Scale of the problem

[bpoolrover]

34 matches left. To hit 50 points, we need form something like:

W12 D7 L15.

It's not going to happen is it? Not on that second half capitulation? Out worked and out wanted by a very, very poor side.

It’s easy to out work us, we are incapable of stepping it up, I see no one in that team playing for the badge, I see no one geeing players up or getting angry when we concede, they are stealing a wage!

The team have a good mentor. Bogle is stealing a wage. That in itself undermines the whole squad ethos.

bogle is not stealing a wage thou he was signed on a contract and is willing to play wellens has chose not to play him and force him out, unless he can get the same wage or something that suits him why should he move on?

[danumdon]

Cannot be ignored that DM also had a part in our present problem.

I think i can safely say I'm not a fan of Mr Moore but we can't keep blaming him for this capitulation, RW had a virtually clean sheet to kick off with, managed to soil it with some old emulsion and a tin of manky magnolia found at the back of the shed.

Shocking scouting from his team of "talent spotters"

[Glyn_Wigley]

Cannot be ignored that DM also had a part in our present problem.

Why does everyone keep mentioning DM?? He’s been gone for nearly a year. I suggest we look closer to home

But the shit he left is still here.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Managers make decisions, he can’t go back on Bogle and Ed Williams unless they show a dramatic improvement in form in training and practice games.
It should never be personal, it’s all about the team.

[redwine]

This is next years team…… get over it!

Bugger, we're double f**ked then!!!

[Chris Black come back]

This is both unfair as it is across two seasons and not entirely representative as I’ve selected the period, but it is eye watering when you read this. Our last 28 league games have delivered 4 wins, 4 draws and 20 defeats. We’ve kept a grand total of 4 clean sheets. Of our four wins, three were by a single goal. This is truly terrible.

[colincramb]

This is both unfair as it is across two seasons and not entirely representative as I’ve selected the period, but it is eye watering when you read this. Our last 28 league games have delivered 4 wins, 4 draws and 20 defeats. We’ve kept a grand total of 4 clean sheets. Of our four wins, three were by a single goal. This is truly terrible.

Yet when this is pointed out, you are seen as negative and critical. We are drifting into league 2 and the club appears content with this, with no action being taken to arrest the malaise that has clearly set in. Instead we get fed the party line from Baldwin/wellens that it’s not the budget, it’s just luck/injuries etc etc.

Those responsible for blowing the budget on this shower shouldn’t be in a job. Where’s the ruthless streak from our supposed leaders??

[sha66y]

If the budget was …….(££££)
and we had to practically buy/procure yay amount of players …….. surely that would account for the quality of the players?

You can only buy what you can afford!

Some on here forget that our team was decimated and needed a quick fix to be able to get a preseason going……

“ i demand it now”generation,  have the memories of fish!

[steve@dcfd]

Let’s look at blowing the budget. Six young lads were signed before Richie arrived. Taylor was given a contract extension. Then we signed Close filled by Knoyle, Williams and Rowe. Those three were signed on lees than the players they replaced. Hiwula was signed but was he the first choice for left side or one that fitted our budget. We then find out we can’t sign our own keeper and defensive midfield player as they would cost more than we pay. So know we can’t sign anymore until two players leave and young players go out on loan. Start looking at Trialists although we don’t  have funds to sign any. We bring in Smith and Cukur on loan. Start playing some preseason Friendlies. We sign two Trialists on not a lot of money. We bring in loan  goalkeeper making sure he doesn’t cost to much. Then we have the farce of the transfer deadline we didn’t get the players we wanted money had been made available. We bring in Vilca that no one had seen play and sign Dodoo from the free market. Still Bogle and Williams are at the club on the playing budget.
So we’ve blown the budget. Can’t have been a big budget if we did. But we get what we pay for, the club have a long term view. So the scale of the problem is there for all to see. None of the front players would get in last years side but that’s what we could afford. We couldn’t replace Whiteman last season and certainly haven’t this season. The defence is not as good. We’ve been hoping Taylor and Okenbirhie would be fit. The season so far as been poor don’t see it changing as we will not get the players we need in January. So we will end up in league two were our budget will be a top half budget as Gavin said.

