Snouts in Trough shock

[danumdon]

As I regularly point out, we did have a PM 13 years ago who never had his snout in the trough. There are plenty of decent politicians. If you don't vote for them, you can't complain.

Hmm, decent human being, quite possibly, decent politician, i think the jury is still out on that one.

We are talking about the same Gordon Brown who told the world he wanted to sell some gold, and then wondered why we got next to nothing for it.

The same fella who managed to destroy private pension schemes so we now have people who are desperately short of what they had originally been told they could expect.

Or is this the same guy who presided over 13 years of "soft touch" regulation of the financial services markets who then had to impersonate superman and save the world, got loads of plaudits for his "competence" whilst the world forgot about his previous cosying up to the square mile that caused the sh*tstorm in the first place.

Would this be the same decent politician you are referring to.

Don't start me on his "bigoted woman" escapade, but i do believe after that a great many people decided that he was not  someone to vote for.

I'm now hoping you didn't mean his best buddy Tony. No you didn't did you, no one could ever mean that piece of work.

Good, glad we got that straight.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DD.

You were talking about politicians' personal morals.

Then you skipped straight into a highly subjective rant over Brown's policies. Which topic do you want to discuss, because they are two separate issues.

[albie]

The thread is about corruption in the procurement process for PPE....nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I am surprised no-one has picked up on the double whammy.
Not only did we pay way over the odds for useless PPE from people who should never have been allowed to bid, but now we are having to pay (again) to dispose of this unsuitable material.

Instead of insisting that those who provided poor quality PPE pay back what they owe the public purse, they get a free pass on that.

Instead of making these people pay for disposal of their crap, the public will pay through the nose for destruction of this inappropriate dross.

Wrong on so many levels, yet no fuss!
Why not?

[drfchound]

The thread is about corruption in the procurement process for PPE....nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I am surprised no-one has picked up on the double whammy.
Not only did we pay way over the odds for useless PPE from people who should never have been allowed to bid, but now we are having to pay (again) to dispose of this unsuitable material.

Instead of insisting that those who provided poor quality PPE pay back what they owe the public purse, they get a free pass on that.

Instead of making these people pay for disposal of their crap, the public will pay through the nose for destruction of this inappropriate dross.

Wrong on so many levels, yet no fuss!
Why not?

There has been plenty of fuss about it albie.

[albie]

Well Hound,

Nowt done, that I can see!
They have got away with it, and Bozo and his tribe have shown no interest in correcting their massive fraud on the public finances.

Shameful IMHO.

[drfchound]

Well Hound,

Nowt done, that I can see!
They have got away with it, and Bozo and his tribe have shown no interest in correcting their massive fraud on the public finances.

Shameful IMHO.

Agreed but to say there has been no fuss isn’t correct.
Type “PPE contracts scandal” into Google and there are lots of articles having their say about this.


With regards to nothing done, I found this at the top of the list,

In January 2022, the High Court ruled that the use of the VIP lane had been unlawful, following a legal challenge by The Good Law Centre over the awarding of PPE contracts to two companies. But the High Court also ruled that the companies were "very likely" to have been awarded contracts anyway.18 Jan 2022

[danumdon]

DD.

You were talking about politicians' personal morals.

Then you skipped straight into a highly subjective rant over Brown's policies. Which topic do you want to discuss, because they are two separate issues.

You decided to offer us up a decent politician in Mr Brown, I did say he was quite possibly a decent human being and as such bears no resemblance to what we have to put up with just now, no sane person would dispute that.

I only thought it proper to offer up the fact that being decent dosen't cut the mustard when your political choices ruins and beggars the country for 10 years.

Its like picking your mate for the football team even though he has two left feet.

[albie]

Nobody has had to pay back the money, Hound.

In normal life, if you sell equipment which is sub-standard, then it would be an offence.
You might expect trading standards to get involved, and it would be reasonable to have a refund for the price paid.

You would want your money back if you were mis-sold a piece of kit that was not up to scratch, so why are the government not prosecuting their mates who have stolen from the general public?

[drfchound]

Nobody has had to pay back the money, Hound.

In normal life, if you sell equipment which is sub-standard, then it would be an offence.
You might expect trading standards to get involved, and it would be reasonable to have a refund for the price paid.

You would want your money back if you were mis-sold a piece of kit that was not up to scratch, so why are the government not prosecuting their mates who have stolen from the general public?

I understand all of that and agree with you.
I am not arguing with you about it.
You did say there hadn’t been a fuss, which there clearly has.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The thread is about corruption in the procurement process for PPE....nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I am surprised no-one has picked up on the double whammy.
Not only did we pay way over the odds for useless PPE from people who should never have been allowed to bid, but now we are having to pay (again) to dispose of this unsuitable material.

