Ken Loach Speaks Out

[albie]

BFYP,

No, but when their party votes in favour of a policy at Conference, and it enjoys high public approval, then it is a no brainer.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Redo the poll. As people if they support a £15/hour minimum wage AND 15% inflation.

And by the way, a consistent and large majority support the reintroduction of the death penalty forcertsin murders. Maybe Labour should have that as a policy too, if we are doing policy by opinion poll?

[albie]

No, because Labour Conference did not support the death penalty.

The party position should be set by conference.
If that position has voter support, the case for adoption is enhanced.

Same thing with nationalisation.

I am well aware of the limitations of volatile polls.
Things may change, but the trend has been towards increasing levels of support against poverty pay.

I think this will grow with the end of furlough, and the reduction in Universal Credit.
The public have seen through the privatisation scam.

[SydneyRover]

Just as you struggle with the idea of electability, along with Keith, BST.

Keith reckons that opposing policies supported by the public is the key to winning elections, despite the evidence to the contrary;
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/09/poll-65-of-british-public-supports-15-minimum-wage

He just does not get the Politics game, does he?

May as well ask you Albie as tyke's gone quiet, which labour leaders have you supported in the past apart from jc?

[albie]

Me, Syd, Democratic Socialist....you know, 1 person, one vote, that sort of thing.

Clement Attlee was the best, but not without reservations.
That's the point really, the right to disagree.

Now if someone takes a different view to me that is OK...provided they are not lying about it.
I disagreed with New Labour, but I do think Broon was well intentioned, but plain wrong on things like PFI and  electoral reform.

Keith is just a careerist wetwipe, no backbone.
My honest opinion is that he is a total Cressida...I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't see it likely.

[SydneyRover]

Me, Syd, Democratic Socialist....you know, 1 person, one vote, that sort of thing.

Clement Attlee was the best, but not without reservations.
That's the point really, the right to disagree.

Now if someone takes a different view to me that is OK...provided they are not lying about it.
I disagreed with New Labour, but I do think Broon was well intentioned, but plain wrong on things like PFI and  electoral reform.

Keith is just a careerist wetwipe, no backbone.
My honest opinion is that he is a total Cressida...I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't see it likely.

Thanks Albie, that's what it's all about, making a decision about who you want in power, I would be very happy to have most natural monopolies nationalised plus most services as I think the public gets a raw deal-has got a raw deal, and don't get me started about council houses. I don't have a label I've never really thought about it, I support those that can do the most under the circumstances. Ours here is not such a binary choice so I can and do work with people left of the labor party.

Starmer could have used his skills to enrich himself with a lot less pain than the career path he's taken and he's probably like a lot of us .......... sick to death of watching the tories enrich themselves and their mates at the expense of everyone else and the country. He has to change to suit the circumstance, if you or anyone can't see that, well ..... Being angry about things you are unwilling to change as it appears a lot are is mind numbingly frustrating for the rest of us. Showing anger at the tories or those in labour that see a different pathway does not make anyone a hero, it does not make them more caring it does not make them a more real labour person at all. Try thing of the millions classed as poor, the only real growth around 1100-1200% has been in food banks, this reminds me of the stories of rationing after the war. Food poverty, fuel poverty and just plain old poverty.

This is not directed at you, look at the passion created over the selection of a third tier football manager.

[tyke1962]

Just as you struggle with the idea of electability, along with Keith, BST.

Keith reckons that opposing policies supported by the public is the key to winning elections, despite the evidence to the contrary;
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/09/poll-65-of-british-public-supports-15-minimum-wage

He just does not get the Politics game, does he?

May as well ask you Albie as tyke's gone quiet, which labour leaders have you supported in the past apart from jc?

I admire old trade union leaders rather than actual Labour Party leaders .

People like Jimmy Reed , Joe Gormley etc etc

Dennis Skinner is possibly my all time Labour Party hero .

Respect for the 1980's Liverpool council and Derek Hatton under attack from Thatcher and their stance

Tommy Sheridan and the poll tax campaign in 1990 .

[Ldr]

Just as you struggle with the idea of electability, along with Keith, BST.

Keith reckons that opposing policies supported by the public is the key to winning elections, despite the evidence to the contrary;
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/09/poll-65-of-british-public-supports-15-minimum-wage

He just does not get the Politics game, does he?

May as well ask you Albie as tyke's gone quiet, which labour leaders have you supported in the past apart from jc?

