Owen Paterson

[Ldr]

It’s a shocking failure of government policy

[Axholme Lion]

AL
So let me get this right.

Boris Johnson is PM. So bucths logic, people have looked at him and said "Yep. He looks like PM material. Haven't booked at the policies yet, but having looked at the leader, I am prepared to vote Tory "

But that argument doesn't work for Starmer and Labour?

I'm speaking in general terms looking at the whole. Boris is a one off. He is where he is because he promised Brexit and people were sick of being fannied about over the whole issue. To be fair he did what he said, other than that he's full of shit. I voted Conservative for that reason and also our local MP seems to be a decent sort who always replies to my queries. Personally i'm also not that keen on Starmer either. As it stands at the moment i would vote for either the Reform Party or the SDP. The Tories are coming over as spivs and Labour too much looney left.
On a different note i had to laugh that BJ couldn't get back to the House yesterday because of the train timetables but was able to fly back from COP26 for a piss up with his mates the other day. It's actions like this that will see his 80 seat majority go down the u bend.

Won't the SDP be too left for you?

I could live with them. I would be ok with the immediate post war Labour Party.

[SydneyRover]

fewer and fewer people in the UK smoke and it's another lousy generalisation to say that poor people spend their money on fags, but even if they do, so what?

I would have thought any responsible parent would prioritize a balanced diet for THEIR children over a packet of twenty B&H. Don't shoot the messenger i'm only saying what i see roaming around town. Also i did say 'some' irresponsible parents, so i wouldn't say it was a gross generalization.

I didn't say gross, I said lousy and unless you know who the what, where, how, why and when about the people you see, you don't really know do you.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST you campaigned door to door in 2019. What was your experience of reasons ppl had for not voting Labour?

It was Corbyn. No question.

Point is though, those people had no compunction voting for a man with a lifetime record of lying about anything and everything. By any possible rational measure, Johnson was no more suitable to be PM than Corbyn. Yet how many people switched from Tory to Labour because of Johnson?

[Ldr]

That’s the issue though, image and perception over policy. We both know that unfortunately

[Axholme Lion]

fewer and fewer people in the UK smoke and it's another lousy generalisation to say that poor people spend their money on fags, but even if they do, so what?

I would have thought any responsible parent would prioritize a balanced diet for THEIR children over a packet of twenty B&H. Don't shoot the messenger i'm only saying what i see roaming around town. Also i did say 'some' irresponsible parents, so i wouldn't say it was a gross generalization.

Problem is AL, attitudes like this are used ruthlessly by right wing politicians to generalise. To justify benefit cuts at a time of falling real wages, putting hundreds of thousands on the breadline.

The use of food banks has exploded over the past decade. Do you reckon that is because the number of feckless people has increased that much?

Certainly a major factor but obviously not the whole picture.

[Axholme Lion]

BST you campaigned door to door in 2019. What was your experience of reasons ppl had for not voting Labour?

It was Corbyn. No question.

Point is though, those people had no compunction voting for a man with a lifetime record of lying about anything and everything. By any possible rational measure, Johnson was no more suitable to be PM than Corbyn. Yet how many people switched from Tory to Labour because of Johnson?

Corbyn was seen as Che Geuvara's best mate and Joe Bloggs was annoyed that in their eyes the referendum result was trying to be ignored/overturned. BJ promised to sort Brexit and the combination of these two factors is IMO why he won. Everyone knows he's a BS merchant, but he's served his purpose so now he can go.

[Axholme Lion]

fewer and fewer people in the UK smoke and it's another lousy generalisation to say that poor people spend their money on fags, but even if they do, so what?

I would have thought any responsible parent would prioritize a balanced diet for THEIR children over a packet of twenty B&H. Don't shoot the messenger i'm only saying what i see roaming around town. Also i did say 'some' irresponsible parents, so i wouldn't say it was a gross generalization.

I didn't say gross, I said lousy and unless you know who the what, where, how, why and when about the people you see, you don't really know do you.

I dare say you haven't been in Donny town centre for a while. I'm not stupid and i know what i see.

[SydneyRover]

fewer and fewer people in the UK smoke and it's another lousy generalisation to say that poor people spend their money on fags, but even if they do, so what?

I would have thought any responsible parent would prioritize a balanced diet for THEIR children over a packet of twenty B&H. Don't shoot the messenger i'm only saying what i see roaming around town. Also i did say 'some' irresponsible parents, so i wouldn't say it was a gross generalization.

I didn't say gross, I said lousy and unless you know who the what, where, how, why and when about the people you see, you don't really know do you.

I dare say you haven't been in Donny town centre for a while. I'm not stupid and i know what i see.

I didn't say you were stupid, I just said you don't know nd until you talk to them and find out you are biased by your prejudices.

[ColinDouglasHandshake]

Donny town centre is an absolute shit hole. Every time i go back to Donny to visit friends / family i always avoid going into town. It is so depressing.

