War?

[River Don]

Washington is genuinely concerned about the Russian build up of troops on the Ukraine border.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/11/11/prepare-russian-invasion-ukraine-us-warns-european-allies/

Then there are all the shenanigans on the Poland/Belarus border.

And what would the Chinese do if Russianwalked into Ukraine?

Interesting times.

[Axholme Lion]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

[Filo]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

[Ldr]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

Which would be in this case???

[SydneyRover]

Here's some more on the subject

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/11/russia-military-buildup-troop-ukraine/

[Axholme Lion]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

Like the rest of the spongers did during the invasion of British soil in the Falklands?
NATO is a joke and we should have been out of it years ago. Why do we always have to stick our nose in when it doesn't matter to us? Why do we always have to rub the Russians up the wrong way? Russia would make a far better ally than an enemy.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As we were in the EU at the time that must mean we were responsible too. Unless you can show what we did to try and prevent whatever you consider to be 'instigation'.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

Like the rest of the spongers did during the invasion of British soil in the Falklands?
NATO is a joke and we should have been out of it years ago. Why do we always have to stick our nose in when it doesn't matter to us? Why do we always have to rub the Russians up the wrong way? Russia would make a far better ally than an enemy.

We did bugger all when the US invaded Grenada, and that was our territory! So blaming others for not doing what we weren't prepared to do ourselves is a bit rich.

[Filo]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

Which would be in this case???

Supporting our NATO allies within the EU should a conflict arise and draw the EU in

[selby]

They will have to have a meeting to see if they can afford it first. Then sort out the order whose troops will go in first. It would be interesting if the bookies had the odds of the Russians  being back in Berlin for Easter.

[Dutch Uncle]

The EU instigated this Ukraine problem. We should not get involved.

As a NATO member we have no choice, we have to uphold our treaty obligations

Which would be in this case???

Supporting our NATO allies within the EU should a conflict arise and draw the EU in

NATO and the EU have longstanding links and cooperation procedures:

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49217.htm

[Ldr]

Both of you that’s helpful thanks

[BillyStubbsTears]

The problem is not Ukraine. There's an argument the EU or NATO should keep out if Putin decided to go for large scale military action.

The problem is Putin's justification. It's about supporting oppressed ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

If we swallow that and let him have his way, the REALLY frightening thing is if that emboldens him to start banging the same drum over the Baltic States. Which are in both the EU and NATO. Then it gets very, very dangerous.

So there's a strong argument to take action over Ukraine as a warning to go no further. Make sure Putin realises he can't swing punches without big costs. If we don't, it makes it far more likely that he thinks NATO has no stomach for a fight over the Baltic States.

[Metalmicky]

Trump and now Biden selling weaponry to the Ukraine has not helped the issue - although I can't see Putin doing anything stupid about it.... especially as Russia - for all it's size and power - has a smaller economy than Italy.  They wouldn't be able to afford/sustain a large scale conventional war for any extended period of time.

[ravenrover]

All it takes is one press of a button

[normal rules]

Uk troops being deployed in a recce role to polish border to assist.
These will no doubt be an advance party for a larger deployment .
Not good.

[Metalmicky]

Uk troops being deployed in a recce role to polish border to assist.
These will no doubt be an advance party for a larger deployment .
Not good.

The deployment of the UK military personnel is currently limited to engineering support only...

[Axholme Lion]

Who cares about the Baltic states? The Russians owe them for WW2. They were quite enthusiastic Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVTr4ziMf8

We owe them nothing.

[normal rules]

Uk troops being deployed in a recce role to polish border to assist.
These will no doubt be an advance party for a larger deployment .
Not good.

The deployment of the UK military personnel is currently limited to engineering support only...

Having been a royal engineer previously, I know what’s coming.there is a reason we used the saying “first in last out.”
This will be a pre cursor to a larger deployment.
Mark my words.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Who cares about the Baltic states? The Russians owe them for WW2. They were quite enthusiastic Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVTr4ziMf8

We owe them nothing.

Owe? We owe the Russians for the Crimean War.

[Axholme Lion]

Uk troops being deployed in a recce role to polish border to assist.
These will no doubt be an advance party for a larger deployment .
Not good.

The deployment of the UK military personnel is currently limited to engineering support only...

Having been a royal engineer previously, I know what’s coming.there is a reason we used the saying “first in last out.”
This will be a pre cursor to a larger deployment.
Mark my words.

More British lives potentially lost for no good reason.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let's sacrifice Czechoslovakia Mr Chamberlain. What could possibly go wrong?

[Sprotyrover]

Who cares about the Baltic states? The Russians owe them for WW2. They were quite enthusiastic Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVTr4ziMf8

We owe them nothing.

The Ukraine also generated SS Divisions and there is an active Nazi movement there today, but you must be aware that Stalin invaded the Baltic States in 1938' and they saw the Germans as liberators, as did the Ukrainians , it was Germanys own Slavs are Sub human mentality which precluded them from recruiting several millions into the Wehrmacht.
As it was a least a million Soviet citizens including Cossacks fought in the Wehrmacht.
Most of us born in the 50's and 60's wii recall the Ukrainian Club,Estonian Club and Latvian clubs in Wheatley. I am not casting aspersions but Churchill was able to repatriate 2.5 million Russian POW's to Stalin who turned them into 'Tarmac on the road of Bones' they were all good communists,Churchill could not repatriate a further 1 million who had all served in the Wehrmacht.

[Sprotyrover]

Ukraine is not in NATO and I do not advocate Britain getting involved in any conflict out there.Germany and her Neighbours are totally reliant on Russian Gas supplies so I don't see Merkel and co upsetting Putin. Nanny Biden needs to grow some Cojones.

[The Beast]

Trump and now Biden selling weaponry to the Ukraine has not helped the issue - although I can't see Putin doing anything stupid about it.... especially as Russia - for all it's size and power - has a smaller economy than Italy.  They wouldn't be able to afford/sustain a large scale conventional war for any extended period of time.

The UK was in talks to sell weaponry to the Ukraine a few weeks ago, don’t know what the outcome was. A bit worrying!

[Metalmicky]

Uk troops being deployed in a recce role to polish border to assist.
These will no doubt be an advance party for a larger deployment .
Not good.

The deployment of the UK military personnel is currently limited to engineering support only...

Having been a royal engineer previously, I know what’s coming.there is a reason we used the saying “first in last out.”
This will be a pre cursor to a larger deployment.
Mark my words.

Not doubting you there mate - just saying that I think we are (hopefully) treading carefully...

You parading Sunday chap.... ?

[selby]

  Sell whoever what they want and at top dollar. But stay out of it.

[normal rules]

Ursula Von de shithouse has been rattling her non existent sabre over Ukraine. She will end up mustering her Eu army to go there to what will be their demise.
At which point theceu comes begging for uk forces to help out.
I fear nato will drag us into it anyway.

[Dutch Uncle]

I fear nato will drag us into it anyway.

Just a reminder that NATO operates on a unanimous basis only, every country has a veto. So if NATO proposes an operation in support of Ukraine, the UK can veto it. This is done at the political level (Prime Minister/Defence Minister), not the military level.

For example NATO did not participate in the first gulf war in Iraq, France vetoed it. A number nations including the US and UK formed an ad-hoc coalition and went to war. However their capability to operate together was totally dependent on standing and practised NATO procedures. Thus the UK went to a war that NATO declined. On the other hand, the UK can veto any NATO action it does not want to participate in.

[normal rules]

I would love it, absolutely love it, if it came to this and we shoved two fingers up to the Eu.
I also fear our current govt, in fact any govt of the uk would welch this tho.