Energy Crunch

[River Don]

Three more utilities go bust.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/sep/29/three-more-uk-energy-suppliers-toppled-by-gas-price-surge

[River Don]

More blackouts in China.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/29/china-hit-by-power-cuts-and-factory-closures-as-energy-crisis-bites

[River Don]

GAS MARKET: European natural gas closes at a fresh all-time high after rising >10% today (both for UK NBP and Dutch TTF benchmarks). At the close, European gas was at the equivalent of ~$29 per mBtu, or close to $170 per barrel of oil equivalent. Yes, you read that correctly.


$170 a barrel... The economy can't take that for long.

[River Don]

It's the same with coal.

Asian benchmark coal (Newcastle) has been changing hands on the spot market above $200 per tonne for the last couple of days, above the weekly all-time high set in July 2008. Incredible prices, with runaway Chinese demand clashing against ESG-crunched supply |

The BoE, Fed and EU are all taking of supply chain bottlenecks this morning. What's behind that is the eye watering cost of energy.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It needs some action and whilst I'm far from keen on it, the government does need to consider subsidising energy to an extent this winter for those least well off.  We've changed our energy supplier at the end of our deal and it's going up to over £130 a month and a 35%+ increase.  That's pricey but ok for me, but for many others that's far, far too much and unaffordable.

[Filo]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

I mean fundamentally I disagree with that completely.  I don't think it should be up to government to determine fuel prices, competition has largely been healthy.

[River Don]

I don't think it'll be long before all the small players are squeezed out and we're back to the big 6 with very little competition again.

[SydneyRover]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

I mean fundamentally I disagree with that completely.  I don't think it should be up to government to determine fuel prices, competition has largely been healthy.

I know power is expensive in the UK but £130 a month is a lot, why pay for a myriad of tin pot energy sales organisations that don't produce anything?

Look what privatisation has done to water and sewage.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

I mean fundamentally I disagree with that completely.  I don't think it should be up to government to determine fuel prices, competition has largely been healthy.

I know power is expensive in the UK but £130 a month is a lot, why pay for a myriad of tin pot energy sales organisations that don't produce anything?

Look what privatisation has done to water and sewage.

I have the costs of the hybrid electric car and a 5 bedroom house I'll pay above average, my choice to have both and I can afford it. Others won't be able to afford that.

On your point, I'd argue that the lack of competition is the reason that service is so poor. If the companies could lose their licenses it may prompt better services.

Remove the competition from energy and inevitably prices go higher, do we all want to end up on the energy cap tarriff set by the authorities?  That which is higher than most people pay.

[River Don]

The problem with the energy market BFYP is it's not really competitive, it largely is a natural monopoly. It's difficult to believe that if it was a large centrally run organisation we wouldn't benefit from economies of scale.

Mind you, when we're buying international gas on the open market, there isn't a right lot anyone can do when prices shoot up like this.

[albie]

Large buyers can hedge as a business strategy, small suppliers do not, by and large.

Public ownership of essential services is far better, because the back up of Treasury support is always available.

Competition does not work well in imperfect markets where consumers are service dependent, and cannot affect the business strategy of the supplier. Public ownership strips out the need for profit to pay shareholders, and allows the industry to plan on the basis of a public service remit.

It is also very popular, because the privatisation of utilities has proved a complete disaster.

[Filo]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

I mean fundamentally I disagree with that completely.  I don't think it should be up to government to determine fuel prices, competition has largely been healthy.

The trouble with privatisation is they have become foreign owned and they are screwing the IK public to the hilt, we’ve abandoned our own resources and become dependant on foreign nations, some that are hostile

[normal rules]

Elon musk has some interesting thoughts on electricity provision.
 
He states the whole of the USA could be powered with a single solar farm 100 miles squared. Or a small corner of Ohio. And it would need a battery the size of 1 mile square to hold this power.
He also reckons China has enough unpopulated land to do the same .

[Sprotyrover]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

I mean fundamentally I disagree with that completely.  I don't think it should be up to government to determine fuel prices, competition has largely been healthy.

The trouble with privatisation is they have become foreign owned and they are screwing the IK public to the hilt, we’ve abandoned our own resources and become dependant on foreign nations, some that are hostile

A few years ago we got all our imported gas via a pumping set up near Ostend,We bought gas for X £ and thought we were laughing but it didn't come down the pipe, the Guys who owned the pumping set up said "Mais out you can av your Gaz but you pay us £xxx for the privelige of receiving it" that's why we furtively built a Pipe line to
Norway.

[Sprotyrover]

More blackouts in China.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/29/china-hit-by-power-cuts-and-factory-closures-as-energy-crisis-bites

Being a history buff I can tell you that the last time a nearly medieval country modernised and joined the Industrial world they too found themselves with a severe lack of raw materials, they built a massive modern navy and then attacked the other powers in the region and marched, sailed South! That's why Sydders mates a busy acquiring a fleet of Nuclear subs from us!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

I mean fundamentally I disagree with that completely.  I don't think it should be up to government to determine fuel prices, competition has largely been healthy.

