Unite Union

[Metalmicky]

Unite Union look set to appoint first female leader....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58320321

[GazLaz]

I’m a member. The consensus was that Turner would win the ballot.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Maybe there's some sanity coming back to the Labour movement. McCluskey was typical of the worst of the far left, getting his position in a vote with a pitiful turnout (12%), which was won through the organisation of committed hard left activists making sure they all voted. He was voted for by less than 6% of all Unite members, and in no way represented the rank and file. But that 6% made him the most powerful man in the Labour movement. His sort getting beaten is a step in the right direction.

[wesisback]

I must have been mistaken BST but McCluskey wasn't standing so he wasn't there to be beaten.
I voted for Sharon Graham, she ran a fantastic campaign that focused on diminishing workers rights that clearly resonated as even with a split left vote, Coyne managed to finish in third.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No wes but his protege was.

Personally, I'm delighted that Graham won. Politically, she stands pretty much exactly where I am.

[albie]

Good to hear you have thrown in the towel with Starmzy and his New Labour tribute band, BST.

Where are you on removal of financial support to Starmerama from Unite funds?

[SydneyRover]

I suppose if you give in to blackmailers you are beholden to them Albie

[SydneyRover]

Here is a good article about her but pointing out some problems within the union.

''New Unite boss Sharon Graham: doing what it says on the union tin
Highly skilled negotiator is motivated by ‘simple beliefs’ that unions exist to fight bad employers''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/25/new-unite-boss-sharon-graham-doing-what-says-union-tin

[jonrover]

Believe it or not, I actually work in the department Sharon Graham used to head up. She is a phenomenal woman with a brilliant mind and she is a relentless grafter. She will shake the union up and has already started by moving the GS office to the ground floor at Holborn to make it more accessible. Labour are in for some pain too, no more blank cheques - more payment by results and not before time.
She was not fancied by anyone apart from people in her inner circle who included some very well respected reps and activists. Even so, with the whole of the union Bureaucracy piling in behind Turner, it is still an astonishing victory. 

[SydneyRover]

Labour shouldn't get blank cheques but if any party needs to be shaken up using Unites money and power strategically it's the tories wouldn't you think.

[albie]

No Sydney, Unite are not funding the Tories so that is just not true.

If a union is funding a political party then it wishes to see the interests of its members reflected in party policy.
Labour have just dismissed staff members (presumably union members) because of reduced income, and replaced them with temporary contract staff under new terms.

As a trade unionist, you would look to take action to preserve the conditions of work and terms under which colleagues are removed from post. It would not be consistent to continue to support the organisation removing trade union rights from existing members, would it?

[jonrover]

Both the GMB and Unite are holding consultative ballots over the issue of potential compulsory redundancies.

[SydneyRover]

No Sydney, Unite are not funding the Tories so that is just not true.

If a union is funding a political party then it wishes to see the interests of its members reflected in party policy.
Labour have just dismissed staff members (presumably union members) because of reduced income, and replaced them with temporary contract staff under new terms.

As a trade unionist, you would look to take action to preserve the conditions of work and terms under which colleagues are removed from post. It would not be consistent to continue to support the organisation removing trade union rights from existing members, would it?

Apologies, my comment was badly written and I meant that the money should be used to target the tories, the list would be endless though.

The union should concentrate on improving the lot of it's members of course and take action. Withdrawing money from the labour party is it's democratic decision but if in doing that it gives the tories an edge then that should be considered too. In the longer term the tories will always give the below average wage earner the short straw, it's in there nature to look after themselves first.

[albie]

Here is what is going off Sydney;
https://labourlist.org/2021/08/unite-and-gmb-to-ballot-labour-staff-over-potential-compulsory-redundancies/

Starmer and his man Evans have created a fine mess.
If the ballot is for action against the Labour Party as a rogue employer, it could lead to legal action.

Unite and the GMB would not want to be in the position of bankrolling the people who they face in a dispute.

Lets see the result on Aug 31.

