Brexit Dividend

[BillyStubbsTears]

Given the apparent strength of feeling on this issue and the fact that none of the main national parties are advocating rejoining the EU currently I'm very pleased to see this Rejoin EU party contesting elections.

They are fulfilling an important democratic function in allowing people (such as the 277 of voters in Chester) who are unhappy with this area of Government policy to make their feelings known.

Of course it's interesting and enlightening to see how well they perform especially in safe seats such as Chester where voters may be more tempted to vote for single issue parties/involve themselves in 'protest' votes.

Anyone on here likely to vote for them?

No of course people won't bite for them. Because electorally they are an irrelevance. I don't understand why anyone would ever even note their existence.

This is what I don't get about Leave supporters.

You won.

You have the world you wanted.

You wanted  Remain supporters to accept that we left.

We HAVE accepted that we left. Labour's policy is now to try to make the best of the situation they will inherit. The country YOU wanted us to be. The country we now are.

I agree with Labour's policy. I think we have made a catastrophic mistake in leaving the EU, but that decision is now made. I think it WILL be overturned within my lifetime when enough people see how damaging it has been. But that's not going to happen for a decade at least. And reopening the issue as a live electoral one is not in the country's interests until the electorate demands it.

Which they will. I'm a decade or so.

I don't understand why Leave supporters have to keep baiting people on this issue. Unless of course, they define themselves by baiting people who disagree with them. They've won everything they wanted. Why not concentrate on making a success of your victory?

[Branton Red]

I wasn't trying to 'bait' anybody on this.

I was simply pointing out that none of the national parties are campaigning to rejoin the EU currently and given how big an issue this is/has been that it's good for our democracy that a party is standing on that platform so people can express their view if they feel so strongly on it.

It's up to the electorate whether they are an irrelevance or not.

UKIP were dismissed as an irrelevance as recently as the 2010 GE.

[BillyStubbsTears]

UKIP had backing from several prominent multi-millionaires. And a lot of useful support from Russian Psy-Ops.

The Rejoin party is a bunch of well-meaning nobodies, backed by nobody.

[Branton Red]

UKIP had backing from several prominent multi-millionaires. And a lot of useful support from Russian Psy-Ops.

The Rejoin party is a bunch of well-meaning nobodies, backed by nobody.

As their offer is currently unique they will get the backing and the votes to become electorally relevant if enough people feel strongly enough about the platform on which they're standing.

[wilts rover]

Aren't the Green Party campaiging on a rejoin agenda?

Presumable the Rejoin Party is for people who want to rejoin the EU but don't like the environment - so I wont be voting for them!

[Branton Red]

Aren't the Green Party campaiging on a rejoin agenda?

Presumable the Rejoin Party is for people who want to rejoin the EU but don't like the environment - so I wont be voting for them!

Hi Wilts

I did google the Green Party's policy on this before describing Rejoin EU as having a unique offer. Green policy is: -

"The UK should make a speedy return to the free movement of people between the UK and the European Union and re-join the customs union, to lessen the problems resulting from Brexit, say the Green Party. Members at the Party’s conference in Harrogate also voted in favour of pursuing a policy to re-join the EU “as soon as the political situation is favourable and the right terms are available [1].” " www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2022/10/02/greens-call-for-re-joining-the-eu-“as-soon-as-political-situation-is-favourable”/

So yes in favour of rejoining per se but more nuanced and not outright immediately as Rejoin EU are advocating.

[scawsby steve]

Given the apparent strength of feeling on this issue and the fact that none of the main national parties are advocating rejoining the EU currently I'm very pleased to see this Rejoin EU party contesting elections.

They are fulfilling an important democratic function in allowing people (such as the 277 of voters in Chester) who are unhappy with this area of Government policy to make their feelings known.

Of course it's interesting and enlightening to see how well they perform especially in safe seats such as Chester where voters may be more tempted to vote for single issue parties/involve themselves in 'protest' votes.

Anyone on here likely to vote for them?

No of course people won't bite for them. Because electorally they are an irrelevance. I don't understand why anyone would ever even note their existence.

This is what I don't get about Leave supporters.

You won.

You have the world you wanted.

You wanted  Remain supporters to accept that we left.

We HAVE accepted that we left. Labour's policy is now to try to make the best of the situation they will inherit. The country YOU wanted us to be. The country we now are.

I agree with Labour's policy. I think we have made a catastrophic mistake in leaving the EU, but that decision is now made. I think it WILL be overturned within my lifetime when enough people see how damaging it has been. But that's not going to happen for a decade at least. And reopening the issue as a live electoral one is not in the country's interests until the electorate demands it.

Which they will. I'm a decade or so.

I don't understand why Leave supporters have to keep baiting people on this issue. Unless of course, they define themselves by baiting people who disagree with them. They've won everything they wanted. Why not concentrate on making a success of your victory?

BST, what's the title of this thread, and who are asking the question, Remainers or Leavers? I don't see how responding to whingers can be described as "baiting".

[Glyn_Wigley]

Have you responded with any examples of the benefits though?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

It's not baiting to discuss the problems that emerge as Brexit beds in.

