Brexit Dividend

[tyke1962]

I voted for Brexit and hoped for a hard Brexit.

I was wrong.

It is clear now this Brexit cannot happen without causing untold damage in Northern Ireland. We were warned of this but I always thought we could fudge it. It's clear now we can't. It is also clear there is no political appetite to prevent mass immigration into the UK, even though it is an environmental nightmare.

I now think we have to aim for some sort of soft Brexit whilst we remain in the single market. Things had moved too far, we will have to live with it. Reality bites.

I do not want to see any further political integration with the EU. I want to see the uk remain as independent as it possibly can.

Not without a mandate from the electorate surely RD ?

The electorate never gave a mandate to leave the Single Market or Customs Union!

Don't talk ridiculous man .

There's only been one national vote in which the option of leaving the SM and CU was explicitly on the table. The 2019 General Election. Only 47% of votes were cast for parties explicitly standing on the policy that we leave the SM and CU.

The question was never put in 2016. Many on the Brexit side explicitly or implicitly campaigned on the principle that we could leave the EU and stay in the SM and CU. The decision to leave the SM and CU was made by Theresa May and her alone in early 2017, with no reference to what the electorate wanted. Every opinion poll at the time showed a large majority across all parties prepared to accept a soft Brexit which meant us staying in the SM and CU.

If you are going to lecture us about democracy, you'd do well to leave your personal prejudices at the door and engage with the established facts. It is a fact that there isn't, and has never been any evidence that a majority in this country want to leave the SM and CU. But that's what we have done.

Just listen to yourself trying to fit the square pegs in the round holes to suit your agenda .

Yourself and your minions have spent the last 6 years telling everyone who'd listen that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for .

Now you've decided all of a sudden  that they did and remaining in the SM and CU was desirable .

You've also spent the last 6 years telling everyone that leavers were not only racist they were thick as mince too .

Now you've concluded that they weren't actually racist it all because they actually endorsed free movement which is the standout aspect of the SM .

Which concludes me to think that when there's a wiff in the air of what Billy wants he'll become the reasonable , democracy loving stand up member of society he likes to think he is .

The truth is Billy boy is a sore loser whose had his liberal mandate shoved up his ass more times at the ballot box than its clearly good for him .


 


I'll have no more of your neoliberal junk chat William .

Finally a word to the not so wise , if you think there's a Lord Halifax looking across the channel to do a deal then I'd think again .

If you want to see a Labour government anytime soon in some form I'd kindly suggest you stop getting all moist around the lower regions because Johnson is toast due largely in my opinion  to a Remainer plot and you can beat democracy .

You won't and you should  be very careful what you wish for .

Just about the only vote that made any  impact on this country for millions of people had better be respected .

Don't say you weren't warned .






 

[SydneyRover]

All you have to do to convince people you know what you're talking about (a big ask) is to tell those on the forum how having successive tory governments has improved the lot of the working man tyke, in your own time.

[BigH]

People need to look forward.

We are all a nation of Leavers now. Why? because, quite simply, we have left the EU. There is, no longer, any remain/leave argument.

So I find it interesting that there are those out there peddling paranoid nonsense about 'Remainer' plots, 'Remoaner' agendas and the rest of it.

I'll tell you what I am. A Rebuilder. Someone committed to the cause of rebuilding the economic damage that has been wrought by Brexit. Because that damage is substantial and it is affecting every single one of us every day. Anyone who tells you otherwise is thick, deluded or a liar. When even the Brexiteer's Brexiteer, Daniel Hannan, tells you that leaving the Single Market was a mistake you should know the game is up.

Now if that means having to build bridges with the EU so that this country can prosper economically then that, in my humble opinion, is what we should do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

You have this very odd way of avoiding every simple issue that is presented to you and pouring out a diatribe like a muck spreader on turbo mode.

I was making a very simple point of fact. No opinion. No interpretation.  I'll make it simple for you. A yes or no question. Do you agree that there has never been a democratic mandate for the leaving of the SM and CU?

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

You have this very odd way of avoiding every simple issue that is presented to you and pouring out a diatribe like a muck spreader on turbo mode.

I'll make it simple for you. A yes or no question. Do you agree that there has never been a democratic mandate for the leaving of the SM and CU?

No I don't agree .

[Ldr]

Tyke.

You have this very odd way of avoiding every simple issue that is presented to you and pouring out a diatribe like a muck spreader on turbo mode.

I was making a very simple point of fact. No opinion. No interpretation.  I'll make it simple for you. A yes or no question. Do you agree that there has never been a democratic mandate for the leaving of the SM and CU?

Firstly my position (previously stated) is that I had hoped for a softer brexit. leaving the SM and CU is stupid.

