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Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 220792 times)

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bigbadjack

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Ukraine
« on January 24, 2022, 03:55:44 pm by bigbadjack »
Just heard Johnson describe the situation in Ukraine as “Painful,violent and bloody business” if the Russians invade….. this is terrifying isn’t it?



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Filo

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1 on January 24, 2022, 04:03:44 pm by Filo »
If think Russia and China will invade Ukraine and Taiwan at the same time, and North Korea will be in on the act and possibly Iran

mugnapper

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2 on January 24, 2022, 04:23:08 pm by mugnapper »
And every time we turn the thermostat up, we are funding Putin's war machine. I thought he would invade over Xmas/New Year.
I see he's also got Naval manoeuvres off the Irish coast coming up.

mugnapper

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #3 on January 24, 2022, 04:24:40 pm by mugnapper »
Just heard Johnson describe the situation in Ukraine as “Painful,violent and bloody business” if the Russians invade….. this is terrifying isn’t it?

Are you sure he wasn't talking about Sue Gray's inquiry??

normal rules

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4 on January 24, 2022, 04:52:54 pm by normal rules »
I can see the headline now.
Another party at no10 the night Russia invaded Ukraine.

River Don

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5 on January 24, 2022, 06:10:59 pm by River Don »
And every time we turn the thermostat up, we are funding Putin's war machine. I thought he would invade over Xmas/New Year.
I see he's also got Naval manoeuvres off the Irish coast coming up.

If he's going to do it, he's got to do it very soon, another month, the spring thaw sets in and the whole region becomes an impassable, deep, muddy quagmire. That's what did for Napoleon and Hitler.

I'm not sure what parking a load of old dreadnoughts in the Atlantic is all about either.

River Don

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #6 on January 24, 2022, 06:16:24 pm by River Don »
If think Russia and China will invade Ukraine and Taiwan at the same time, and North Korea will be in on the act and possibly Iran

I'd be surprised. I think the US would play Ukraine like they did Afghanistan. Let them roll in and then fund a draining proxy war over the long term.

Taiwan I think is a different matter. I think the US is much more directly commited to that. Hence the link up with Australia.

Axholme Lion

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #7 on January 25, 2022, 08:16:22 am by Axholme Lion »
It's up to the West to keep out of the Russian sphere of influence. There's only one side causing this and it's not Russia.

River Don

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #8 on January 25, 2022, 12:06:35 pm by River Don »
Ukraine is now a democratic country.

It is they who are wanting to decide their own future.

If Putin decides he wants to force them back into a Russian empire, I think he'll find he has a fight on his hands.

Axholme Lion

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #9 on January 25, 2022, 01:20:00 pm by Axholme Lion »
Ukraine is now a democratic country.

It is they who are wanting to decide their own future.

If Putin decides he wants to force them back into a Russian empire, I think he'll find he has a fight on his hands.

It's the equivalent of having an independent Scotland having Russian military forces based there.
If the Ukraine is so democratic why did they feel the need for the EU backed revolution. The west should give Putin what he wants in return for a better deal on gas supplies, everyone's a winner.

River Don

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #10 on January 25, 2022, 02:09:10 pm by River Don »
Ukraine is now a democratic country.

It is they who are wanting to decide their own future.

If Putin decides he wants to force them back into a Russian empire, I think he'll find he has a fight on his hands.

It's the equivalent of having an independent Scotland having Russian military forces based there.
If the Ukraine is so democratic why did they feel the need for the EU backed revolution. The west should give Putin what he wants in return for a better deal on gas supplies, everyone's a winner.

Everyone's a winner?

The Ukrainians aren't. I doubt the rest of Europe would be in the face of an emboldened dictator like Putin.

In this case its right to oppose the Russians, not directly but by funding and supporting Ukraine. Its always right to oppose dictators, fascists and communists, extremists of every hue because ultimately in doing so we're protecting our own interests.

Axholme Lion

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #11 on January 25, 2022, 03:02:39 pm by Axholme Lion »
Ukraine is now a democratic country.

It is they who are wanting to decide their own future.

If Putin decides he wants to force them back into a Russian empire, I think he'll find he has a fight on his hands.

It's the equivalent of having an independent Scotland having Russian military forces based there.
If the Ukraine is so democratic why did they feel the need for the EU backed revolution. The west should give Putin what he wants in return for a better deal on gas supplies, everyone's a winner.

Everyone's a winner?

The Ukrainians aren't. I doubt the rest of Europe would be in the face of an emboldened dictator like Putin.