If i have to nip in quick the fish market then i'm in and out again quick sharp. Growing up in Donny was horrible as it was always such an oppressive atmosphere in the town, especially that precinct where The Staff of Life, Netto and Jobcentre was near Southern Bus Station,  but i thought it was supposed to have improved.

You can't change where you were born and raised but it would have been nice to have had a choice.

[SydneyRover]

Food banks have increased in number by around 1100% since 2010 fact.

Only 15 out 100 people smoke in the UK fact.

''Unicef to feed hungry children in UK for first time in 70-year history''

''The UN agency, which is responsible for providing humanitarian aid to children worldwide, said the coronavirus pandemic was the most urgent crisis affecting children since the second world war.

A YouGov poll in May commissioned by the charity Food Foundation found 2.4 million children (17%) were living in food insecure households. By October, an extra 900,000 children had been registered for free school meals.

Unicef has pledged a grant of £25,000 to the community project School Food Matters, which will use the money to supply 18,000 nutritious breakfasts to 25 schools over the two-week Christmas holidays and February half-term, feeding vulnerable children and families in Southwark, south London, who have been severely impacted by the coronavirus pandemic''

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/16/unicef-feed-hungry-children-uk-first-time-history

[Axholme Lion]

fewer and fewer people in the UK smoke and it's another lousy generalisation to say that poor people spend their money on fags, but even if they do, so what?

I would have thought any responsible parent would prioritize a balanced diet for THEIR children over a packet of twenty B&H. Don't shoot the messenger i'm only saying what i see roaming around town. Also i did say 'some' irresponsible parents, so i wouldn't say it was a gross generalization.

I didn't say gross, I said lousy and unless you know who the what, where, how, why and when about the people you see, you don't really know do you.

I dare say you haven't been in Donny town centre for a while. I'm not stupid and i know what i see.

I didn't say you were stupid, I just said you don't know nd until you talk to them and find out you are biased by your prejudices.

I know you didn't say i was stupid. I was using it clarify that i know what type of people i'm looking at. Believe me, i'm no snob I was brought up in a council house, but we now have a group of people who are a world away from the 'working class' of the sixties and seventies. I'll probably get slaughtered on here (puts on tin hat) but there's a lot out there who you would not class as polite society, we all know the type. I think you are being a little naive about some of these people.

[SydneyRover]

What are the characteristics of a snob?

[Axholme Lion]

What are the characteristics of a snob?

According to the dictionary:snob

a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.
"her mother was a snob and wanted a lawyer as a son-in-law"

I'm working class, proud of it and wouldn't wish to be anything else. Thank you.

[SydneyRover]

What are the characteristics of a snob?

According to the dictionary:snob

a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.
"her mother was a snob and wanted a lawyer as a son-in-law"

I'm working class, proud of it and wouldn't wish to be anything else. Thank you.

Not sure you quite understand the concept but anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppv97S3ih14

[Axholme Lion]

What are the characteristics of a snob?

According to the dictionary:snob

a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior.
"her mother was a snob and wanted a lawyer as a son-in-law"

I'm working class, proud of it and wouldn't wish to be anything else. Thank you.

Not sure you quite understand the concept but anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppv97S3ih14

Ha ha.  I still think you're being a bit naïve about some of these people. There are a lot, not all, but a lot who do not want to work and better themselves. If you can't or won't see it i'm not going to try and convince you.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST you campaigned door to door in 2019. What was your experience of reasons ppl had for not voting Labour?

It was Corbyn. No question.

Point is though, those people had no compunction voting for a man with a lifetime record of lying about anything and everything. By any possible rational measure, Johnson was no more suitable to be PM than Corbyn. Yet how many people switched from Tory to Labour because of Johnson?

Corbyn was seen as Che Geuvara's best mate and Joe Bloggs was annoyed that in their eyes the referendum result was trying to be ignored/overturned. BJ promised to sort Brexit and the combination of these two factors is IMO why he won. Everyone knows he's a BS merchant, but he's served his purpose so now he can go.

But that doesn't tie in with what you said before. You said that people look at personalities and fitness to be PM before they look at policies. Now you're saying everyone knew Johnson wasn't fit to be PM, but he had a policy that Brexit supporters liked.

With that in mind, why not look past what you think of Starmer's image and look at Starmer's policies?

[drfchound]

BST you campaigned door to door in 2019. What was your experience of reasons ppl had for not voting Labour?

There's a YouGov poll on it too.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/23/their-own-words-why-voters-abandoned-labour







Looking at that link I see that some people simply didn’t vote Labour because they didn’t like Corbyn.
Surely that seems reasonable then that some people voted Tory because they liked Johnson.
Why is it so unbelievable?

[Axholme Lion]

BST you campaigned door to door in 2019. What was your experience of reasons ppl had for not voting Labour?

