between leagues are constructed to
enable clubs to successfully navigate the financial gaps between divisions which naturally arise as a
result of market forces. 
I believe that part of the solution is to encourage clubs, particularly at lower levels of the football
pyramid, to maximise the revenue generation opportunities from their existing assets. In this, I am
minded to recommend the removal of barriers to revenue generation in lower divisions, such as
allowing clubs to operate all weather pitches in League 2. 
So called ‘parachute payments’ are seen as both a symptom and cause of some of the difficulties in
ensuring club financial stability as clubs move, or aspire to move, or are threatened by a move,
between divisions. I am in no doubt they distort competition and drive unsustainable financial
activity but recognise that they do also assist the ambition of promoted clubs and stability of
relegated clubs. Accordingly, I will undertake further work over the summer on revenue flows within
the football pyramid with a view to a conclusive recommendation in the final report. 
In the meantime, I strongly urge the Premier League and the English Football League to reconsider
their approaches to finance flows between divisions and within their competitions work together to
seek a viable achievable solution.


And in her summing up here;

I believe this is the opportunity to address some of the very real challenges facing the English game
while at the same time building on its many strengths to make it stronger still. Stronger competition.
Stronger protections, regulation and governance. Stronger fan involvement. Stronger controls allied
to financial reform.


The financial reform we're looking for will be included, that I'm sure. It was raised so many times during the hearings so that it's become pretty much a given, just as the independent regulator has become a given as well.

That in itself will be the game changer.

Colin C No.3

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Re: The Fan Led Review - the initial report
« Reply #29 on July 23, 2021, 01:08:45 pm by Colin C No.3 »
Reports mean nothing until the core reason why clubs are going under is addressed.
Players wages.

Last year rovers paid Josh Sims 10 grand a WEEK!
Matt Smith 9k a week.
Ellery Balcombe 8300 a week.
The list goes on.

Sunderland paying 19k a week to one of their players.
It’s been going on for far far too many years.
Football continues to eat itself from within and the players are at the very centre of all of this.
How can we live in a world where a footballer gets paid more than a brain surgeon?
Utter , utter madness.
More clubs will fold.
Players wages will continue to rise.
More reports will be written.
Nothing will change.

If you asked Bury FC fans if they would have been happy to keep their club alive but with a bunch of kids from the local town playing for £50 a week each at the bottom of the pyramid, I think I know what they would  choose.



If you think for one minute that Rovers would have or could have committed themselves to paying those amounts in wages for 3 players, you are seriously deluded.

 

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