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Author Topic: Omar Bogle  (Read 10048 times)

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Lesonthewest

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #60 on September 14, 2021, 03:58:27 pm by Lesonthewest »
Just consider if this happened to you.
You go in to work as usual, and a new boss says I don't think you are up to it, you will have to work down in the shed, and have no interaction with colleagues.......not very nice is it, and a form of bullying!

The reason a player might choose to not move on does not have to be about money, or football for that matter.

Maybe his partner does not want to move, perhaps the kids have just settled at school.
Lots of non football reasons to consider.

Rovers are an employer of these players, and need to treat them fairly and with respect to the employment rules. Some folk seem to think that they can moved out against what they see as their best interests....again, put yourself in their shoes for a minute.

What if said manager said he'd give you a chance to prove yourself & said employee didn't do as asked of him, & tossed it off, sorry I'm with Wellens on this one.



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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #61 on September 14, 2021, 04:07:08 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Like I say. Watch the last half hour of the Accrington match. Tell me Bogle is top of the list for not doing his job.

But that is irrelevant anyway. The problem is not the club deciding that Bogle has no future with us. It's the way they have publicly handled the issue.

Lesonthewest

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #62 on September 14, 2021, 04:16:00 pm by Lesonthewest »
When he arrived I thought he started really well, holding up the ball, making runs & giving defenders problems. Since then he has turned into one of THE worst centre forwards I have seen, & I'm afraid his half hour at Accrington won't change that, he flattered to deceive.

normal rules

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #63 on September 14, 2021, 04:52:54 pm by normal rules »
Like I say. Watch the last half hour of the Accrington match. Tell me Bogle is top of the list for not doing his job.

But that is irrelevant anyway. The problem is not the club deciding that Bogle has no future with us. It's the way they have publicly handled the issue.

Genuine question. how should this have been handled?  If wellens chose not to play him, and make no public announcement of his feelings regarding the player, what then?
I’m at a loss as to how Wellens and or the club should/ could have managed this situation and player. It’s not like he would be suitable for an action plan is it.
“Play better football. Do as I ask etc etc”
Something has happened behind the scenes here since the last time Bogle played and it is not just down to how he plays (or not as the case may be) . Im convinced of this.
Wellens would have had to have lied to fans or created a complete fake story around this to cover the truth that he simply does not want him to play for drfc anymore. The rumour mill would have been rife.
Thankfully this is not a common occurrence, at least not at Rovers.

RugbyRover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #64 on September 14, 2021, 05:18:18 pm by RugbyRover »
To say the club are to blame is shocking. The only thing the club is guilty of is instilling belief in a manager who in turn believed would get a tune out of the players in question. May I add that he didnt get a tune out of either of them before he up and left. Now for our fans..... there was barely a single one of you who gave them the time of day after a handful of performances. Fast forward to a hat full and every single one of us can agree that they are not good enough. Bogle is not only out of his depth but, he consistently brings sweet f all to the team and thinks nothing of showing no desire yet reomoving him from the first team is a disgrace. Why? Ive read a few comments on his performance at Accrington being OK.... Are you joking me or are you using this as a wind up? Im fully behind the club on their stance on this. If any of us went to work and didnt put effort in we would all be out on our arse and Omar Bogle falls bang into that. Its just easier to hide on a football pitch in a team who lose every game. But, because hes on a contract he is allowed to do what he wants it seems.
people at the club are to blame as they signed the players, no one can slag Williams off for lack of effort as he rarely plays to see if he does or not,in saying that he has been poor the times he has playe, bogle as bst has said the last time he played was probably his best game for us, they should be training as normal and just not picked for matches with nothing in public said

they can't "train as normal" tho.

The manager doesn't think they are good enough in terms of effort, commitment or skill levels to be able to contribute to the sessions.

Their presence at training would have a negative impact on the coaching of the rest of the squad.   

Sammy Chung was King

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #65 on September 14, 2021, 05:37:43 pm by Sammy Chung was King »
Things must be bad with the situation we are in ,that we can afford to leave them to the side.
Tough situation ,the manager has been honest with them ,thinking they would be leaving and it hasn’t happened.

It could have been the ideal opportunity to prove him wrong ,but he has every right to not let them train with the squad, as do the players refusing moves away.