It was Corbyn. No question.

Point is though, those people had no compunction voting for a man with a lifetime record of lying about anything and everything. By any possible rational measure, Johnson was no more suitable to be PM than Corbyn. Yet how many people switched from Tory to Labour because of Johnson?

Corbyn was seen as Che Geuvara's best mate and Joe Bloggs was annoyed that in their eyes the referendum result was trying to be ignored/overturned. BJ promised to sort Brexit and the combination of these two factors is IMO why he won. Everyone knows he's a BS merchant, but he's served his purpose so now he can go.

But that doesn't tie in with what you said before. You said that people look at personalities and fitness to be PM before they look at policies. Now you're saying everyone knew Johnson wasn't fit to be PM, but he had a policy that Brexit supporters liked.

With that in mind, why not look past what you think of Starmer's image and look at Starmer's policies?

I think it was a one off situation. Neither leader was a highly desirable choice for the electorate. I think a lot of people will look at the personalities, probably not the right thing to do you're right, but other than having to take an exam to get the right to vote we're probably stuck with it.

[Axholme Lion]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180901/Red-Wall-Tories-turn-Boris-Commons-sleaze-debacle.html

Oh dear.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180901/Red-Wall-Tories-turn-Boris-Commons-sleaze-debacle.html

Oh dear.

I wonder what there was that was so much more important for him to do than attending the Commons and trying to stop the shitshow in person.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apparently he needed to be seen walking round a Northern hospital without a mask on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh, here we go. He succeeded

[Axholme Lion]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180901/Red-Wall-Tories-turn-Boris-Commons-sleaze-debacle.html

Oh dear.

I wonder what there was that was so much more important for him to do than attending the Commons and trying to stop the shitshow in person.

Total bottle job. If i screw up at work i go straight into my bosses office and own up to it face to face and take any consequences on the chin. I generally find this takes the heat out of the situation in any case.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180901/Red-Wall-Tories-turn-Boris-Commons-sleaze-debacle.html

Oh dear.

I wonder what there was that was so much more important for him to do than attending the Commons and trying to stop the shitshow in person.

Total bottle job. If i screw up at work i go straight into my bosses office and own up to it face to face and take any consequences on the chin. I generally find this takes the heat out of the situation in any case.

He did it before, when the Heathrow runway was being discussed in Parliament when he was Foreign Secretary. When Boris was Mayor he said he'd lie down in front of the of the bulldozers and stop them. To avoid having to now vote FOR it in Parliament (the alternative would have been to resign), he invented a reason and f**ked off to Afghanistan for just long enough for it to go through Parliament.

[Axholme Lion]

In the interests of balance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10181913/The-LABOUR-MPs-second-jobs-David-Lammy-earned-140-000-three-years.html

Can't be doing with Lammy. Always playing the race card but it's all one way with him.

[Axholme Lion]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10180901/Red-Wall-Tories-turn-Boris-Commons-sleaze-debacle.html

Oh dear.

I wonder what there was that was so much more important for him to do than attending the Commons and trying to stop the shitshow in person.

Total bottle job. If i screw up at work i go straight into my bosses office and own up to it face to face and take any consequences on the chin. I generally find this takes the heat out of the situation in any case.

He did it before, when the Heathrow runway was being discussed in Parliament when he was Foreign Secretary. When Boris was Mayor he said he'd lie down in front of the of the bulldozers and stop them. To avoid having to now vote FOR it in Parliament (the alternative would have been to resign), he invented a reason and f**ked off to Afghanistan for just long enough for it to go through Parliament.

Not very Churchillian behavior is it.
If the stormtroopers had come marching up Whitehall i couldn't have seen Churchill doing a bunk, however BJ would have been off like a rocket.

[drfchound]

In the interests of balance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10181913/The-LABOUR-MPs-second-jobs-David-Lammy-earned-140-000-three-years.html

Can't be doing with Lammy. Always playing the race card but it's all one way with him.

That link won’t be popular on here AL.

[Axholme Lion]

In the interests of balance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10181913/The-LABOUR-MPs-second-jobs-David-Lammy-earned-140-000-three-years.html

Can't be doing with Lammy. Always playing the race card but it's all one way with him.

That link won’t be popular on here AL.

Why not? I've put links up showing both Labour and Conservative politicians in a bad light. No favouritism here. It doesn't matter be it red or blue.

[drfchound]

In the interests of balance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10181913/The-LABOUR-MPs-second-jobs-David-Lammy-earned-140-000-three-years.html

Can't be doing with Lammy. Always playing the race card but it's all one way with him.

That link won’t be popular on here AL.

Why not? I've put links up showing both Labour and Conservative politicians in a bad light. No favouritism here. It doesn't matter be it red or blue.

I know you have shown both lots there mate, perhaps they are all the same.