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Author Topic: Omar Bogle  (Read 10057 times)

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albie

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #30 on September 13, 2021, 10:33:36 pm by albie »
Just consider if this happened to you.
You go in to work as usual, and a new boss says I don't think you are up to it, you will have to work down in the shed, and have no interaction with colleagues.......not very nice is it, and a form of bullying!

The reason a player might choose to not move on does not have to be about money, or football for that matter.

Maybe his partner does not want to move, perhaps the kids have just settled at school.
Lots of non football reasons to consider.

Rovers are an employer of these players, and need to treat them fairly and with respect to the employment rules. Some folk seem to think that they can moved out against what they see as their best interests....again, put yourself in their shoes for a minute.



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Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #31 on September 13, 2021, 10:38:12 pm by Jonathan »
My loyalty lies squarely with my football club ahead of two players that have been nothing short of dreadful since joining, and get paid more in a week than lots of people earn in a month.

albie

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #32 on September 13, 2021, 10:46:55 pm by albie »
It is not about loyalty, Jonathan.

For me, it is about fairness.

There is no good reason why both could not train as part of the group, but on the understanding that the manager does not think that they fit with his plans.

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #33 on September 13, 2021, 10:56:40 pm by DonnyBazR0ver »
It is not about loyalty, Jonathan.

For me, it is about fairness.

There is no good reason why both could not train as part of the group, but on the understanding that the manager does not think that they fit with his plans.

That can only be the managers decision. He has to determine whether they would be a help or a hindrance in training.  If he has made his decision that neither will play again, then he probably doesn't want to risk them not pulling their weight in training.

Only speculation of course but the group who will feature have to come first.

BobG

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #34 on September 13, 2021, 11:01:21 pm by BobG »
I'm probably being a bit dim here, and I haven't seen the offending post, but from what's been quoted on hereI can't see that it's disrespectful in the slightest. He's had a good day at the office with another guy? What's wrong with saying that?

BobG

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #35 on September 14, 2021, 12:11:35 am by BillyStubbsTears »
My loyalty lies squarely with my football club ahead of two players that have been nothing short of dreadful since joining, and get paid more in a week than lots of people earn in a month.

It was the club that offered them contracts which pay them that amount. The club is 100% at fault here, both for signing  the players then attempting to bully them out of their contracts. Terrible initial decisions, followed by a thoroughly unprofessional publicising of actions that should remain behind closed doors. Think what image this projects to potential future signings.

RoversAlias

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #36 on September 14, 2021, 01:34:48 am by RoversAlias »
I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.

Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.

Well said.

I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.

At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.

Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.

Why should Bogle just accept any offer to play that comes his way? If you got told by your employer you weren't up to your job, but another company will pay you much less to do the same thing and you should go there for their benefit, would you do it?

Bogle was given a contract by Doncaster Rovers to play in League One. 6 months prior he was a Championship player. Yet now some of our fans think he should go to Grimsby in the National League just to play, or join a League Two side on what must be far less money. He's done nothing to deserve being disrespected by a section of our fanbase, other than not play well for us.

Upton Rover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #37 on September 14, 2021, 06:37:38 am by Upton Rover »
The whole situation is a shameful matter, RW as not managed the situation correct, he’s been bullish over the situation with OB

Rovers91

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #38 on September 14, 2021, 07:09:35 am by Rovers91 »
I can understand why they are acting like they are when they have been publicly called out by the manager and not wanted. Wellens and the club have handled this situation badly and I think the only way out of it will be to cough up and pay them off and come to a mutual agreement.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #39 on September 14, 2021, 07:54:00 am by Chris Black come back »
I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.

Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.

Well said.

I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.

At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.

Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.

Why should Bogle just accept any offer to play that comes his way? If you got told by your employer you weren't up to your job, but another company will pay you much less to do the same thing and you should go there for their benefit, would you do it?

Bogle was given a contract by Doncaster Rovers to play in League One. 6 months prior he was a Championship player. Yet now some of our fans think he should go to Grimsby in the National League just to play, or join a League Two side on what must be far less money. He's done nothing to deserve being disrespected by a section of our fanbase, other than not play well for us.

I’ve got some sympathy with this. Dropping to non league would be a big reputation hit for Omar. It is one thing staying in league football at League Two but dropping from Championship to non league in a year is pretty bad. He did get offered a League Two gig though which he seemingly turned down. That I think is less defensible especially if it was a big club like Bradford, as rumoured.

ditch_drfc

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #40 on September 14, 2021, 09:53:34 am by ditch_drfc »
He’s taking the piss.

Darren Moore did a right job on us didn’t he?

Easy to blame Darren Moore (and I'd like to) and pretend the problem has sorted itself, but doesn't blame lay at our wider talent acquisition team? Of which DM was only a part.. 