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #66 on September 14, 2021, 05:53:48 pm by Jonathan »
Let’s just say I think there are some very rose tinted recollections of that half hour at Accrington Stanley. I watched the game and I watched what Bogle contributed when he came on. He did okay at best. Watch it back? No thanks.

It’s unlikely that in years to come the masses will all be reminiscing over the heady days of that half hour at Accrington Stanley where he won a header and played a diagonal ball that didn’t result in a chance being created.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 06:05:18 pm by Jonathan »

Filo

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #67 on September 14, 2021, 06:29:01 pm by Filo »
It has to be questioned how our due diligence on Bogle didn’t pick up on why he’s been binned from every club since Grimsby after a handful of games and very few goals

ForsolongaRover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #68 on September 14, 2021, 06:34:16 pm by ForsolongaRover »
The question of how should the club have resolved this has been asked.

There is a lot of speculation and very few known underlying facts. It seems fairly safe to assume that Bogle will have consulted the PFA on this. The CEO and the relevant administrative staff are not likely to have failed to look into the legal position and it is difficult to believe that Wellens consulted them in advance. I say this because they would surely have put out a more carefully worded statement if they had. OK I am speculating now, but Club Doncaster usually do things the right way. Neither side have brought this to a head, so there is an impasse.

Bogle probably ought not to have made this recent advertisement of his feelings in the matter and whilst I can understand that Wellens must have other reasons, unknown to us, for kicking this off in the way he did, it does not reflect well on him. (We know that as a player he was not always entirely self-restrained and his recent outbursts over the refereeing and how he would improve standards etc.,etc., are not reassuring.)

It is never too late to resolve a situation like this by getting the parties together and the major one, the club, is best placed to initiate this. Making peace without making public the facts but withdrawing adverse comment and expressing inappropriate conduct on both sides will either enable Bogle to depart with a degree of dignity or to restore him to the team with a resolution to play his part in a way that helps DRFC progress.

Otherwise this situation will continue to drag everybody down, players, fans and the club management.

If the club have already proposed such conciliation let them tell us.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #69 on September 14, 2021, 07:10:56 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Let’s just say I think there are some very rose tinted recollections of that half hour at Accrington Stanley. I watched the game and I watched what Bogle contributed when he came on. He did okay at best. Watch it back? No thanks.

It’s unlikely that in years to come the masses will all be reminiscing over the heady days of that half hour at Accrington Stanley where he won a header and played a diagonal ball that didn’t result in a chance being created.

I've no axe to grind for Bogle, but some of the abuse is simply over the top. Let's put it this way. He contributed more in that half hour than our young Premier League loanee has contributed in four starts. Bogle is not a good player. I get that. But the arguments that he is "stealing a wage" and "taking the piss" are ridiculous. If the manager doesn't want to play him, I have no problem with that. But the way Wellens has handled it by criticsing Bogle's decision not to move is simply wrong. He should just have said that the move had fallen through and that Bogle didn't form part of his plans going forward.

I can only remember anytihng like that ever happening once before in recent years at the rovers, with a manager publicly airing discontent behind the scenes. Ironically, that involved Wellens - when Rob Jones as caretaker implied that Wellens was refusing to play (I think his precise words were "Richie has to decide if he wants to play.") Whatever was going on behind the scenes then should not have been aired, and neither should this.

steve@dcfd

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #70 on September 14, 2021, 07:20:36 pm by steve@dcfd »
Good comparison that Bill that you used 18 year old player who just starting his career in men’s football. Did Bogle do as much work and contribution in that half an hour that Marquis would have done in 10 mins.

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #71 on September 14, 2021, 07:25:07 pm by Jonathan »
What has Wellens actually said about Bogle publicly that has upset people so much? Can anybody point to direct quotations? I feel like I’m missing something here. It’s obviously seriously upset some on here, and I know BST is always keen to deal in indisputable facts. So can somebody point to the quotes that have been so out of order.

I’m not sure we’d know that Bogle has been supposedly ostracised from the main group if he hadn’t been sharing it himself on social media, where he seems to be rather inconsistent with his versions of the truth. We can debate the rights and wrongs of what it appears Wellens and the club are doing behind the scenes. But where’s the public evidence that’s upsetting people to this extent?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 07:27:32 pm by Jonathan »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #72 on September 14, 2021, 07:27:18 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363

That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional. It also painted Wellens into a corner. After going public like that, he was unable to pick Bogle, the only fit striker we had, for the match at Rotherham. So we started with two full backs up front.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 07:34:21 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #73 on September 14, 2021, 07:30:37 pm by Jonathan »
This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363

I just don’t see what’s so wrong with that, I really don’t. It’s not the most damning criticism I’ve ever seen and, in what is if anything in tactful terms, nor is it far at all from what we’ve watched.