I admire old trade union leaders rather than actual Labour Party leaders .

People like Jimmy Reed , Joe Gormley etc etc

Dennis Skinner is possibly my all time Labour Party hero .

Respect for the 1980's Liverpool council and Derek Hatton under attack from Thatcher and their stance

Tommy Sheridan and the poll tax campaign in 1990 .

When you could actually respect the left and the Labour Party, so different from the modern day 'party' which grabs on to any student cause / bandwagon

[BillyStubbsTears]

Respect for Derek Hatton? Then, given the subject of this thread, I assume you will be screaming blue murder about the fact that he was hoyed out the Labour party on Corbyn's watch?

[tyke1962]

Respect for Derek Hatton? Then, given the subject of this thread, I assume you will be screaming blue murder about the fact that he was hoyed out the Labour party on Corbyn's watch?

What part of Liverpool Council 1980's escapes you Billy ?

I said I had respect for that .

I know folk doing the hard yards is difficult for you to get a handle on as an envelope in a letter box activist  but nay mind .

[SydneyRover]

Respect for Derek Hatton? Then, given the subject of this thread, I assume you will be screaming blue murder about the fact that he was hoyed out the Labour party on Corbyn's watch?

What part of Liverpool Council 1980's escapes you Billy ?

I said I had respect for that .

I know folk doing the hard yards is difficult for you to get a handle on as an envelope in a letter box activist  but nay mind .

Always the jibes and insults when part time labour supporters run out of things to say, aye tyke

On your own admission you aint done nothin' for 20 years and didn't do a whole lot previous to that and you complain about them?????

you don't even vote for them half the time, maybe labour supporter is the wrong tag?

[tyke1962]

Respect for Derek Hatton? Then, given the subject of this thread, I assume you will be screaming blue murder about the fact that he was hoyed out the Labour party on Corbyn's watch?

What part of Liverpool Council 1980's escapes you Billy ?

I said I had respect for that .

I know folk doing the hard yards is difficult for you to get a handle on as an envelope in a letter box activist  but nay mind .

Always the jibes and insults when part time labour supporters run out of things to say, aye tyke

On your own admission you aint done nothin' for 20 years and didn't do a whole lot previous to that and you complain about them?????

you don't even vote for them half the time, maybe labour supporter is the wrong tag?

A little hot under the collar Sydney this evening is it getting warmer as you come out of winter ?

At least Billy has the capacity to post envelopes inside letter boxes I'll give him that whilst unfortunately you yourself are reduced to insane rants on a third division clubs off topic section .

As a standing up barometer it's probably as low as it gets so the criticism towards myself is pretty much comedy gold .

I've stood up the things I believe in Sydney which isn't necessarily what the Labour Party believed in but if you want to be told how to think then that's up to you .

[SydneyRover]

Respect for Derek Hatton? Then, given the subject of this thread, I assume you will be screaming blue murder about the fact that he was hoyed out the Labour party on Corbyn's watch?

What part of Liverpool Council 1980's escapes you Billy ?

I said I had respect for that .

I know folk doing the hard yards is difficult for you to get a handle on as an envelope in a letter box activist  but nay mind .

Always the jibes and insults when part time labour supporters run out of things to say, aye tyke

On your own admission you aint done nothin' for 20 years and didn't do a whole lot previous to that and you complain about them?????

you don't even vote for them half the time, maybe labour supporter is the wrong tag?

A little hot under the collar Sydney this evening is it getting warmer as you come out of winter ?

At least Billy has the capacity to post envelopes inside letter boxes I'll give him that whilst unfortunately you yourself are reduced to insane rants on a third division clubs off topic section .

As a standing up barometer it's probably as low as it gets so the criticism towards myself is pretty much comedy gold .

I've stood up the things I believe in Sydney which isn't necessarily what the Labour Party believed in but if you want to be told how to think then that's up to you .

It's funny you're now standing up for bst only because I've called you out.

''Standing up for things'' there is nothing wrong with having a rant if you put the work in, tell about when you last did tyke?

You haven't actually said which other labour leader you supported?

It's never good to throw the first insult tyke because you get called out, and that's what I'm doing, you spend a good deal of your time criticising others that just get on with trying to remove an obnoxious government and all you appear to have on your record is chat. Am I right? you did say you'd done your bit and you did say it was over 20 years ago and you did say you did more with the union, am I right or am I right?