[SydneyRover]

Here is what is going off Sydney;
https://labourlist.org/2021/08/unite-and-gmb-to-ballot-labour-staff-over-potential-compulsory-redundancies/

Starmer and his man Evans have created a fine mess.
If the ballot is for action against the Labour Party as a rogue employer, it could lead to legal action.

Unite and the GMB would not want to be in the position of bankrolling the people who they face in a dispute.

Lets see the result on Aug 31.

Thanks Albie, it get that the unions nor any political party let alone the labour party want the current situation but how does the labour party resolve it's cash flow problems created fighting these issues? go into bankruptcy? As a responsible employer it must move to save the organisation and remaining jobs. The Labour party has just come off the worst defeat of any living member's lifetime and longer, there has to be a reorganisation and rethink of strategy, it cannot possibly consider continuing down the old route.

''Labour’s general secretary has said party finances have suffered due to lost members and using funds to deal with antisemitism cases. He told staff in July that reserves were down to just one month’s payroll''

[albie]

Sydney,

I think you are missing the point that the financial problems of Labour are due to the mismanagement by Starmer and Evans.

Expelling paid up members, and reneging on policy positions has deterred many supporters, and the income lost has not been replaced. The disgraced Mandelson, Epstein associate, spoke of attracting corporate sponsors, but it has not happened, even if you think that is desirable.

An employer organisation which looks to bypass due process in industrial relations while relying upon trade union funding has seriously lost its way.

Labour is close to trading unlawfully because it cannot meet its financial obligations. This is not the fault of those to be made redundant. It is the fault of Evans and Starmer.

The pay-offs for cases not pursued in court were in contravention of legal advice, which was that Labour would win if these cases had been heard.

You say
"The Labour party has just come off the worst defeat of any living member's lifetime and longer, there has to be a reorganisation and rethink of strategy, it cannot possibly consider continuing down the old route."

This is way off beam.
The votes received by Labour were MUCH better than in the dog days of Gordon Brown;
https://twitter.com/gletherby/status/1421861298095206401

Consistent decline under New Labour reversed, but the way these votes were allocated in particular seats changed. FPTP is not a fit for purpose system.

I know it is more difficult being across the world to keep in touch with what is happening here.
Maybe other info not from the Guardian is worth a look.

I read the Guardian myself, but I would not trust it on foreign policy or Labour Party issues.
It is often wrong on both.

[drfchound]

Thanks for that post albie.
It has enlightened me about some stuff within the Labour Party that I wasn’t aware of.
It also confirmed what I have thought about the Guardian for some time.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's the best defence I've yet heard of the 2019 debacle Albie.

"Yes Corbyn lost 2-4 but he scored more than when Brown lost 1-2."

[albie]

Yes, 2019 was a setback, I have said that before.
It was just not the calamity that centrist melts like to big up, when set against the longer term trend.

So what is your view of the Starmer performance, BST?

What do you reckon Unite/GMB should do?

Do you approve of expulsions of members for vague associations or retweets from the past, and if so what is your plan for raising revenue to offset loss of income?

No pathway to election success for a policy platform that supports unionism, and looks to pander to older voters in red wall seats...well, none that I can see!

Do tell us how this is all going to work...I would love to know!

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm going to opt out of answering Albie, if your idea of a sensible discussion is to describe anyone to the right of you as "centrist melts". You lot who brought this attitude into the party, failed electorally then f**ked off throwing insults have set the Labour movement back decades.

[albie]

Righto....I will withdraw the "melts" bit.
It was not intended to insult you, but there we are.

Now that is out of the way, would you care to reply...or don't you have one to hand?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's actually the "centrist" jibe that is most revealing.

[Ldr]

As someone who hasn’t traditionally been a Labour voter it seems the more away from the left and union influences the party moves, the more appealing to the general electorate it becomes

[albie]

But centrist is how Starmer and crew describe themselves, I don't know how else to characterise them.
Anyway, this is just deflection into whataboutery!

No answers or theories then?