Instead of insisting that those who provided poor quality PPE pay back what they owe the public purse, they get a free pass on that.

Instead of making these people pay for disposal of their crap, the public will pay through the nose for destruction of this inappropriate dross.

Wrong on so many levels, yet no fuss!
Why not?

Albie
Threads, like children, don't always grow up as their parents would prefer. DD extended the theme to imply pretty much all politicians were "scumbags, the lot of them.....proper thieving scum".

I profoundly disagree with that, and I think it is a very, very dangerous attitude. Because it normalises that sort of behaviour by a small number of MPs and it means that there is no incentive for MPs to behave in a principled and moral way. Which I believe most of them, on all sides, generally do. So I gave an example of a recent PM who, so far as I can see, never had his snout in the trough.

[albie]

Remember Dominic Cummings?

Well, he has tweeted that corruption extended from Johnson to the media;
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1524394482938093571

It seems like he is referring to this story covered at the time;
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/03/08/government-refuses-to-reveal-taxpayer-cost-of-secret-covid-subsidy-for-its-wealthy-press-friends/

It will be interesting to see how this develops.
The media interests involved will not be keen to tell you about all this carry on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Remember Dominic Cummings?

Well, he has tweeted that corruption extended from Johnson to the media;
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1524394482938093571

It seems like he is referring to this story covered at the time;
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/03/08/government-refuses-to-reveal-taxpayer-cost-of-secret-covid-subsidy-for-its-wealthy-press-friends/

It will be interesting to see how this develops.
The media interests involved will not be keen to tell you about all this carry on.

That is...I was going to say "beyond belief" but it's actually yet another example of how this lot used the cover of COVID to syphon money into the pockets of powerful friends. Truly disgusting.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It boils downs to just two words: Hush Money.

[albie]

Further comment on the runners and riders in "Bung-Gate";
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/05/11/bungs-to-billionaires-cummings-exposes-johnsons-cash-for-content-scandal/

What a sordid corrupt affair!

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Govt spokesperson quote at the end of that article is chilling.

In summary:
"WE chose which media organisations to give unaccountable money to."

In a functioning democracy, that information should be made available for all to see. Otherwise, how can voters know whether papers that run hatchet jobs on Opposition politicians in the week of a national election are just repaying their bungs?

[albie]

Good Law project reporting on the PPE snouts;
https://goodlawproject.org/revealed-the-names-of-those-who-referred-covid-testing-firms-into-the-vip-lane/

Hancockery all round!

[SydneyRover]

And if I remember correctly Albie, not a single referral from outside the tory party was accepted.

[SydneyRover]

''Innova Medical landed Covid contracts valued at £4 billion via the ‘VIP’ lane after its UK partner, a company trading under the name ‘Tried & Tested’ contacted Boris Johnson’s former advisor, Dominic Cummings''

''Only Conservative Party Peers, MPs and donors appear to be named as referrers – no politician from any other political party succeeded in referring suppliers onto the Covid testing VIP lane''

[phil old leake]

Glyn.  There was a lot of awarding of contracts without competition.  Maybe people would have preferred to have gone through the normal processes of competition while the epidemic spread and thousand / millions more people died

There have obviously been some questions asked about some of the contracts awarded but does anyone really believe that the government went out to award contracts to their mates at the expense of public safety

That is some conspiracy theory.  I actually heard that as part of the process Elvis was employed in a covert capacity to help the selection process

[SydneyRover]

You'd think that in an emergency the procurement department set up for just that. procurement would have handled, well procurement aye? wouldn't they be the specialists best able to handle that sort of work phil?

[SydneyRover]

''Matt Hancock assisted Ecolog International onto the ‘VIP’ lane after being contacted by Genix Healthcare – a company that has donated £156,000 to the Conservative Party. Hancock’s Department paid Ecolog £38m in 2021, after the Government decided not to proceed with previously contracted Covid work''

''Only Conservative Party Peers, MPs and donors appear to be named as referrers – no politician from any other political party succeeded in referring suppliers onto the Covid testing VIP lane''

[SydneyRover]

Whoa, look out there a massive five in the heart of London, it's an emergency someone call the fire brigade ....... no, no, no, call the tory party.

[phil old leake]

You’re maybe right Syd but Glynis argument is about the lack of competition.  Which doesn’t add up in this case.

If the government had gone through the usual expected competition methods then Potentially more people would have died and they would be getting slated for taking too long sorting it out.