[sha66y]

Let’s look at blowing the budget. Six young lads were signed before Richie arrived. Taylor was given a contract extension. Then we signed Close filled by Knoyle, Williams and Rowe. Those three were signed on lees than the players they replaced. Hiwula was signed but was he the first choice for left side or one that fitted our budget. We then find out we can’t sign our own keeper and defensive midfield player as they would cost more than we pay. So know we can’t sign anymore until two players leave and young players go out on loan. Start looking at Trialists although we don’t  have funds to sign any. We bring in Smith and Cukur on loan. Start playing some preseason Friendlies. We sign two Trialists on not a lot of money. We bring in loan  goalkeeper making sure he doesn’t cost to much. Then we have the farce of the transfer deadline we didn’t get the players we wanted money had been made available. We bring in Vilca that no one had seen play and sign Dodoo from the free market. Still Bogle and Williams are at the club on the playing budget.
So we’ve blown the budget. Can’t have been a big budget if we did. But we get what we pay for, the club have a long term view. So the scale of the problem is there for all to see. None of the front players would get in last years side but that’s what we could afford. We couldn’t replace Whiteman last season and certainly haven’t this season. The defence is not as good. We’ve been hoping Taylor and Okenbirhie would be fit. The season so far as been poor don’t see it changing as we will not get the players we need in January. So we will end up in league two were our budget will be a top half budget as Gavin said.

And that in a nutshell sums up our current predicament…..well said!

[vaya]

Let’s look at blowing the budget. Six young lads were signed before Richie arrived. Taylor was given a contract extension. Then we signed Close filled by Knoyle, Williams and Rowe. Those three were signed on lees than the players they replaced. Hiwula was signed but was he the first choice for left side or one that fitted our budget. We then find out we can’t sign our own keeper and defensive midfield player as they would cost more than we pay. So know we can’t sign anymore until two players leave and young players go out on loan. Start looking at Trialists although we don’t  have funds to sign any. We bring in Smith and Cukur on loan. Start playing some preseason Friendlies. We sign two Trialists on not a lot of money. We bring in loan  goalkeeper making sure he doesn’t cost to much. Then we have the farce of the transfer deadline we didn’t get the players we wanted money had been made available. We bring in Vilca that no one had seen play and sign Dodoo from the free market. Still Bogle and Williams are at the club on the playing budget.
So we’ve blown the budget. Can’t have been a big budget if we did. But we get what we pay for, the club have a long term view. So the scale of the problem is there for all to see. None of the front players would get in last years side but that’s what we could afford. We couldn’t replace Whiteman last season and certainly haven’t this season. The defence is not as good. We’ve been hoping Taylor and Okenbirhie would be fit. The season so far as been poor don’t see it changing as we will not get the players we need in January. So we will end up in league two were our budget will be a top half budget as Gavin said.

Few things from that Steve:

- Where's it been confirmed that Knoyle, Williams and Rowe are on less than the players they replaced?

- We've signed a dozen players one way or another. Within that there has presumably been plenty of money and or opportunity to sign a defensive midfielder of some description.

 - Since Wellens said he'd have to move players out before he signed any more, we've signed players.

[steve@dcfd]

Richie said in several interviews that they were less than the players they replaced.

He also said we couldn’t afford a defensive midfield player from the list of 15 players that the team had put together so he would have to wait. Since it was said we would have to wait for players to go out we signed Barlow and Gardner on low wages. We brought in two loans eventually after waiting to get the best deal we could. Then more money was made available to bring in Dodoo and Vilca.

[River Don]

Trying to be objective.

I think the club have a fair enough budget to produce a side that at least should be able to compete and remain in this league.

I don't think we can ignore the state of the squad at the end of DMs tenure. It needed a complete overhaul. These are exceptional circumstances.

Richie was appointed through a rigorous system. His track record wasn't a bad one. Very few Rovers supporters were disapointed in his return.

RW had to build his squad under pressure. I don't know how many compromises had to be made but clearly compromises were made. And there been some spectacular public failures in the rebuild too.

So yes it is RWs squad but I'd argue it's far from being the finished article.


At this point, is it better to throw the dice, again, whilst we are still in the rebuild? And if we did that, could we expect to see any dramatic change?

[vaya]

Steve,

I can't say I've picked up on the comments about Rowe etc before - have you a link to one of the interviews?

As for the defensive midfielder, again we've signed a dozen players, if it is/was a priority then they could have been signed in place of Close/Hiwula/Rowe/Galbraith or anyone else.

Since Wellens said we'd have to move people out, we've still managed to sign a number of players, including Dodoo on a permanent two-year deal.

[PACMAN]

Rome wasn't built in a day or a few months for that matter. We are no longer a sacking club thankfully so I think RW will get time to turn this around. The writing was on the wall with our pathetic collapse in the second half of last season so I can't lay the blame wholly at RW's door.