In a sensible, mature democracy, you don't switch off after a vote and say that's history over. You consider the consequences. You weigh up evidence. You think about whether the right decision has been made. You ask yourself which politicians broadly predicted correctly how this would turn out. Which ones got it wrong.

Because if you don't do that, what on earth do you base you opinions on next time you need to make a big choice.

So discussing the pros and cons as they emerge is absolutely vital. It's genuinely sad that an intelligent person like you doesn't get that, and sees evidence of Brexit having a seriously negative effect on the economy as "baiting".

It's not. Baiting is making daft posts about irrelevant side issues to try to wind the other side up.

[Branton Red]

Baiting is making daft posts about irrelevant side issues to try to wind the other side up.

The Brexit referendum was secured in a period, when all major UK parties were pro-EU, because an effectively single issue Eurosceptic party started winning a significant share of the vote.

Now when the major parties accept staying in the EU it is IMO a pertinent question to ask whether a single issue Europhile party advocating rejoining the EU can have similar success in reverse.

You may consider this an irrelevant side issue - but I don't.

So your accusation that I was baiting you or winding you up by joining in this discussion, which I honestly wasn't, is based on a wholly false assumption.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Branton.

Apologies if I wrongly assumed you were baiting. Tyke does and was and if I misread the intention of your post then I apologise.

Trouble is, that means I have to take your post seriously. In that you're genuinely comparing this new party to UKIP, and suggesting that support for such a party might be a driver of a policy of rejoining the EU. Like UKIP was the other way round.

That, forgive me for being blunt, is daft. For this reason.

UKIP existed at a time when, not only were the POLICIES of both major parties to stay in the EU. The BELIEF of the majority of key people in both parties was that staying in the EU was best for Britain. UKIP set themselves up with the intention of dragging the Overton Window of the right wing of our politics over to the Eurosceptic position. They did that, not by convincing the key Tory figures that their argument was right. They did it by providing an electoral challenge. Apart from an ultranationalist section of the Tory party, and a few who stood to line their own pockets and advance their careers, few in the Tory party actually believed that UKIP were right. So UKIP had to be a threat to them to force the Tories to accommodate their ideas.

The Tories en masse embraced Euroscepticism not because they believed in it. Because they had no option


The current position is not remotely like that.

Labour's key people do not believe that Brexit is good for Britain. But equally, there is no appetite (currently) in the country to reopen the issue. So Labour has to have a policy of accepting Brexit and trying to make the best of it. While still knowing that "the best" will still be a lot worse than staying in the EU would have been.

Labour knows there is a long game here. It knows that, when the fact of Brexit's damage to the country becomes incontrovertible, there will be a national desire to re-engage with the EU. My best guess is that will be 10-15 years down the line. Then it will be politically possible to open the question again.

But here's the thing. Labour doesn't need to be convinced of that by a pressure party on its flank, playing the mirror image role that UKIP played. Because it doesn't need its core beliefs converted. So there is absolutely no purpose to that new party. It's a total irrelevance.

I thought that much was obvious, hence my assumption that you were baiting by bigging up the importance of the new party.

Oh and one last point. My saying Labour giesnt believe Brexit is good, doesn't imply that the Labour Govt from 2024 omwsrds will actively try to make the UK economy fail. That would be morally abhorrent and stupid in their own self interests. They will do everything they can to make the UK economy work under Brexit. But whatever they do, it will become increasingly apparent that Brexit is not helping. And then public opinion will increasingly be open to looking into the issue again.

[ravenrover]

The German Ambassodor made it clear that anyone joining the EU would have to accept the Euro as their currency, can't see that happening over here

[Branton Red]

Branton.

Apologies if I wrongly assumed you were baiting. Tyke does and was and if I misread the intention of your post then I apologise.

Thank you for your response and your apology.

Don't worry I take no offence in you calling my views daft so long as you are able to justify that with reasoning. Which you have done.

I won't go into the detail of your response. A lot of what you say is correct. However I disagree with your conclusion. I won't repeat myself as to why. If you think that makes my opinion daft then hey ho.

I think you just need to bear in mind before making accusations or insults that your view of the world may seem obvious to you but other people view the world differently - yes perhaps in your eyes daftly.

Therefore when people come to different conclusions to you on policy or on how to vote it's not necessarily because they're too stupid to make the right decision, or worse are acting out of self-interest or malice. It more often than not will be that their world view is different to yours leading to them having different conclusions than you.

People didn't vote Brexit because they saw it as you do and wanted to be part of an economic "death cult", just because elderly voters vote Tory doesn't automatically make them "detestable", neither does me expressing some interest in how the Rejoin EU party perform mean I'm "baiting" you.

Of course you're totally justified in critiquing people's opinions and indeed their world view and expressing the view that they're wrong. That's part and parcel of civilised debate in a democratic country.

I'd just suggest you be careful in making the assumption that everybody views the world in the same way you do before throwing out accusations or insults.

[wilts rover]

It's a question all serious political parties are going to have to face at some point - how will they improve the economic performance of the UK?

Good luck at finding an answer that doesn't involve 'having a closer relationship with the EU'. Irrspective of whether or not there is a minor pressure group/political party named Rejoin.

Just as all parties have had to tackle environmental issues, irrespective of how the Green Party is doing.