ZHC, who's a happy bunny then?

[SydneyRover]

Lots of debate about zero hours contracts which are now a part of life in the UK.

I have been told by various people that a lot are happy in a job with low pay, no training beyond what you are expected to do there and then, no prospects of advancement, no prospects for the majority to move to permanent work, and who would give you a loan for a car or a house?

I have spent a couple of hours, not a lot I agree looking for information about these free spirits, over 900,000 is a conservative estimate and cannot find my way through the government surveys when looking for the column of those that tick the box of happy and contented doing this. So I have looked elsewhere.

Here are a few articles that I found, there are lots of stuff from employer groups quoting good bits from a single survey done by an employer group (2015) of 350 people but cannot find the survey itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/13/zero-hours-contracts-trapping-women-of-colour-on-low-pay

https://theconversation.com/zero-hours-contracts-have-a-devastating-impact-on-career-progression-labour-is-right-to-ban-them-123066

https://www.zerohoursjustice.org/blog/uk-lags-behind-australia-in-security-for-zero-hours-contract-workers

https://theconversation.com/one-million-britons-will-be-on-zero-hour-contracts-by-end-of-2020-132338

https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/flexibility-or-insecurity-exploring-the-rise-in-zero-hours-contracts

''The Institute of Directors, a chartered organisation of British business leaders, has defended the contracts as providing a flexible labour market, citing the lack of flexibility in Italy and Spain.[17] Jacob Rees-Mogg MP has also argued that they benefit employees, including students, by providing flexibility, and could provide a route into more permanent employment.''[40]

But 'The Conversation' article rejects this.

Most doing this type of work are of a younger age and unskilled and I guess as I don't know, that most of these are not doing it as a temp situ until that high tech, highly paid job comes along.

I would genuinely would like to see some solid information that says how many people are happy doing this and importantly why they are they happy. Are they happy because it's the only work they can get? How long do they expect to do this work and why, are a few of questions to answer if possible.

The view from someone in a comfortable position can be totally different from someone that's not.

[Filo]

Zero hour contracts should be illegal, simple as that, as should agencies, both of them are exploitation of the worker. Companies like KFC don’t give zero hours, instead they give 4 hour contracts, which is equally taking the piss

[SydneyRover]

''‘Blame game’ plays out between UK government and business
Johnson says companies too reliant on cheap, foreign labour while companies decry ‘horrifying rhetoric’''

https://www.ft.com/content/45863c4d-f08f-4dd4-a400-59e9a5dd903b

Johnson doesn't speak to business being too reliant on cheap British labour.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Zero hour contracts should be illegal, simple as that, as should agencies, both of them are exploitation of the worker. Companies like KFC don’t give zero hours, instead they give 4 hour contracts, which is equally taking the piss

What do I do if I'm running a school and the lunch supervisor is suddenly ill or running a pub, a restaurant, a shop etc?

They shouldn't be banned, they should be used correctly and misuse should be regulated and punished.

If KFC only need staff for peak demand times surely they are doing the right thing?

Same for agencies. They should be used where needed in extreme circumstances.  Most businesses will need to occasionally use agency staff to fill a gap, but most also wouldn't want that as the norm.

[SydneyRover]

Zero hour contracts should be illegal, simple as that, as should agencies, both of them are exploitation of the worker. Companies like KFC don’t give zero hours, instead they give 4 hour contracts, which is equally taking the piss

What do I do if I'm running a school and the lunch supervisor is suddenly ill or running a pub, a restaurant, a shop etc?

They shouldn't be banned, they should be used correctly and misuse should be regulated and punished.

If KFC only need staff for peak demand times surely they are doing the right thing?

Same for agencies. They should be used where needed in extreme circumstances.  Most businesses will need to occasionally use agency staff to fill a gap, but most also wouldn't want that as the norm.

You pay them a decent hourly rate to compensate for the fact they are only required for a short period, they are helping your business to run.

[normal rules]

It’s not all bad.I have a teacher friend who only does agency work. As a result of the good pay he gets, he only does a three day week.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Zero hour contracts should be illegal, simple as that, as should agencies, both of them are exploitation of the worker. Companies like KFC don’t give zero hours, instead they give 4 hour contracts, which is equally taking the piss

What do I do if I'm running a school and the lunch supervisor is suddenly ill or running a pub, a restaurant, a shop etc?

They shouldn't be banned, they should be used correctly and misuse should be regulated and punished.

If KFC only need staff for peak demand times surely they are doing the right thing?

Same for agencies. They should be used where needed in extreme circumstances.  Most businesses will need to occasionally use agency staff to fill a gap, but most also wouldn't want that as the norm.

You pay them a decent hourly rate to compensate for the fact they are only required for a short period, they are helping your business to run.