[ravenrover]

ARCO who it appears previously supplied PPE didn't get a look in

BY ANGUS YOUNG
05:00, 18 DEC 2022UPDATED07:16, 18 DEC 2022
 

Thomas Martin, chairman of Arco
Thomas Martin was waiting for a call that would never come.

The outbreak of the Covid pandemic had plunged Britain into its gravest crisis in decades and, as the chairman of one of the country's biggest safetywear companies, he knew he could help.


Arco had £44m-worth of personal protective equipment (PPE) sitting in warehouses, including in a vast 220,000sq ft distribution centre which opened just weeks before the UK went into its first Covid lockdown. Mr Martin also knew his firm's long-established supply chain team in Xiamen, China, could quickly secure quality-assured PPE to protect health workers against a deadly and little-known virus.

What he didn't know was that a "VIP fast lane'' was being hurriedly set up which would allow certain MPs, ministers, peers, and senior NHS officials the opportunity to give companies they personally knew about priority to secure vital PPE supplies. It was a lane never destined to reach the main road into Hull.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn.  There was a lot of awarding of contracts without competition.  Maybe people would have preferred to have gone through the normal processes of competition while the epidemic spread and thousand / millions more people died

There have obviously been some questions asked about some of the contracts awarded but does anyone really believe that the government went out to award contracts to their mates at the expense of public safety

That is some conspiracy theory.  I actually heard that as part of the process Elvis was employed in a covert capacity to help the selection process

I have no problem with the government acting quickly at the time.

However, do I have a problem with companies offering the perfectly acceptable goods and expert services that were required at the time being completely ignored when speed was apparently of the essence, being as it is now the excuse for why money being thrown at inappropriate 'suppliers' in the manner it was.

I also have a problem with the government not moving in the slightest to reclaim money spent for which they did not receive the goods and/or services contracted for.

[BobG]

It was criminal fraud. Pure and simple. It was also corrupt. As I have spent decades buying supplies, emergency and none emergency, I know very well both the normal government processes and those that apply at times of crisis. There are, and there always has been ways to deal with crisis procurement needs.

What happened here complied with absolutely none of those ways. Given the general honesty and probity of Civil Servants, who must have had to create and issue these contracts, I am pretty sure ultra vires approvals had to be given and Civil Servants leaned on very heavily indeed.

This was and is criminal fraud and criminal corruption. I suspect serious bullying of staff too.

BobG

[Donnywolf]

Well worth looking at what ARCO's CEO says about the procurement of PPE , how they one of UKs largest suppliers were treated , and their proposals in case of another pandemic via a 10 point plan.

[SydneyRover]

And in combination with the above give yourself a bit of time to read this .........

NHS eProcurement Strategy

Dr Dan Poulter MP

Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Health

In August 2013, we published Better Procurement Better Value Better Care, which established a new Procurement Programme to help NHS trusts stabilise their non-pay spending so that they spend no more than they currently do by the end of 2015-16, thereby realising £1.5bn of procurement efficiencies.

There have been many previous initiatives to realise procurement but this time we mean business money for frontline care.

To ensure that these new efficiencies are sustained and further improved upon, I am announcing this NHS eProcurement strategy, which will establish the global GS1 coding and PEPPOL messaging standards throughout the healthcare sector and its supporting supply chains. Compliance with these standards will enable trusts to control and manage their non-pay spending''

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/344574/NHS_eProcurement_Strategy.pdf

''To ensure that these new efficiencies are sustained and further improved upon'' he said

Therefore 4 years before the pandemic hit, the procurement system introduced by this string of tory governments should have been the bees knees, smick and running like a well oiled clock certainly not like diarrhea.

And yet .............

''Revealed: PPE stockpile was out-of-date when coronavirus hit UK''

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-ppe-stockpile-was-out-of-date-when-coronavirus-hit-uk


 

[albie]

Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson’s Covid inquiry defence to be funded by taxpayers
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/matt-hancock-boris-johnsons-covid-inquiry-defence-funded-by-taxpayers-2053720

Good to know that we are all chipping in to cover the legal costs of the Covid bad lads.
Only right that the general public should cough for this, as we don't want our crooks out of pocket, do we?

[Filo]

Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson’s Covid inquiry defence to be funded by taxpayers
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/matt-hancock-boris-johnsons-covid-inquiry-defence-funded-by-taxpayers-2053720

Good to know that we are all chipping in to cover the legal costs of the Covid bad lads.
Only right that the general public should cough for this, as we don't want our crooks out of pocket, do we?

Aye, but lets us plebs try to get Legal Aid, or what ever its called these days and it’s a big fat no!