In this case its right to oppose the Russians, not directly but by funding and supporting Ukraine. Its always right to oppose dictators, fascists and communists, extremists of every hue because ultimately in doing so we're protecting our own interests.

So you think it's ok to antagonize the bear by parking NATO on their front door step?

River Don

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #12 on January 25, 2022, 03:08:40 pm by River Don »
I think it's right to protect the borders in the face of a Russian military build-up.

ravenrover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #13 on January 25, 2022, 03:08:57 pm by ravenrover »
As I heard pn the radio
He got away with annexing The Crimea
A "weak" PONTUS politically speaking
Nato not singing out of the same hymn book
Gas supplies
The time is right for Putin to chance his arm and test the water

Filo

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #14 on January 25, 2022, 03:22:06 pm by Filo »
Ukraine is now a democratic country.

It is they who are wanting to decide their own future.

If Putin decides he wants to force them back into a Russian empire, I think he'll find he has a fight on his hands.

It's the equivalent of having an independent Scotland having Russian military forces based there.
If the Ukraine is so democratic why did they feel the need for the EU backed revolution. The west should give Putin what he wants in return for a better deal on gas supplies, everyone's a winner.

Everyone's a winner?

The Ukrainians aren't. I doubt the rest of Europe would be in the face of an emboldened dictator like Putin.

In this case its right to oppose the Russians, not directly but by funding and supporting Ukraine. Its always right to oppose dictators, fascists and communists, extremists of every hue because ultimately in doing so we're protecting our own interests.

So you think it's ok to antagonize the bear by parking NATO on their front door step?

How is Ukraine wanting to be a free and democratic state antagonising the Bear, they should be able to freely negotiate treaties with whoever they want without the Bear sticking their oar in, what does Putin really fear from NATO, which is a defensive organisation?

sha66y

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #15 on January 25, 2022, 03:24:55 pm by sha66y »
Let’s have a big bloody battle, get some of this hardware tested and redefine the landmass , my mk10 is being soaked in warm suds as I type…..too much blm,snowflake and PC has weakened the minds………probably won’t get the call! Lol

Metalmicky

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #16 on January 25, 2022, 03:35:25 pm by Metalmicky »
The US are considering taking out the same actions they did to Huawei and invoking the the foreign direct product rule into supply contracts that require the buyer to enforce US export control:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/01/23/russia-ukraine-sanctions-export-controls/

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #17 on January 25, 2022, 03:43:48 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Putin has nothing to offer the Russian people but a vision of a historic Greater Russia like they had under Stalin or Peter the Great.

You can see the sort of folk he pitched it at because we have some here. Doesn't matter how shit your life is as long as you're better than some other bas**rd.

So he's sabre rattling. Seeing if the West had resolution to stand up, or whether it will slunk off and let him extend his control.

The West certainly won't send fighters to Ukraine. But if Putin goes in, we will smash his economy. And then it really could get nasty if he ups the ante and heads for Estonia.

normal rules

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #18 on January 25, 2022, 04:05:27 pm by normal rules »
I like the sound of an overhaul of Companies House to root out Foreign investment in the uk via the use of shell Companies.
Mind you, that would cause some chaos too, as most high level organised crime in the uk use this too.
Large swathes of the most expensive real estate in London is owned by Russian Oligarchs.but they have their fingers in govts pies no doubt too.
Too many people in too many positions of power stand too much to lose for this to happen.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 04:25:53 pm by normal rules »

Filo

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #19 on January 25, 2022, 04:17:51 pm by Filo »
I wonder what our Russian representative in the House of Lords thinks of all this?

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #20 on January 25, 2022, 05:05:53 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
We've become infested by influential Russian kleptocrats. I don't know how you start clearing the stable.

selby

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #21 on January 25, 2022, 05:34:32 pm by selby »
  The first lesson is have a fully independent fuel supply and don't be reliant on others, we were once the only country in western Europe with an excess of power with oil, natural gas and oil.
 The greens have had their way, we are now s existing with a large proportion of the population in fuel poverty, and prices being forced up by the market.
  Meanwhile and sit down lads China have just produced another record months coal output at Over 374 million tons in December a year on year increase of 7.8% and increasing.
   And still the thicko's in this country will sit in the road, but I notice not while they are cold and damp best wait until at least spring.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #22 on January 25, 2022, 06:56:23 pm by Sprotyrover »
  The first lesson is have a fully independent fuel supply and don't be reliant on others, we were once the only country in western Europe with an excess of power with oil, natural gas and oil.
 The greens have had their way, we are now s existing with a large proportion of the population in fuel poverty, and prices being forced up by the market.
  Meanwhile and sit down lads China have just produced another record months coal output at Over 374 million tons in December a year on year increase of 7.8% and increasing.
   And still the thicko's in this country will sit in the road, but I notice not while they are cold and damp best wait until at least spring.
I just can't get my head around the mind set of these self righteous 'WOKE twits who find it amusing to disrupt the economy and think it's a joke, they need to take some positive action against the two mega Polluters China 27% of all world Pollution and The USA 11% of total world pollution. The 'WOKES' need to put their shoulders to the Cart and take on the real problem polluters.

