Old Stabber

[scawsby steve]

Yet another thread initiated by a persistent WUM with no other motive than to wind up certain individuals.

No substance to the thread, no facts, no reasonable argument put forward, just a pathetic provocation which of course results in a predictable string of responses by its intended target(s) so that the originator can have his bit of fun.

And once again the quality of the forum is degraded.

I hope someone's happy.

WUM? An ex-trade unionist and genuine socialist. No facts? No reasonable argument?

Come on then; what's your opinion of Starmer's attempt to alienate the whole of the left in the Labour Party? What's your opinion of the fact that he practically wiped out the whole of the red wall in the North and North-East with the sh*te he spouted about a second referendum, when he was Shadow Brexit Secretary, making the next GE almost impossible to win under his leadership?

Let's hear your reasonable argument.

Are you forgetting jc just put labour's chances at the next election to the far side of the moon Steve, the left are not in control of the party because they made such a dog's breakfast of that election and I presume not enough can be arsed to help.

You're missing the point, Sydney. I was asking Pancho Regan to justify his attack on Tyke, who I believe to be one of the best writers on both the football forum and off-topic forum.

[SydneyRover]

I thought Pancho was having a go at selby

''Yet another thread initiated by a persistent WUM with no other motive than to wind up certain individuals''

I may be wrong

[selby]

  I can stand it.

[Pancho Regan]

Yet another thread initiated by a persistent WUM with no other motive than to wind up certain individuals.

No substance to the thread, no facts, no reasonable argument put forward, just a pathetic provocation which of course results in a predictable string of responses by its intended target(s) so that the originator can have his bit of fun.

And once again the quality of the forum is degraded.

I hope someone's happy.

WUM? An ex-trade unionist and genuine socialist. No facts? No reasonable argument?

Come on then; what's your opinion of Starmer's attempt to alienate the whole of the left in the Labour Party? What's your opinion of the fact that he practically wiped out the whole of the red wall in the North and North-East with the sh*te he spouted about a second referendum, when he was Shadow Brexit Secretary, making the next GE almost impossible to win under his leadership?

Let's hear your reasonable argument.

Are you forgetting jc just put labour's chances at the next election to the far side of the moon Steve, the left are not in control of the party because they made such a dog's breakfast of that election and I presume not enough can be arsed to help.

You're missing the point, Sydney. I was asking Pancho Regan to justify his attack on Tyke, who I believe to be one of the best writers on both the football forum and off-topic forum.

My attack on Tyke?
Have you read my post?

Clearly not. Try again, then wind your neck in.
I’ll wait for your apology.

Meanwhile, my point stands.

[Pancho Regan]

  I can stand it.

Not only can you stand it, you actually enjoy it.

That’s sad. You are contributing to the degradation of the Off Topic forum.
Well done.

[DonnyOsmond]

Yet another thread initiated by a persistent WUM with no other motive than to wind up certain individuals.

No substance to the thread, no facts, no reasonable argument put forward, just a pathetic provocation which of course results in a predictable string of responses by its intended target(s) so that the originator can have his bit of fun.

And once again the quality of the forum is degraded.

I hope someone's happy.

WUM? An ex-trade unionist and genuine socialist. No facts? No reasonable argument?

Come on then; what's your opinion of Starmer's attempt to alienate the whole of the left in the Labour Party? What's your opinion of the fact that he practically wiped out the whole of the red wall in the North and North-East with the sh*te he spouted about a second referendum, when he was Shadow Brexit Secretary, making the next GE almost impossible to win under his leadership?

Let's hear your reasonable argument.

Are you forgetting jc just put labour's chances at the next election to the far side of the moon Steve, the left are not in control of the party because they made such a dog's breakfast of that election and I presume not enough can be arsed to help.

Labour were neck and neck with the Tories until Feb 2019 when it was announced that they'd support your mate Starmers idea of a second ref.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DO
That is quite astonishing rewriting of history.

Labour's policy throughout the first half of 2019 was to enable Brexit. Corbyn was explicit on that point from Xmas 2018 when he announced that a Labour Govt would take us out of the EU.

The result?

By June 2019, according to the polls, Labour had lost 4 million, mainly younger supporters to the LDs and Greens. They stood around 20% in the polls. They won 13% in the EU elections. They were at their lowest point since WWI.

They didn't change policy to support Ref2 until late Summer 2019, from when they rallied in the polls, taking support from the Lads and Greens.

We can't have a sensible discussion if the basic, established facts are flouted. But that has always been the approach on the Left. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault. Even when the facts make it clear that the Left f**ked up.

[normal rules]

And now starmer wants the next 007 to be a woman.

[selby]

  In your opinion Pancho, which seems to be the only one you think is right so others can't express theirs,I can't remember me labeling anybody derogatory such as prat, WUM, like you and the usual suspects you mention, It must be great up there on your high horse.

[DonnyOsmond]

DO
That is quite astonishing rewriting of history.

Labour's policy throughout the first half of 2019 was to enable Brexit. Corbyn was explicit on that point from Xmas 2018 when he announced that a Labour Govt would take us out of the EU.

The result?

By June 2019, according to the polls, Labour had lost 4 million, mainly younger supporters to the LDs and Greens. They stood around 20% in the polls. They won 13% in the EU elections. They were at their lowest point since WWI.

They didn't change policy to support Ref2 until late Summer 2019, from when they rallied in the polls, taking support from the Lads and Greens.

We can't have a sensible discussion if the basic, established facts are flouted. But that has always been the approach on the Left. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault. Even when the facts make it clear that the Left f**ked up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/25/labour-to-back-moves-for-second-brexit-referendum



The dip seemed to coincide quite well with the announcement on the 25th Feb (which by the way is the beginning of 2019). But you'll not accept that so I guess we'll agree to disagree. The problem all along was they had no strong opinion which would appease the Brexit supporters. Going all in on a soft Brexit would have won supporters but certain members of the shadow cabinet weren't keen on that idea.

[SydneyRover]

I remember thinking 'why is labour agreeing to an election in the first place'

[BillyStubbsTears]

DO
Look at Labour's official policy by April 2020, when support REALLY fell off a cliff.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/labourlist.org/2019/04/labour-agrees-to-put-current-brexit-policy-in-european-manifesto/%3famp

Look at the consequence by June 2017.

First page "Vote in 2017" columns.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/0crw8ssin8/TimesResults_190610_VI_w.pdf

39% of people who voted Labour in 2017 were supporting LD or Greens by June 2019. Do you HONESTLY think those people had left Labour because of a dastardly plot to force Ref2 on Corbyn?

You are shamelessly re-writing history. Corbyn ALWAYS wanted Brexit. He spent his entire political life fighting for that. He very nearly destroyed the Labour party as a result. If his April 2020 policy had been taken into the 2019 election, Labour would have been lucky to get 100 seats.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And Christ up above, "soft" Brexit was precisely what Corbyn committed Labour to in April 2020. And look at the effect it had, on the very graph you posted.

[DonnyOsmond]

I've already said let's agree to disagree.

There's already been a report leaked about how centrists in the party were actively sabotaging election chances and rubbing their hands together at the thought of a poor election in both 2017 and 2019 but yeah we'll just blame Corbyn.

Let's move on. Enjoy the game x