Having said that and putting opinion and what bullshit fell from politicians mouths to one side.

Logically the SM and CU are a part of the EU, therefore it follows that in a binary choice to remain or leave, that leaving the EU involved leaving the SM and CU. Do you agree BST?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

You have this very odd way of avoiding every simple issue that is presented to you and pouring out a diatribe like a muck spreader on turbo mode.

I'll make it simple for you. A yes or no question. Do you agree that there has never been a democratic mandate for the leaving of the SM and CU?

No I don't agree .

Go on then. When was the vote that gave that mandate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

You have this very odd way of avoiding every simple issue that is presented to you and pouring out a diatribe like a muck spreader on turbo mode.

I was making a very simple point of fact. No opinion. No interpretation.  I'll make it simple for you. A yes or no question. Do you agree that there has never been a democratic mandate for the leaving of the SM and CU?

Firstly my position (previously stated) is that I had hoped for a softer brexit. leaving the SM and CU is stupid.

Having said that and putting opinion and what bullshit fell from politicians mouths to one side.

Logically the SM and CU are a part of the EU, therefore it follows that in a binary choice to remain or leave, that leaving the EU involved leaving the SM and CU. Do you agree BST?

Ldr.

Simple question. Are SM members, Iceland, Switzerland and Norway members of the EU?

Your point about the interpretation of the Brexit vote is just that. Your personal interpretation. You're welcome to it of course, but it's absolutely wrong, both in law and in practice.

As I said, all the opinion polling in late 2016 and 2017 showed a very large majority (a majority that included me) in support of leaving the EU but remaining in the SM and CU. So clearly a majority in the country didn't interpret the 2016 vote result in the way you do.

[Ldr]

Included me too to be fair, bit of devils advocate from in the question but logically it does fit

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

You have this very odd way of avoiding every simple issue that is presented to you and pouring out a diatribe like a muck spreader on turbo mode.

I'll make it simple for you. A yes or no question. Do you agree that there has never been a democratic mandate for the leaving of the SM and CU?

No I don't agree .

Go on then. When was the vote that gave that mandate.

Exactly as Ldr points out .

[BillyStubbsTears]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

[tyke1962]

As I keep saying , put returning to the SM and CU in an election manifesto .

That would be my compromise , I aren't exactly going to be happy about it as I feel I've voted on this issue 6 years ago but none the less in the interests of building bridges I'll grudgingly accept it .

Any Party who were to put that in their manifesto I'd vote against them even if it meant voting Tory which would be for the first time ever .

[tyke1962]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

As I keep repeating I and clearly millions more took the referendum to mean leave the EU in its entirety .

Simple as that .

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I keep saying , put returning to the SM and CU in an election manifesto .

That would be my compromise , I aren't exactly going to be happy about it as I feel I've voted on this issue 6 years ago but none the less in the interests of building bridges I'll grudgingly accept it .

Any Party who were to put that in their manifesto I'd vote against them even if it meant voting Tory which would be for the first time ever .

And once again you avoid the question.

My take? We WILL rejoin the SM in 15-20 years when the extent if the damage you've done becomes undeniable. Would I want that now? No, because people like you and Farage and Johnson have made the topic far too dangerously divisive.

My point in this thread is to get you to face up to the fact that there never was s democratic mandate for leaving the SM. Useful idioys on the Left like you were simply used to enable a far-right coup that imposed the Brexit that IT decided the 2016 vote allowed, not mandated.

When you come to terms with that, we can start to move on. But as I've said times many, I fully understand the difficulty in doing that when you've been the mark in a sting.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

As I keep repeating I and clearly millions more took the referendum to mean leave the EU in its entirety .

Simple as that .

How many millions? How do you know?

[wilts rover]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

As I keep repeating I and clearly millions more took the referendum to mean leave the EU in its entirety .

Simple as that .

Well this guy certainly didn't:

https://news.sky.com/video/footage-shows-boris-johnson-supported-eu-single-market-10318469

[tyke1962]

As I keep saying , put returning to the SM and CU in an election manifesto .

That would be my compromise , I aren't exactly going to be happy about it as I feel I've voted on this issue 6 years ago but none the less in the interests of building bridges I'll grudgingly accept it .

Any Party who were to put that in their manifesto I'd vote against them even if it meant voting Tory which would be for the first time ever .

And once again you avoid the question.

My take? We WILL rejoin the SM in 15-20 years when the extent if the damage you've done becomes undeniable. Would I want that now? No, because people like you and Farage and Johnson have made the topic far too dangerously divisive.

