Ukraine

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Some soldiers are still in there. Isn't it the wounded who have been allowed out?

[River Don]

"evacuation".

Funny isn't it, the relentless twisted language used by western media that somehow escapes the critical awareness of some folks.

In every other instance this is referred to as a surrender. The soldiers are currently in process of an exchange. Ie they are captured, following their surrender. Yet not one headline reflects this.

The Guardian headline says their fate is unclear.

In the first paragraph it says they surrendered.

It goes on to say the Ukanians want a prisoner swap but it's not clear this will happen. They might even be tried and executed.

The men understood this might be their fate which is one reason why they held out for as long as they possibly could.

Yet more senseless slaughter would not be a surprise in this war.

[BobG]

I really don't understand why we are getting so hung up about propaganda. It's bloody obvious. Every war since the year 0, and before, has had propaganda as an integral part of the conflict. Read Caesar. Read Livy. Read Polybius. Everybody knows what side Britain is rooting for in the current conflict. So it is inevitable, natural, that our organs of mass media will tend to use language, and reporting, that reflects that bias. To do otherwise would doom their circulation or audience figures - and get them in wrong with the powers that be as well. Intelligent people understand this.

BobG

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Talking of propaganda. I didn't realise what division was being sewn in Germany!

https://youtu.be/zjW_6ArOQ1w

[Bristol Red Rover]

Some soldiers are still in there. Isn't it the wounded who have been allowed out?

I think it's the wounded first but all Ukraines will be removed unless those remaining change their minds. The prisoner exchange looks like it will be partial at most, with some being tried for war crimes in Russia. One of the reasons they have held out till now. Not looking good for any of them with Nazi related tattoos.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Quite ironic. A fascist dictatorship unleashing the biggest European war in 75 years, ostensibly to de-Nazify a handful of opponents.

[SydneyRover]

Quite ironic. A fascist dictatorship unleashing the biggest European war in 75 years, ostensibly to de-Nazify a handful of opponents.

In an area they supposedly already had control/ or more accurately an area waiting to be 'liberated'

[River Don]

Vladimir Putin is “weaponising” global food supplies by stealing grain and destroying agricultural equipment as part of his war in Ukraine, Western officials have said.

The Kremlin is believed to be dismantling infrastructure needed for food production and blocking ports that are vital in shipping cereals out of the country, which is known as the “breadbasket of Europe”.

Officials fear Russia has embarked on a “deliberate policy” of disrupting food supplies, sparking a global crisis and raising the prospect of starvation in developing countries.


It looks like the cost of living crisis is only going to deteriorate.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Quite ironic. A fascist dictatorship unleashing the biggest European war in 75 years, ostensibly to de-Nazify a handful of opponents.

That handful, exactly how many are you claiming?

[SydneyRover]

against a population of 44million I guess a handful would be reasonable description

[BillyStubbsTears]

against a population of 44million I guess a handful would be reasonable description

Precisely. 2% of Ukranian voters supported far right parties in their last election. Of course their are far right militiamen fighting. Just like there were in our army in WWII. Launching a war to "de-Nazify" Ukraine is an obscenity. Especially coming from a fascist dictator. It would have been like Hitler justifying the Blitz because he had to wipe out Oswald Moseley's Blackshirts.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

"evacuation".

Funny isn't it, the relentless twisted language used by western media that somehow escapes the critical awareness of some folks.

In every other instance this is referred to as a surrender. The soldiers are currently in process of an exchange. Ie they are captured, following their surrender. Yet not one headline reflects this.

The Guardian headline says their fate is unclear.

In the first paragraph it says they surrendered.

It goes on to say the Ukanians want a prisoner swap but it's not clear this will happen. They might even be tried and executed.

The men understood this might be their fate which is one reason why they held out for as long as they possibly could.

Yet more senseless slaughter would not be a surprise in this war.

Yes, you wonder whether Putin will use this opportunity to declare "We got the Nazis" and make an example of them in Russian courts accusing them of war crimes. One can only speculate about the verdict and their sentences.

Now Ukraine have tried the first Russian soldier (who pleaded guilty) and is yet to be sentenced, it's likely Russia will find a way of punishing Ukrainian soldiers for defending their country.

Meanwhile, a very key battle going on at the moment where Russia are trying to encircle Sveredonetsk and Lyschansk, which are key for Russians objective of taking the whole of Donbass.

https://youtu.be/W3pExFIep_o

Also, Russians also getting smarter with drones spotting some of the new howitzers recently delivered.

https://youtu.be/WnCOM6DfCA4

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh dear.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1527092111195226114

[SydneyRover]

not on his mind then?

[wilts rover]

Crowd at a big gig in St Petersburg suddenly burst out into an anti-war chant. I have said many times Putin will only ever be brought down by the Russian people turning against him, is it starting?

https://twitter.com/Billbrowder/status/1528122626438221824

[Bristol Red Rover]

There have been protests there for a while now. Half? of a crowd of 2k? mainly teenagers is almost less dramatic than an BNP demo.

From what I hear from my Russian neighbour who has half a family in Russia, half n Ukraine (most of those currently in the neighbours house at the mo), the support in Russia for the war is pretty solid and passionate.

[wilts rover]

There have been protests there for a while now. Half? of a crowd of 2k? mainly teenagers is almost less dramatic than an BNP demo.

From what I hear from my Russian neighbour who has half a family in Russia, half n Ukraine (most of those currently in the neighbours house at the mo), the support in Russia for the war is pretty solid and passionate.