Try keeping your insults for the real enemy, conservatism, and at least vote to get them out.

You cannot store up credits for what you did decades ago and roll it out every now and again when you walk passed what is happening now.

[tyke1962]

Respect for Derek Hatton? Then, given the subject of this thread, I assume you will be screaming blue murder about the fact that he was hoyed out the Labour party on Corbyn's watch?

What part of Liverpool Council 1980's escapes you Billy ?

I said I had respect for that .

I know folk doing the hard yards is difficult for you to get a handle on as an envelope in a letter box activist  but nay mind .

Always the jibes and insults when part time labour supporters run out of things to say, aye tyke

On your own admission you aint done nothin' for 20 years and didn't do a whole lot previous to that and you complain about them?????

you don't even vote for them half the time, maybe labour supporter is the wrong tag?

A little hot under the collar Sydney this evening is it getting warmer as you come out of winter ?

At least Billy has the capacity to post envelopes inside letter boxes I'll give him that whilst unfortunately you yourself are reduced to insane rants on a third division clubs off topic section .

As a standing up barometer it's probably as low as it gets so the criticism towards myself is pretty much comedy gold .

I've stood up the things I believe in Sydney which isn't necessarily what the Labour Party believed in but if you want to be told how to think then that's up to you .

It's funny you're now standing up for bst only because I've called you out.

''Standing up for things'' there is nothing wrong with having a rant if you put the work in, tell about when you last did tyke?

You haven't actually said which other labour leader you supported?

It's never good to throw the first insult tyke because you get called out, and that's what I'm doing, you spend a good deal of your time criticising others that just get on with trying to remove an obnoxious government and all you appear to have on your record is chat. Am I right? you did say you'd done your bit and you did say it was over 20 years ago and you did say you did more with the union, am I right or am I right?

Try keeping your insults for the real enemy, conservatism, and at least vote to get them out.

You cannot store up credits for what you did decades ago and roll it out every now and again when you walk passed what is happening now.

Sydney

I believe I've made what I believe in and what I don't pretty clear on here over the last couple of years .

I don't wake up on a morning and ask myself what I can do for the Labour Party today .

The Labour Party either comes more towards me or we have a particularly difficult relationship .

Most of my life we've had a particularly difficult relationship .

Kinnock didn't support us to any great satisfaction in the strike .

Blair took the party in another direction .

Brown wasn't inspiring neither was Ed .

Corbyn had me ready to do my bit and I joined Momentum to provide some support .

Unfortunately the brexit vote made my position within the group untenable , a pro EU group wasn't for me and I had some pretty robust arguments so I left .

Corbyn whilst having sound policies was a pretty weak leader and an open goal for the right to discredit .

I've tended to concentrate on helping people in a localised way if you will .

Trade Union rep or raising money for a local foodbank more recently , that kind of stuff .

That said I held a Labour Party membership for a good number of years but I'm not attracted enough to rejoin .

There's little point in re-joining these days in any case because most of the left fringe groups that would attract me would also see me thrown out of the party today .

I accept I've a minority position but none the less I maintain that the party would have to come towards me so at least I can hold my nose and vote for them which if the truth be known other than 2017 I've done .

Alas no more .e

[albie]

Keith is really hitting home with Labour voters;
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1444301885209518080

What a surprise!
Greens will be very grateful, and it is now clear that Keith's codger fondling comes at the expense of younger voters.

All this as Labour will need to row back on the decision to expel members for retrospective association with now expelled organisations. Illegal...Keith should have known really!

Unleash "m'learned friends"!

[tyke1962]

Keith is really hitting home with Labour voters;
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1444301885209518080

What a surprise!
Greens will be very grateful, and it is now clear that Keith's codger fondling comes at the expense of younger voters.

All this as Labour will need to row back on the decision to expel members for retrospective association with now expelled organisations. Illegal...Keith should have known really!

Unleash "m'learned friends"!

So he's lost over 20% of a vote share that was walloped at the last election .

Cool !!

[SydneyRover]

Tyke,I won't continue to quote the whole page but I think this is at the heart of your politics

''The Labour Party either comes more towards me or we have a particularly difficult relationship''

I don't see how any group would be able to accommodate the whims and foibles of every individual and the answer is still the same if you want to get rid of the obnoxious government you have to vote them out.

I think what you are also saying is you haven't voted labour very often.