You do realise on average that largely is the case?  I've worked on big projects to reduce agency/temp staff to minimums because it's a higher wage and inefficient.  But you do need resilience for sickness and demand peaks.

[SydneyRover]

Zero hour contracts should be illegal, simple as that, as should agencies, both of them are exploitation of the worker. Companies like KFC don’t give zero hours, instead they give 4 hour contracts, which is equally taking the piss

What do I do if I'm running a school and the lunch supervisor is suddenly ill or running a pub, a restaurant, a shop etc?

They shouldn't be banned, they should be used correctly and misuse should be regulated and punished.

If KFC only need staff for peak demand times surely they are doing the right thing?

Same for agencies. They should be used where needed in extreme circumstances.  Most businesses will need to occasionally use agency staff to fill a gap, but most also wouldn't want that as the norm.

You pay them a decent hourly rate to compensate for the fact they are only required for a short period, they are helping your business to run.

You do realise on average that largely is the case?  I've worked on big projects to reduce agency/temp staff to minimums because it's a higher wage and inefficient.  But you do need resilience for sickness and demand peaks.

Don't you think that's the problem pud, whenever people (think miners on another topic) start to get a reasonable wage the accountants look for ways to reduce their hours and their pay. How is the government going to drive high tech, high wages? johnson wants industry to carry this, he doesn't want it applied to those paid from the government purse and industry doesn't want it at all.

The only time management are subject to these conditions is following a take over where the 'new broom' cleans out a lot of middle management.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Zero hour contracts should be illegal, simple as that, as should agencies, both of them are exploitation of the worker. Companies like KFC don’t give zero hours, instead they give 4 hour contracts, which is equally taking the piss

What do I do if I'm running a school and the lunch supervisor is suddenly ill or running a pub, a restaurant, a shop etc?

They shouldn't be banned, they should be used correctly and misuse should be regulated and punished.

If KFC only need staff for peak demand times surely they are doing the right thing?

Same for agencies. They should be used where needed in extreme circumstances.  Most businesses will need to occasionally use agency staff to fill a gap, but most also wouldn't want that as the norm.

You pay them a decent hourly rate to compensate for the fact they are only required for a short period, they are helping your business to run.

You do realise on average that largely is the case?  I've worked on big projects to reduce agency/temp staff to minimums because it's a higher wage and inefficient.  But you do need resilience for sickness and demand peaks.

Don't you think that's the problem pud, whenever people (think miners on another topic) start to get a reasonable wage the accountants look for ways to reduce their hours and their pay. How is the government going to drive high tech, high wages? johnson wants industry to carry this, he doesn't want it applied to those paid from the government purse and industry doesn't want it at all.

The only time management are subject to these conditions is following a take over where the 'new broom' cleans out a lot of middle management.

Not really there's many drivers to it. I've never really had to cut standard wages, but typically pricing doesn't include high levels of above normal spending in many cases.  Often the businesspeople making the decisions have very little choice, sometimes wage cuts can be justified and there's now much more you can offer for various jobs.

In my experience if you want to increase wages you have to increase prices. Most businesses don't run at high enough margins to absorb it hence it gets passed on to the consumer.

I used to do a lot of work with local authorities in the past and we often offered a better package than the authority for the same service. But to make it pay you had to cut costs in some way as the authorities were looking to privatise the service through a provider and keep a cut for themselves.  Easy to do if you could generate the scale.

[SydneyRover]

The problem is pud is people have to live in the real world, they cannot take your argument up to tesco and say, I'm sorry I don't earn enough to pay your prices, I can only offer you this. And it's is why under this government there has been an increase of 1100% in food banks. All this talk of high tech high wages is just so much hot air and slogans, easy to say hard to do.

Back on topic, how many of these highly paid ZHC staff you are talking about make up the 900,000 + ?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I have no idea, I can only discuss personal experiences.  You have to understand there's many variables and often the big nasty capitalist face isn't what the media and left often portray.  There's many online studies about it, some will like it, some won't. But I do think it has a place if used correctly (and that's the key point).

I do agree that high tec wages are hard to do and that's exactly why they should be pressing on and doing so.  That's the only way the workers in low paid jobs will get an increase as your retailers etc can then justify a price rise to meet it which others can afford.  The inflation has to happen alongside wage growth, they are very much linked.  Avoiding it because it's hard is not the answer.

[SydneyRover]

My view is a publicly listed company should have a business plan without relying on those at the bottom of the page not being paid a 'living wage' to exist. If that is the case it really isn't a business plan and maybe enough people at the top need to have a haircut and or less expensive cars.

[SydneyRover]

Hi Liz, how ya doin'.................  yep me too but what can you do, people can't seem get enough of him, so what's up ...................... oh right yeah I read about that,  nah your on your own there I think, sympathy's a little short apparently until it affects you, and besides there's another 900,000 in the same boat.