Bezza

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #41 on September 14, 2021, 10:04:52 am by Bezza »
Bogle and Williams have contracts that they want to continue.....they are fully within their rights to do so.

Leaving them out of the squad, or asking them to train away from the group is very poor management from DRFC.

Some on here think that the club should punish players for keeping to the contract DRFC signed them under....this is nonsense on stilts.

In any other industry this would be seen as an attempt at constructive dismissal, and would provoke trade union involvement.

I am not commenting on whether the deal offered by other clubs should have been accepted, because none of us know what was on offer. Easy to say that they should have left without knowing the details.
thats right albie ,you can't just bully people out,


i_ateallthepies

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #42 on September 14, 2021, 10:11:25 am by i_ateallthepies »
I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.

Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.

Well said.

I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.

At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.

Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.

Why should Bogle just accept any offer to play that comes his way? If you got told by your employer you weren't up to your job, but another company will pay you much less to do the same thing and you should go there for their benefit, would you do it?

Bogle was given a contract by Doncaster Rovers to play in League One. 6 months prior he was a Championship player. Yet now some of our fans think he should go to Grimsby in the National League just to play, or join a League Two side on what must be far less money. He's done nothing to deserve being disrespected by a section of our fanbase, other than not play well for us.

At any time since he's been at the Rovers has Bogle ever looked like a Championship footballer or even a Lg1 footballer?  He is in a position of his own making, He hasn't even remotely done his job on the pitch since DM left.  Richie Wellens, seeing the situation with Bogle when he came tried the supporting approach with him and gave him enough chances to prove himself and has arrived at the decision that he is either not good enough or is not making the effort.  The club has put in the effort to get Bogle an Williams loan offers and no club in the EFL has shown any interest, that sort of suggests to me that they too don't rate them as good enough.

And as for requiring them to train alone, BobG has explained the process likely to have been followed by the club.

sedwardsdrfc

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #43 on September 14, 2021, 10:21:49 am by sedwardsdrfc »
People were wanting the club to give Joe Wright a contract and pay him for a year after he got injured and turned us down. Out of fairness and because the club is morally sound. Applied to Bogle and Williams the tables have turned.

We've dealt with it poorly partly because of desperation partly because Wellens is so open in interviews. As others have said in any other workplace DRFC are firmly in the wrong, morally at least if not legally.

I don't think a moan on social media is as bad as what has been communicated about the players through official channels either. Did he lie in any of the posts? seems a genuine reflection of their workday to me... Not saying they are saints who add value to the club but we have obligations to them as employees that doesn't change no matter how useless they are.

SydneyRover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #44 on September 14, 2021, 10:37:37 am by SydneyRover »
He’s taking the piss.

Darren Moore did a right job on us didn’t he?

Easy to blame Darren Moore (and I'd like to) and pretend the problem has sorted itself, but doesn't blame lay at our wider talent acquisition team? Of which DM was only a part..

managers live and die on how their players perform and are hardly likely to want to buy a player that isn't going to perform.

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #45 on September 14, 2021, 12:20:03 pm by Jonathan »
Clearly there are some very different opinions on this and that’s fine, I’m not stubborn or thick enough not to recognise the points people have made about how the club could have handled this differently / better. But ultimately I stand by my view that Bogle and Williams are taking the piss out of the club a bit, and that’s what riles me. There are obviously a lot of nicer people than me out there that are more bothered than I can bring myself to be about the effect it’s having on two players that have done so little for us. Is it their fault that we gave them the contracts? Of course not. But Wellens was asking things of Bogle and he just wasn’t doing it - and that’s been there for all of us to see. He doesn’t make the runs he’s asked to, and he doesn’t look interested. So I get why Wellens is frustrated that the players and their agents have shown no desire to find a better environment elsewhere.

Could the club and Wellens have handled it better? Yes I’d have to admit they could have. But, irrespective of that, I’m more inclined to back them than this pair of time wasters.

RugbyRover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #46 on September 14, 2021, 12:42:37 pm by RugbyRover »
When I was at school I spent a couple of weeks studying in a maths group. The other pupils were a lot smarter than me and it become apparent I couldn't keep up with them and do what the teacher was asking.

After a chat with the teacher it was agreed that I would move to a less demanding course.

I wasn't bullied, I just found my level.