[tyke1962]

Tyke,I won't continue to quote the whole page but I think this is at the heart of your politics

''The Labour Party either comes more towards me or we have a particularly difficult relationship''

I don't see how any group would be able to accommodate the whims and foibles of every individual and the answer is still the same if you want to get rid of the obnoxious government you have to vote them out.

I think what you are also saying is you haven't voted labour very often.

I've held my nose and voted  Labour Sydney every election other than probably 83 when to be honest I knew nowt as a young man and in 2017 when it was a pleasure to tick the box .

So your assumption is flawed .

As I've repeated there's holding your nose which I've done most of my life and total sell out to this current clown who is not fit for purpose in any shape or form .

It doesn't bother me he won't ever be the next P.M. .

[SydneyRover]

Tyke,I won't continue to quote the whole page but I think this is at the heart of your politics

''The Labour Party either comes more towards me or we have a particularly difficult relationship''

I don't see how any group would be able to accommodate the whims and foibles of every individual and the answer is still the same if you want to get rid of the obnoxious government you have to vote them out.

I think what you are also saying is you haven't voted labour very often.

I've held my nose and voted  Labour Sydney every election other than probably 83 when to be honest I knew nowt as a young man and in 2017 when it was a pleasure to tick the box .

So your assumption is flawed .

As I've repeated there's holding your nose which I've done most of my life and total sell out to this current clown who is not fit for purpose in any shape or form .

It doesn't bother me he won't ever be the next P.M. .

I make assumptions on available information tyke.

Maybe you should step up your work in the foodbank area as the tories have increased foodbank across the UK by around 1200%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's genuinely fascinating that we are having this discussion on a thread about Ken Loach.

My take, always, is that in a FPTP electoral system you vote to get the least bad outcome. If I lived in a LD/Tory marginal, I would vote LD without a moment's hesitation.

Loach has a different take, which Tyke now seems to share. In 2015 when it seemed on election Day that Labour had a genuine chance of unseating the Tories, Loach headed a party that actively campaigned against Labour.

The argument is that principles come above pragmatism. That you follow your true beliefs, and if that results in a right wing Govt, that is someone else's fault, not yours.

I truly do not and will never understand that attitude. It is, in my opinion selfishness and egotistical indulgence of the highest order.

Argue for what you believe in always, of course. But make damn sure you vote in a way that tries to get the least bad outcome.

[albie]

The point about Loach, BST, is that he was criticizing the direction of travel under Keith.....something you seem relaxed about?

With the news that Keith is writing for Murdoch in the Sun tomorrow, trade Unions will be further alienated.

In addition, the expulsions under his watch were unlawful, and could result in expensive settlements after legal determination;
https://skwawkbox.org/2021/09/30/exclusive-bakers-pres-hodson-labour-told-me-expulsions-unlawful-video/

All none too rosy, in the overall scheme of things!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.
I'd be happier taking lectures about Labour's direction from folk who hadn't campaigned and voted against them in previous elections.

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS.
Skwakbox? Really?

[tyke1962]

Albie.
I'd be happier taking lectures about Labour's direction from folk who hadn't campaigned and voted against them in previous elections.

Does that include the centre right of the Labour Party Billy who pulled against Corbyn in two successive elections and ensured a Tory government .

I'll take no lessons from your tribe either fella .

[tyke1962]

Tyke,I won't continue to quote the whole page but I think this is at the heart of your politics

''The Labour Party either comes more towards me or we have a particularly difficult relationship''

I don't see how any group would be able to accommodate the whims and foibles of every individual and the answer is still the same if you want to get rid of the obnoxious government you have to vote them out.

I think what you are also saying is you haven't voted labour very often.

I've held my nose and voted  Labour Sydney every election other than probably 83 when to be honest I knew nowt as a young man and in 2017 when it was a pleasure to tick the box .

So your assumption is flawed .

As I've repeated there's holding your nose which I've done most of my life and total sell out to this current clown who is not fit for purpose in any shape or form .

It doesn't bother me he won't ever be the next P.M. .

I make assumptions on available information tyke.

Maybe you should step up your work in the foodbank area as the tories have increased foodbank across the UK by around 1200%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k

Perhaps if you felt so strongly about the UK today you too could put your hand to the wheel .

[SydneyRover]

I try to do all I can where I am at the time tyke, I even vote to get conservative governments out.