drfchound

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #23 on January 25, 2022, 07:00:09 pm by drfchound »
  The first lesson is have a fully independent fuel supply and don't be reliant on others, we were once the only country in western Europe with an excess of power with oil, natural gas and oil.
 The greens have had their way, we are now s existing with a large proportion of the population in fuel poverty, and prices being forced up by the market.
  Meanwhile and sit down lads China have just produced another record months coal output at Over 374 million tons in December a year on year increase of 7.8% and increasing.
   And still the thicko's in this country will sit in the road, but I notice not while they are cold and damp best wait until at least spring.
I just can't get my head around the mind set of these self righteous 'WOKE twits who find it amusing to disrupt the economy and think it's a joke, they need to take some positive action against the two mega Polluters China 27% of all world Pollution and The USA 11% of total world pollution. The 'WOKES' need to put their shoulders to the Cart and take on the real problem polluters.

Is a slow boat to China on their agenda then.

wilts rover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #24 on January 25, 2022, 08:51:15 pm by wilts rover »
What would happen if Russia invades the Ukraine? - A lengthy study of some of the options and scenarios

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-01-21/day-after-russia-attacks

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #25 on January 25, 2022, 08:57:33 pm by SydneyRover »
  The first lesson is have a fully independent fuel supply and don't be reliant on others, we were once the only country in western Europe with an excess of power with oil, natural gas and oil.
 The greens have had their way, we are now s existing with a large proportion of the population in fuel poverty, and prices being forced up by the market.
  Meanwhile and sit down lads China have just produced another record months coal output at Over 374 million tons in December a year on year increase of 7.8% and increasing.
   And still the thicko's in this country will sit in the road, but I notice not while they are cold and damp best wait until at least spring.
I just can't get my head around the mind set of these self righteous 'WOKE twits who find it amusing to disrupt the economy and think it's a joke, they need to take some positive action against the two mega Polluters China 27% of all world Pollution and The USA 11% of total world pollution. The 'WOKES' need to put their shoulders to the Cart and take on the real problem polluters.

the forum thinking person's go-to list

https://www.campaigncc.org/climate_change/sceptics/hall_of_shame

Metalmicky

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #26 on January 26, 2022, 11:15:09 am by Metalmicky »
It seems like an uneven fight if you compare the military might of Russia against that of the Ukraine.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-vs-ukraine-military/31664931.html

However, the injection of ammunition, weapons, and other military supplies into the Ukraine are not unsubstantial and Russia would be wise not to underestimate the determination to fight within the Ukraine...  After all of this dick-waving it may just turn out to be Putin man-spreading to let everyone know that Russia still has clout....... let's hope so.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #27 on January 28, 2022, 10:36:28 pm by Sprotyrover »
It seems like an uneven fight if you compare the military might of Russia against that of the Ukraine.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-vs-ukraine-military/31664931.html

However, the injection of ammunition, weapons, and other military supplies into the Ukraine are not unsubstantial and Russia would be wise not to underestimate the determination to fight within the Ukraine...  After all of this dick-waving it may just turn out to be Putin man-spreading to let everyone know that Russia still has clout....... let's hope so.
So Boris Has been daft enough to 'Poke the Bear' as a consequence the Russian Navy will be staging a live firing excercise 150 miles off the Coast of Eire, they can and will do it, Eire is not a member of NATO and its fishery protection Sqadron of tubs are useless, plus the two or three pre millennium Helicopters are not up to it!
Dem Der Ship launched Cruise missiles have a 600 mile range, so that's GCHQ and London both nicely in range.

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #28 on January 29, 2022, 12:01:27 am by SydneyRover »
I see the US is concerned that there is too much Russian money in and washing through Londongrad that sanctions against the main players in Moscow won't have much effect.

Filo

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #29 on January 29, 2022, 10:39:03 am by Filo »
Johnson going to have a chat with Putin, war it is then!

 

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