My point in this thread is to get you to face up to the fact that there never was s democratic mandate for leaving the SM. Useful idioys on the Left like you were simply used to enable a far-right coup that imposed the Brexit that IT decided the 2016 vote allowed, not mandated.

When you come to terms with that, we can start to move on. But as I've said times many, I fully understand the difficulty in doing that when you've been the mark in a sting.

I don't need any lessons from yourself Billy on how I should see things or what I should have or have not interpreted .

It played out like it should have played out when we voted in 2016 .

The only group who have created the divisiveness in this country are people such as yourself who have spent the last 6 years calling Leavers racist and as thick as mince .

Your group have created a divide that won't ever be repaired at least in my lifetime with your poison .

You talk of Culture Wars and yet on this matter your the biggest war mongerers of them all .

Well done .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.
Feel free to find an example of me ever calling all Leave voters racists and thick as mince.

Take your time.

Then come back and we can discuss where you get these ideas from.

[SydneyRover]

Even one of your heroes Tyke has recently admitted the best thing that could be done with bexit is to delay it. For all the bluster from your leader, johnson hasn't got it done by a long chalk, there is a long way to go yet and none of it is looking good.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way Tyke. If leaving the SM and CU was an automatic consequence of the Brexit vote, why did May wait until Jan 2017 to announce that this was now our policy?

[tyke1962]

Even one of your heroes Tyke has recently admitted the best thing that could be done with bexit is to delay it. For all the bluster from your leader, johnson hasn't got it done by a long chalk, there is a long way to go yet and none of it is looking good.

Heroes ??

That's interesting given I didn't emigrate to the other side of the world to settle in a country that's had a right wing government for 20 of the last 26 years and with it some of the most restrictive immigration policies in the world .

Makes you wonder who your heroes are Syd .

[tyke1962]

By the way Tyke. If leaving the SM and CU was an automatic consequence of the Brexit vote, why did May wait until Jan 2017 to announce that this was now our policy?

Because she was a Remainer with Mogg's stick up her ass .

[tyke1962]

Tyke.
Feel free to find an example of me ever calling all Leave voters racists and thick as mince.

Take your time.

Then come back and we can discuss where you get these ideas from.

Plenty of words to the affect Billy over the last 6 years .

[SydneyRover]

Even one of your heroes Tyke has recently admitted the best thing that could be done with bexit is to delay it. For all the bluster from your leader, johnson hasn't got it done by a long chalk, there is a long way to go yet and none of it is looking good.

Heroes ??

That's interesting given I didn't emigrate to the other side of the world to settle in a country that's had a right wing government for 20 of the last 26 years and with it some of the most restrictive immigration policies in the world .

Makes you wonder who your heroes are Syd .

Maybe you're not a racist but you appear to be a xenophobe tyke and therefore not acceptable here so that bit's academic.

[SydneyRover]

''NI Protocol: UK override bill 'won't break international law'''

''New legislation to change post-Brexit trade arrangements will not break international law, the Northern Ireland secretary has said.

Brandon Lewis said he was confident the changes would be lawful.

The UK government is due to publish legislation on Monday that would allow ministers to override parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-61774429

If it's legal and going to be acceptable to all parties it make you wonder why they didn't do it earlier instead of the lying and deceit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.
Feel free to find an example of me ever calling all Leave voters racists and thick as mince.

Take your time.

Then come back and we can discuss where you get these ideas from.

Plenty of words to the affect Billy over the last 6 years .

Go and dig some out. Then we can talk.

[drfchound]

Serious question here but wasn’t the vote back in 2016 to leave or remain?
I don’t recall there being an option available to leave but to stay in the CU and SM.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

As I keep repeating I and clearly millions more took the referendum to mean leave the EU in its entirety .

Simple as that .

Simple being the operative word.

[drfchound]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

As I keep repeating I and clearly millions more took the referendum to mean leave the EU in its entirety .

Simple as that .

Simple being the operative word.

What was the other option Glyn, apart from remain of course.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So Tyke, given the fact that Iceland, Switzerland and Norway are inside the SM and outside the EU, do you still want to stick to that line that the 2016 vote was an explicit  mandate to leave the SM?

Run it by me how that logic goes.

As I keep repeating I and clearly millions more took the referendum to mean leave the EU in its entirety .

Simple as that .

Simple being the operative word.

What was the other option Glyn, apart from remain of course.

Leave the EU but remain in the Single Market and Customs Union. I'd have been extremely happy with that as an outcome of a No vote I'd been warning about the consequences of leaving the SM and CU well before the referendum took place.  But I got told I didn't know what I was talking about, or smeared as being Project Fear.

That was the other option, and it wouldn't have been contrary to the Referendum result.