The trouble with privatisation is they have become foreign owned and they are screwing the IK public to the hilt, we’ve abandoned our own resources and become dependant on foreign nations, some that are hostile

Well we don't have much gas left so hard to get that from elsewhere, though we should be actively pursuing other heating methods.  Electricity we should be pushing nuclear, solar, wind and not much else.  Though I remember the green types largely being against nuclear.  Whilst we still use gas we are a bit stuck.

[Sprotyrover]

By 2032 the Dogger Bank will be producing Enough electricity to fuel 25 million homes, by 2050 it will produce enough for 85 million

[River Don]

One of the big utilities on the verge of collapse apparently.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/30/ofgem-prepares-for-looming-failure-of-a-leading-energy-supplier


If things continue to deteriorate, there will be no alternative to nationalisation.

[SydneyRover]

One of the big utilities on the verge of collapse apparently.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/30/ofgem-prepares-for-looming-failure-of-a-leading-energy-supplier


If things continue to deteriorate, there will be no alternative to nationalisation.

We can always tap the johnson government haha

[River Don]

And this morning...

Business confidence has “fallen off a cliff”, as supply bottlenecks, rising energy prices, fuel shortages and looming tax increases hit the economy.

The Institute of Directors has warned that business confidence in the UK has tumbled to its lowest level since February, deep in the last lockdown.

Its index of business morale has dropped from +22 points to –1 point in September meant a return to the pessimism of February, when the economy was constrained by lockdown restrictions.

[Axholme Lion]

Time to re nationalise the energy sector, something that never should have been privatised in the first place

None of the utilities or railways should belong in private hands. I'd nationalise everything.

[Metalmicky]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

[Filo]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

[SydneyRover]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

This


We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

[Axholme Lion]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

We should build bridges to get on with Russia. Why are they always painted as the bogieman of the world? Biden hates us, i would love to see the UK allied with Russia. No more USS Great Britain.

[Filo]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

We should build bridges to get on with Russia. Why are they always painted as the bogieman of the world? Biden hates us, i would love to see the UK allied with Russia. No more USS Great Britain.

The attempted murder of two Russians on British soil, the murder of a British citizen in the same incident using Novichok, The Murder of another Russian on British soil. The Illegal annexation of Crimia and illegal incursion into Ukraine, the shooting down of that airliner by Russian backed militia. Thats why they are the bogieman of the world, Putin is a terrorist

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

We should build bridges to get on with Russia. Why are they always painted as the bogieman of the world? Biden hates us, i would love to see the UK allied with Russia. No more USS Great Britain.

The attempted murder of two Russians on British soil, the murder of a British citizen in the same incident using Novichok, The Murder of another Russian on British soil. The Illegal annexation of Crimia and illegal incursion into Ukraine, the shooting down of that airliner by Russian backed militia. Thats why they are the bogieman of the world, Putin is a terrorist

All things that other civilised countries do not do of course....

We like to take a moral high ground are we really much better?

[Not Now Kato]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

We should build bridges to get on with Russia. Why are they always painted as the bogieman of the world? Biden hates us, i would love to see the UK allied with Russia. No more USS Great Britain.

The attempted murder of two Russians on British soil, the murder of a British citizen in the same incident using Novichok, The Murder of another Russian on British soil. The Illegal annexation of Crimia and illegal incursion into Ukraine, the shooting down of that airliner by Russian backed militia. Thats why they are the bogieman of the world, Putin is a terrorist

All things that other civilised countries do not do of course....

We like to take a moral high ground are we really much better?

A brief look at our history would answer that one, and not in a kind way.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not just little Britain that has issues.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-tries-soften-blow-surging-power-gas-prices-2021-09-22/

and suspicion about Gazprom's involvement.....

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/group-eu-lawmakers-seeks-probe-gazproms-role-gas-price-surge-2021-09-17/

We and the whole of Europe should never have relied on a Russian energy supply, especially when a terrorist like Putin is in control

We should build bridges to get on with Russia. Why are they always painted as the bogieman of the world? Biden hates us, i would love to see the UK allied with Russia. No more USS Great Britain.

The attempted murder of two Russians on British soil, the murder of a British citizen in the same incident using Novichok, The Murder of another Russian on British soil. The Illegal annexation of Crimia and illegal incursion into Ukraine, the shooting down of that airliner by Russian backed militia. Thats why they are the bogieman of the world, Putin is a terrorist

All things that other civilised countries do not do of course....

We like to take a moral high ground are we really much better?

Have a look at how many politicians and journalists critical of Putin have carelessly fallen out of upstairs windows or just happen to have walked onto bullets in dark alleys.

He's a gangster running a fascist Kleptocracy. Anyone who wants us to ally with him hasn't got any comprehension of the concept of democracy.