That said things clearly need to improve, we need a couple of "misters" in the team, leaders who will drag us through tough games. I fully expect he'll be given the January transfer window to rectify this.

I remember O'Driscoll being called O'Dismal by plenty on here and he didn't really turn it round until Christmas in his first season? At least it's never dull being a Rovers fan 

[River Don]

"Rome wasn't built in a day... But then again, I wasn't on the job!

Brian Howard Clough

Sorry, couldn't resist using that classic quote.

[Dare to dream!]

I don’t even think we have a choice but to stick with Richie and hope he can turn it around.

[Bentley Bullet]

In life in general you get what you pay for. Maybe you can get the odd bargain along the way but they are few and far between. That's why people boast about them when they get one.

[River Don]

Fair enough BB

But are you suggesting the Rovers budget was not big enough to build a side that could remain in this league?

Are you suggesting it was always a relegation budget?

Personally, I don't think it was.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Fair enough BB

But are you suggesting the Rovers budget was not big enough to build a side that could remain in this league?

Are you suggesting it was always a relegation budget?

Personally, I don't think it was.

This 100%. Clearly it’s not a top 10 budget which is probably what was said over the summer but it’s enough to stay up comfortably. A lot of the players we signed permanently are established L1 players at the top end of the table.

If we factor the money Bogle and Williams are on we wound have a top half budget you’d think.
 

[DonnyOsmond]

We will have a bigger budget then potentially Plymouth, Burton, Accrington, Cheltenham, Wimbledon, Cambridge, Morecambe, Gillingham, Shrewsbury and Crewe.

[steve@dcfd]

Vaya I haven’t got the links but it was said on Radio Sheffield interviews. That Knoyle Williams snd Rowe cost less than Halliday James and Butler.

[MachoMadness]

Vaya I haven’t got the links but it was said on Radio Sheffield interviews. That Knoyle Williams snd Rowe cost less than Halliday James and Butler.

To be fair I do recall Wellens saying this too. Think I read it in the DFP. I can't give a date but it will have been before the end of the transfer window. Of course, whether it's true or not, who knows.

[vaya]

Vaya I haven’t got the links but it was said on Radio Sheffield interviews. That Knoyle Williams snd Rowe cost less than Halliday James and Butler.

To be fair I do recall Wellens saying this too. Think I read it in the DFP. I can't give a date but it will have been before the end of the transfer window. Of course, whether it's true or not, who knows.

I suppose it has to be taken at face value, although 'less' covers a multitude of outcomes, could be £3k, could be £3.

[MachoMadness]

Vaya I haven’t got the links but it was said on Radio Sheffield interviews. That Knoyle Williams snd Rowe cost less than Halliday James and Butler.

To be fair I do recall Wellens saying this too. Think I read it in the DFP. I can't give a date but it will have been before the end of the transfer window. Of course, whether it's true or not, who knows.

I suppose it has to be taken at face value, although 'less' covers a multitude of outcomes, could be £3k, could be £3.

This is also true. It's possible all of this talk could be some long game negotiating strategy by Wellens. Not sure it's a terribly successful one if so.

[steve@dcfd]

Vaya I haven’t got the links but it was said on Radio Sheffield interviews. That Knoyle Williams snd Rowe cost less than Halliday James and Butler.

To be fair I do recall Wellens saying this too. Think I read it in the DFP. I can't give a date but it will have been before the end of the transfer window. Of course, whether it's true or not, who knows.

I suppose it has to be taken at face value, although 'less' covers a multitude of outcomes, could be £3k, could be £3.

No as you say how much less we don’t know as there are no facts. Same as the playing budget there are no facts how big or how small it is we have to take that at face value.

[Upton Rover]

RW please clear your desk

[steve@dcfd]

RW please clear your desk

What about the others that were in the process and deciding what players we should go for with the right DNA.

[BobG]

Who have you got lined up Upton?

BobG

[i_ateallthepies]

Unless anyone has factual information on this season's budget I'll take the view that the facts (as perfectly summarised by steve@dcfd) speak for themselves.  Wellens had so much rebuilding to do with a substantially reduced budget that to cover the number of holes he had to spread the money extremely thin.  He had to make compromises.  Even with the questionable quality of player he was able to sign there are still areas of the squad that are thinner than we would like, making the injuries we've had even more telling.

As for criticising his failure to sign mature players, Wellens explained after the Ipswich game that his initial signings were based on building for the future, which was basically his remit from the club. He couldn't have known then the extent of the injury crisis that was going to happen.