With the utmost respect to your neighbour, from that video, of people who are actually in Russia, who know they face arrest and jail for expressing any anti-war sentiment and will be the ones called up to do the fighting if Putin widens conscription - its not.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There have been protests there for a while now. Half? of a crowd of 2k? mainly teenagers is almost less dramatic than an BNP demo.

From what I hear from my Russian neighbour who has half a family in Russia, half n Ukraine (most of those currently in the neighbours house at the mo), the support in Russia for the war is pretty solid and passionate.

With the utmost respect to your neighbour, from that video, of people who are actually in Russia, who know they face arrest and jail for expressing any anti-war sentiment and will be the ones called up to do the fighting if Putin widens conscription - its not.

My neighbours family is in Russia, actually in Russia.

As you suggest, it's helpful to consider demographics that could be called up. The most likely being those who have done their national service, rather than ones called up now.  Many, most, in that audience won't have done their national service. Also, half of the audience are girls.

Of course the western news will plug objections to the war, and there is definitely some objection there, but from what I can see it isn't remotely at the level that is threatening Putin - that may well change. The same goes for the huge demos we have over here that are largely unreported in the west, tho are over reported in Russia and elsewhere as beng threats to the UK government.

It's all about the establishment controlling information. It's more or less the same everywhere. Note the immediate attempted blocking of Russian sympathetic media here, and vice versa in Russia.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Russian-sympathetic media you say? Should we have welcome Leni Riefenstahl and Lord Haw Haw onto our airwaves in 1938 to tell us why the invasion of the Sudetenland was justified?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Don't be daft. Poor analagy on many levels.We're not at war with Russia - our governemnt may be by proxy along with it's cohorts, but we're not. There is a significant iussue there wth the history and politics in the lead up - not that I think that excuses Putin with the action he has taken, but it's there. Why shouldn't it be discussed, likewise NATOs expansionism, Ukraine firing on civilians etc etc.

Brings up an interesting issue though. This "fighting for freedpm" that our gradfathers  etc did - was that including censorship of news? We already have that with the BBC etc, but attempting to seal off news that is clearly disadvantageous to our extablishment is plain censorship. I believe that is one of the actions of an authoritarian governement, which we do know this Tory lot aspire to being despite their rhetoric, and Labour too for that matter if they can get away with it, and in recent times they plainly have done.

But yes, if we were actually at war it's a different matter, and I say *we*, not our establishment.

[danumdon]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/22/western-resolve-set-tested-key-us-eu-figures-want-ukraine-cede/


Looks like certain underhand forces are now spreading their tentacles and trying to prepare the ground for Ukraine to accept compromise positions and cede territory in the war with the Russians.

Step forward sly back stabbing French and German internal political interests, trying to whip the Americans into accepting that the better long term strategy is to appease Putin in The Dombas and the south of Ukraine, allowing them to tie Crimea into a a lager block of territory.

Whats the point of the "west" trying to stick together and defeat the Russians once and for all with this proxy effort when you have sly and conniving French and German interests to have to deal with.

I always knew these bas***d's would try to swing it around to whats in their nations interest first and foremost. Good luck to the Ukrainians in trying to hold out for long enough to frustrate the Russians before these shits muddy the waters.

One of the leading reasons why a majority in this country wanted to leave their club is demonstrated right there.

[danumdon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/ukraine-russia-ceasefire-deal-territory-donbas

Lets just Hope the Ukrainians get their wish to continue to reclaim their territory in the right manner.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR.
Who were we at war with in 1938?

Your lazy dismissal of the analogy speaks volumes.

[SydneyRover]

Senior Russian diplomat at UN defects over war in Ukraine – reports

A Russian diplomat has resigned from his position in the United Nations, saying he has “never been so ashamed” of his country and condemning Vladimir Putin for his “aggressive war” against Ukraine, according to reports.

Boris Bondarev, a counsellor of the Russian mission to the UN office in Geneva, criticised the Russian foreign ministry – where he has worked for 20 years – for its increasing “level of lies and unprofessionalism”, the rights watchdog UN Watch reports.

In a statement shared by the organisation’s director, Hillel Neuer, Bondarev said:

For twenty years of my diplomatic career I have seen different turns of our foreign policy, but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on February 24 of this year. The affressive war unleashed by Putin against Ukraine, and in fact against the entire Western world, is not only a crime against the Ukrainian people, but also, perhaps, the most serious crime against the people of Russia, with a bold letter Z crossing our all hopes and prospects for a prosperous free society in our country.

Those who conceived this war want only one thing – to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity. To achieve that they are willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes. Thousands of Russians and Ukrainians have already died just for this.

Guardian Live

[River Don]

Blimey

[BobG]

That almost sounds too good to be true.

If he's a middle aged bloke, which he must be, then he has just sacrificed his career, his pension, his home, his family and maybe even his friends and his own life. Is that credible?

BobG

[mugnapper]

Sky News app has the letter in full. He absolutely goes to town on Putin and especially Lavrov.
Unfortunately I’m too inept to do a link so if you’re interested, have a look at the Live update feed on Sky News.

[BobG]

Gosh. Then he is a very, very brave man. I wish him well with all my heart.

BobG

[danumdon]

I would imagine he's already sounded out an asylum position in the States before he went full rogue on his administration.Will be watching his back for the rest of his days.

[glosterred]

Is this the one people are referring to?

https://twitter.com/HillelNeuer/status/1528668629482541057