Padge_DRFC

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #74 on September 14, 2021, 07:31:18 pm by Padge_DRFC »
Cukur is worse and offered less and that takes some doing.

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #75 on September 14, 2021, 07:32:02 pm by Jonathan »
This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363

That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional.

You’ve chosen the word venting. It doesn’t read like venting to me. And Bogle has put his versions forward through his own channels. That’s why this thread exists.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #76 on September 14, 2021, 07:36:06 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363

That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional.

You’ve chosen the word venting. It doesn’t read like venting to me. And Bogle has put his versions forward through his own channels. That’s why this thread exists.

Have you ever heard a Rovers manager previously publicly criticise a player for not leaving when the manager wanted him to? And Bogle has, as far as I can see, posted a single word on Instagram. He hasn't had the chance and won't have the chance to be interviewed in the press to give his response to the criticisms of his ability and professional attitude that his manager made in that interview

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #77 on September 14, 2021, 07:48:49 pm by Jonathan »
This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363

That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional.

You’ve chosen the word venting. It doesn’t read like venting to me. And Bogle has put his versions forward through his own channels. That’s why this thread exists.

Have you ever heard a Rovers manager previously publicly criticise a player for not leaving when the manager wanted him to? And Bogle has, as far as I can see, posted a single word on Instagram. He hasn't had the chance and won't have the chance to be interviewed in the press to give his response to the criticisms of his ability and professional attitude that his manager made in that interview

Bogle could make any statement through the press he wanted. His agent would be able to instigate that. You see it all the time. Instead he’s pinged messages around social media groups that he may or may not have known would end up in the public domain, and shared a silly picture that he absolutely knew would.

And I don’t think coaches and managers questioning players in the press is as uncommon as you think. The example of Wellens that you’ve chosen to highlight your point in incomparable to the criticism that Mourinho levelled at Luke Shaw and Dele Alli.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #78 on September 14, 2021, 07:50:17 pm by Chris Black come back »
Cukur is worse and offered less and that takes some doing.

He’s not done much at all but he is a teenager and prior to AFC Wimbledon he had not played a single minute of senior football. There is some mitigation for his performances to date, which granted haven’t been at all good.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #79 on September 14, 2021, 07:55:12 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
And the general consensus was that Mourinho was totally out of order.

We obviously have different approaches to management. The line I think the overwhelming majority of managers would have taken was to simply say that Bogle was not part of his plans and was available for transfer but that moves had fallen through. Questioning motives publicly is simply unprofessional.

Jonathan

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #80 on September 14, 2021, 08:02:58 pm by Jonathan »
And the general consensus was that Mourinho was totally out of order.

We obviously have different approaches to management. The line I think the overwhelming majority of managers would have taken was to simply say that Bogle was not part of his plans and was available for transfer but that moves had fallen through. Questioning motives publicly is simply unprofessional.

This has utterly nothing at all to do with my own approach to management, which I expect is neither like your own nor that of Richie Wellens.

Honestly, I think you’re clutching at straws a little here having found that Wellens’ public comments on Bogle are nothing like as bad as you’d been swept up in allowing yourself to believe. I think you’ve allowed yourself to be swayed by what Bogle says is happening, but you’re too stubborn to admit that so you’ll continue to blow up quotes from what is essentially quite a tepid article.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #81 on September 14, 2021, 08:03:34 pm by Chris Black come back »
What Wellens is doing now has been done by many, many managers over the years. It isn’t really our style though, which is why it sticks in the throat a little. Saying that, nobody knows what happened on the training pitch or in the dressing room while he was in the first team squad. What is true is that nobody could have asked him to play like he has played albeit sporadically this season, so he is either ignoring instructions or doesn’t understand them.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #82 on September 14, 2021, 08:12:06 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Save the cod psychology Jonathan. What you think I'm thinking is neither correct nor of any interest. I knew precisely what Wellens had said when I first raised it. I think it is unnecessary and unprofessional. You don't. That's a difference of opinion. There's no need to turn this into a personal assault.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 08:16:00 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