[scawsby steve]

As someone who hasn’t traditionally been a Labour voter it seems the more away from the left and union influences the party moves, the more appealing to the general electorate it becomes

That wasn't the case in the last GE though, Ldr. Labour's centrist stance on Brexit, aligning themselves with the Lib Dems, Greens, and SNP in pushing for a second referendum, cost them heavily.

Starmer was part of all that, and I doubt it will be forgotten.

[tyke1962]

As someone who hasn’t traditionally been a Labour voter it seems the more away from the left and union influences the party moves, the more appealing to the general electorate it becomes

I expect a comfortable Labour victory at the next election then .

That's right isn't it ?

[jonrover]

Labours finances are of Starmer and Evans' own making.
Paying out ex staffers who did the expose with the BBC panorama programme. Wave after wave of socialists under suspension and likely to be expelled, membership revenue thus slashed
Unions looking at funding and affiliations.

All the while the Forde report remains in Starmer's bottom drawer.

A cynical man might assume this is deliberate.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney,

I think you are missing the point that the financial problems of Labour are due to the mismanagement by Starmer and Evans.

Expelling paid up members, and reneging on policy positions has deterred many supporters, and the income lost has not been replaced. The disgraced Mandelson, Epstein associate, spoke of attracting corporate sponsors, but it has not happened, even if you think that is desirable.

An employer organisation which looks to bypass due process in industrial relations while relying upon trade union funding has seriously lost its way.

Labour is close to trading unlawfully because it cannot meet its financial obligations. This is not the fault of those to be made redundant. It is the fault of Evans and Starmer.

The pay-offs for cases not pursued in court were in contravention of legal advice, which was that Labour would win if these cases had been heard.

You say
"The Labour party has just come off the worst defeat of any living member's lifetime and longer, there has to be a reorganisation and rethink of strategy, it cannot possibly consider continuing down the old route."

This is way off beam.
The votes received by Labour were MUCH better than in the dog days of Gordon Brown;
https://twitter.com/gletherby/status/1421861298095206401

Consistent decline under New Labour reversed, but the way these votes were allocated in particular seats changed. FPTP is not a fit for purpose system.

I know it is more difficult being across the world to keep in touch with what is happening here.
Maybe other info not from the Guardian is worth a look.

I read the Guardian myself, but I would not trust it on foreign policy or Labour Party issues.
It is often wrong on both.

Albie, I'm fairly sure you making the wrong call here Albie, if winning an election is the prime target the ultimate goal and mismanagement is losing by the biggest margin then I reckon you have nailed it.

[albie]

So what elements of the current Starmer strategy are likely to lead to winning an election, Syd?

Labour are not going to be in a position to contest an election with the present mismanagement.
Either because they will not have the finance, or because they will be diminished in numbers to do basic canvassing.

Or both at the same time!

With shit like this going off, what is going to be left;
https://labourhub.org.uk/2021/08/27/such-practices-would-not-be-tolerated-in-the-workplace-nor-in-the-justice-system/amp/

It pains me to say it, as a long time member, but the party is on the skids.

[SydneyRover]

So what elements of the current Starmer strategy are likely to lead to winning an election, Syd?

Labour are not going to be in a position to contest an election with the present mismanagement.
Either because they will not have the finance, or because they will be diminished in numbers to do basic canvassing.

Or both at the same time!

With shit like this going off, what is going to be left;
https://labourhub.org.uk/2021/08/27/such-practices-would-not-be-tolerated-in-the-workplace-nor-in-the-justice-system/amp/

It pains me to say it, as a long time member, but the party is on the skids.

Albie, I think you are forgetting that none of the strategy of the previous two campaigns worked and things got disastrously worse under that management team.

If the Corbyn team had shown they were heading in the right direction than they may have gotten another turn on the dance floor instead of being used to wipe it.

If those in the party want to disrupt and spoil because they have not been given another go then what should the present management do?

If those on the far left supported the new leadership team to a win then the reward could be someone further left, Raynor, deputy leader, as leader in the future and more movement to the left. Or they could ensure yet another tory win at the next election, the choices are stark.

Please tell me you have thought about this or a similar scenario.