I think that's what's happened to these two lads. They haven't been bullied or exiled, they just found their level.  :)


MachoMadness

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #47 on September 14, 2021, 12:47:55 pm by MachoMadness »
A lot of assumptions being made about the conduct of the club. We don't know that Bogle and Williams have done wrong. But we don't know that the club have, either. How do we know Bogle and Williams haven't been sacking off training, or that they didn't conduct themselves poorly in the transfer negotiations? We don't. There could be a very good reason they're being frozen out - we just don't know, and probably never will.

normal rules

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #48 on September 14, 2021, 12:55:35 pm by normal rules »
Can you image the furore if RW kept the dirty laundry in the dressing room and Bogle wasn’t playing. Can you imagine the questions from fans. He is not injured, why is he not playing? Etc etc.
RW was caught between a rock and a hard place. A no win situation.
It is unsavoury. No one wants this situation. If bogle wants to play football ( which you have to question) then a lot is down to him.square peg round hole perhaps ?
Either way he is getting paid, whilst the football club get no return for their outlay. Instead there is bad feeling and this is doing no one any good.
I suspect there is much more to this than him just not suiting wellens plans. I suspect there have been words said and bad feeling generated which no one will recover from. Why else would you not play a fit player, irrespective of how incompatible his play is to wellens plans.
Wellens was shown the door by Ferguson not too many years ago. He thought he could do the same with Bogle. It has not worked out.
I can only imagine how that conversation went between the two of them. You are not good enough for my plans so I think it’s best for all of you move on? Is bogle the sort of person to take this on the chin, perhaps not?
And here we have a player now who is proclaiming he has been exiled.

Pancho Regan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #49 on September 14, 2021, 12:59:50 pm by Pancho Regan »
Clearly there are some very different opinions on this and that’s fine, I’m not stubborn or thick enough not to recognise the points people have made about how the club could have handled this differently / better. But ultimately I stand by my view that Bogle and Williams are taking the piss out of the club a bit, and that’s what riles me. There are obviously a lot of nicer people than me out there that are more bothered than I can bring myself to be about the effect it’s having on two players that have done so little for us. Is it their fault that we gave them the contracts? Of course not. But Wellens was asking things of Bogle and he just wasn’t doing it - and that’s been there for all of us to see. He doesn’t make the runs he’s asked to, and he doesn’t look interested. So I get why Wellens is frustrated that the players and their agents have shown no desire to find a better environment elsewhere.

Could the club and Wellens have handled it better? Yes I’d have to admit they could have. But, irrespective of that, I’m more inclined to back them than this pair of time wasters.

100% agree with that Jonathan.

People making comparisons to how Bogle would have been dealt with in any other normal employment environment are a bit wide of the mark IMO. It's not realistic to compare the world of professional football with the 'normal' world of work.

For example, in the company I work for, if we have an employee who is not performing to the required standards, that person would be taken aside and spoken to.
It would be explained carefully and thoroughly to him / her what was expected, and where he / she was falling short. Any assistance or clarification by the company to help the employee understand what was expected and what he / she needed to do to meet the required standards would be discussed and offered.

So far, I think that's what appears to have happened between RW and Bogle.

If the employee still failed to meet the standards required, a disciplinary process would commence. Ultimately, this could lead to dismissal and termination of the employee's contract if he / she failed to improve or to carry out reasonable instructions.
RW isn't able to take that particular route with Bogle because it appears that being crap isn't grounds for termination of contract without the Club paying out a large termination settlement.

RW / DRFC have actually gone further than my company would in these circumstances because Bogle has been offered alternative employment at another 'company' - we wouldn't go that far!

And if the employee decided to have a sly 'pop' at the company on Social Media, that would be (and indeed has been) seen as a disciplinary matter.

Granted, we wouldn't speak to the media about the employee but that's another obvious difference between the world of professional football and the 'real' world of employment.

roversdude

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #50 on September 14, 2021, 01:00:33 pm by roversdude »
To be fair they’ve done nothing wrong, I’ve more sympathy with Williams as he was living the dream, don’t think he’s let us down effort wise but just not a L1 player.
Can’t see where Bogle is (assuming he wants to) going to resurrect his career

sedwardsdrfc

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #51 on September 14, 2021, 01:06:02 pm by sedwardsdrfc »
They are taking the piss in that they could have moved somewhere that wants them but chose not too. Most of us would rather be where we are wanted and wouldn’t hold the club to ransom. But they also haven’t done anything wrong that we know of.

Lesson to learn is don’t sign players who ain’t good enough or if they are a gamble which they 100% were a year contract is enough. I know people get on the clubs back about short contracts but in certain situations it’s very understandable I think we all know that.

SydneyRover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #52 on September 14, 2021, 01:15:03 pm by SydneyRover »
Read the bogle thread in the rumour mill, few were thinking of risk then

StocksArmy

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #53 on September 14, 2021, 01:42:07 pm by StocksArmy »
To say the club are to blame is shocking. The only thing the club is guilty of is instilling belief in a manager who in turn believed would get a tune out of the players in question. May I add that he didnt get a tune out of either of them before he up and left. Now for our fans..... there was barely a single one of you who gave them the time of day after a handful of performances. Fast forward to a hat full and every single one of us can agree that they are not good enough. Bogle is not only out of his depth but, he consistently brings sweet f all to the team and thinks nothing of showing no desire yet reomoving him from the first team is a disgrace. Why? Ive read a few comments on his performance at Accrington being OK.... Are you joking me or are you using this as a wind up? Im fully behind the club on their stance on this. If any of us went to work and didnt put effort in we would all be out on our arse and Omar Bogle falls bang into that. Its just easier to hide on a football pitch in a team who lose every game. But, because hes on a contract he is allowed to do what he wants it seems.