Walshy

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #83 on September 14, 2021, 08:26:18 pm by Walshy »
What concerns me is when Jason lokilo left he pointed to an article where lies had been told about him wanting more money. Then there was Andy Butler's acrimonius departure after everyone was promised a fresh start which lasted all of two seconds. Now there is this with Bogle and Williams. He also publicly dressed down Louis Jones and Aj Greaves on the touchline in pre season where he acts like a joke figure and at Harrogate some of their fans were laughing at how pathetic his style was. And this is just what we know about.

He is doing more harm than good and this situation is entirely of his own making through a lack of man management skills. So can everyone else be wrong or is Wellens the wrong one? It would be alright if he was winning games but nine games in he's got a 0% win ratio and the majority of the squad he has signed himself. But we've had some of our worst performances in living memory under his management already including two hammerings by Rotherham who are light years ahead of us on the pitch.

How long do the board give it until they swallow their pride and admit they got the appointment wrong and sack the clown?

steve@dcfd

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #84 on September 14, 2021, 08:27:34 pm by steve@dcfd »
The Bogle story/ episode and the signing of the young loan striker all occurred because there was not sufficient funds to buy our own striker. Even the two we missed out on were loans. Richie was told he had to get rid of players to allow him to bring others in. He endeavoured to do that with only two players were he hoped that could be achieved. They haven’t gone. Funds were made available for a loan striker and we ended up with a free agent.
So this story and Wellens has split the support on this board much like when ODriscoll was manager. It will roll on through the the season. Even if and when Bogle leaves the below average striker whose scored 9 goals in 57 league one games over 4 seasons.

ForsolongaRover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #85 on September 14, 2021, 08:41:57 pm by ForsolongaRover »
Can anyone answer my question about DRFC/CD doing something to resolve this?

Normal Rules?

danumdon

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #86 on September 14, 2021, 10:26:42 pm by danumdon »
What we have is an utterly poor situation which has been made worse in it's handling by both the players and management.

I can see the scenario from both sides, the one thing we now have is a proper stalemate that will only fester and get worse.

RW obviously feels that for the overall good of the club Bogle an Williams should of moved on in the transfer window after it was made clear to them they had no part in his future plans, the fact that they decided to sit on their contracts made the situation worse for RW as he was then restricted from bringing in the caliber of player he was looking for, this in itself will now live with the team for the rest of the year and probability beyond as that missing link could  and should of been the key to making this lightweight squad tick.

This is what RW will ultimately be judged on and it's going to make him look really bad.

I would imagine most individuals in this poor situation would of reacted in a similar manner.

As for the the players, this situation will probably end both of their careers at a professional level when they both should have some years left in the game, admittedly at a lower level. Their market value is now through the floor.

i would imagine most individuals in this poor situation would not of reacted in a similar manner but extracted themselves now from this shit show and prolonged their careers.

And Williams is supposed to be an educated man!

The Beast

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #87 on September 14, 2021, 11:57:21 pm by The Beast »
I can see both sides of the argument but how you can single out Bogle is beyond me! The whole team has been absolutely abysmal for about 8/9 months. There’s players getting game time who haven’t got the attributes to play football at this level, it’s blindingly obvious.
Lone striker is the hardest position on the pitch to play especially in a team that doesn’t create chances. I know we always have to have a scapegoat at the Rovers but it’s a bit pathetic all this and I don’t think the club has dealt with the situation very well.
If you look at my posts I’m fully supportive of the board and Wellens, just think we need to be a bit more calculated and not hang players out to dry in public, creating a witch-hunt like this.

Canadian Rover

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #88 on September 15, 2021, 12:42:40 am by Canadian Rover »
 Wellens said he'd give Omar a chance. Since then he's played him for 85 minutes in League One total, chastised him for missing a penalty and frozen him from the squad.

Bailey Vickerage

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Re: Omar Bogle
« Reply #89 on September 15, 2021, 01:31:09 am by Bailey Vickerage »
Wellens said he'd give Omar a chance. Since then he's played him for 85 minutes in League One total, chastised him for missing a penalty and frozen him from the squad.
he said he would give him a chance and he did throughout pre season and the first few games of the season.

 

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