Bailey Vickerage

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #54 on September 14, 2021, 01:46:15 pm by Bailey Vickerage »
Apparently Bogle was willing to go somewhere on deadline day but it all depended on another player leaving from the other club and it didn’t happen. Also, when Paul Hurst enquired about him, apparently he never heard about the enquiry.

StocksArmy

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #55 on September 14, 2021, 01:56:10 pm by StocksArmy »
Apparently Bogle was willing to go somewhere on deadline day but it all depended on another player leaving from the other club and it didn’t happen. Also, when Paul Hurst enquired about him, apparently he never heard about the enquiry.

I reckon the 2nd part of that is complete BS

Spud

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #56 on September 14, 2021, 02:28:08 pm by Spud »
Whatever the rights & wrongs of what's gone before, slagging your employer off on social media while on full pay for not doing your job is taking the piss, & for me is probably indicative of their attitudes in general, surely they've breached their contracts somehow.

Bogle has had chances & proved either lazy or just not good enough, Williams I think the latter, his effort on the pitch isn't in doubt for me.

As for whoever mentioned the comparison with how we felt about Joe Wright after his injury, well if you can't see how he doesn't compare to these two then I'm not gonna spell it out...

idler

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #57 on September 14, 2021, 02:30:59 pm by idler »
If I was a player and knew that there was no future for me at a club I would want to get away to somewhere that I could play football on a regular basis and show my club what they were giving up while at the same time hopefully impressing other clubs.
I'm sure that my contracted club would be make up any difference in wages as well.
Eoin Doyle was costing Bradford City a fortune in wages when he was on loan at Swindon and scoring for fun. They recalled him in the January but he said he didn't want to be back there and went back to Swindon after about three games without a goal.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #58 on September 14, 2021, 03:00:34 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Clearly there are some very different opinions on this and that’s fine, I’m not stubborn or thick enough not to recognise the points people have made about how the club could have handled this differently / better. But ultimately I stand by my view that Bogle and Williams are taking the piss out of the club a bit, and that’s what riles me. There are obviously a lot of nicer people than me out there that are more bothered than I can bring myself to be about the effect it’s having on two players that have done so little for us. Is it their fault that we gave them the contracts? Of course not. But Wellens was asking things of Bogle and he just wasn’t doing it - and that’s been there for all of us to see. He doesn’t make the runs he’s asked to, and he doesn’t look interested. So I get why Wellens is frustrated that the players and their agents have shown no desire to find a better environment elsewhere.

Could the club and Wellens have handled it better? Yes I’d have to admit they could have. But, irrespective of that, I’m more inclined to back them than this pair of time wasters.

The last time Bogle appeared for us, he had a 35 minute cameo at Accrington and looked as good as any layer we had on the pitch (admittedly, not a high hurdle). He was making runs, winning challenges, holding up the ball and bringing other players into the game.

Based on that appearance, singling him out as "taking the piss" or not performing is  a strange one.

My interpretation of what happened is that Bogle has angered the club management by not taking the option of leaving, and he's been effectively disciplined for that. Which is fine, except that much of this has been played out in the public domain, which in my opinion is thoroughly unprofessional.

bpoolrover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #59 on September 14, 2021, 03:13:57 pm by bpoolrover »
To say the club are to blame is shocking. The only thing the club is guilty of is instilling belief in a manager who in turn believed would get a tune out of the players in question. May I add that he didnt get a tune out of either of them before he up and left. Now for our fans..... there was barely a single one of you who gave them the time of day after a handful of performances. Fast forward to a hat full and every single one of us can agree that they are not good enough. Bogle is not only out of his depth but, he consistently brings sweet f all to the team and thinks nothing of showing no desire yet reomoving him from the first team is a disgrace. Why? Ive read a few comments on his performance at Accrington being OK.... Are you joking me or are you using this as a wind up? Im fully behind the club on their stance on this. If any of us went to work and didnt put effort in we would all be out on our arse and Omar Bogle falls bang into that. Its just easier to hide on a football pitch in a team who lose every game. But, because hes on a contract he is allowed to do what he wants it seems.
people at the club are to blame as they signed the players, no one can slag Williams off for lack of effort as he rarely plays to see if he does or not,in saying that he has been poor the times he has playe, bogle as bst has said the last time he played was probably his best game for us, they should be training as normal and just not picked for matches with nothing in public said

 

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